XChateau Wine Podcast

Nearly two decades after filming Somm, Jason Wise, Chief Creative Officer of Somm TV and Director of the Somm movies, has a deep view of wine in the media.  Jason shares his perspective on what types of media moves the needle, how to get involved as a brand, the ever changing landscape of media itself. Detailed Show Notes: Update from the last 4 years: filming tons of food & wine content around the world, a couple theatrical releasesSomm TV: video streaming services, partners w/ wineries and wine regions, Jason founded it to not have to ask permission to film storiesA lot of people find Somm TV from YouTubeWine industry evolution (2010-2026): a lot more grapes and too much wine; beginner wine content no longer needed; market needs to sort a few things out; tariffs had huge impact on American wineries (some wineries were 20% Canada)Wine helps create more connection and conversationMedia filming rights have changed a lot, used to have a pay a place to film, now they are happy to be a part of itSideways worked because it was unexpected and was done on its own termsStreaming wars haven’t helped media gain influence, only a few shows that have had an impact (e.g. - Game of Thrones, White Lotus); there’s so much content, it’s hard to break through, now niche is kingNiche segments sometimes just talk to their niche, don’t bring in new audiencesDocumentaries tell stores people didn’t know existedNetflix used to license shows, now they want to own everything, leads to less originality, just make what’s worked beforeYouTube feeds media, creators build a following, then produce more standard mediaWine industry’s role in the mediaNobody wants to watch commercialsHard to push media to do what you want it to doWine should be the drink to push in PR (e.g. - Chateau Angelus in James Bond films has had an impact)Wine cameos in movies can build awarenessWinery engagement with mediaInfluencers are like “maintenance,” believes their influence is waningGet the product in TV shows / moviesNeed the “magic” in the bottle, be known for something (e.g. - Taylor Swift and Sancerre, fans figured it out)Celebrity helps bring a platform if the product had good product-market fit (e.g. - Aveline and Cameron Diaz)Media effectiveness goes in cycle, what works changes over time and circles back; need to try 10 things for 1 to workBelieves regional marketing is criticalPodcasts are part of people’s everyday routine and movies stick with you, TV is like the “bulk wine” of mediaWineries should put budget towards media, spread the money aroundMany wineries have exited sponsorships and are losing consumer awareness

As the wine world stumbles through difficult times (in early 2026), Karen MacNeil, author of The Wine Bible and co-founder of Come Over October, believes part of the disconnect stems from time.  The fastness of the modern, social media fueled world and the slowness of wine.  Her solution is to focus the narrative of wine with well-being and wine’s long-standing role as a beverage that brings people together.  Detailed Show Notes: Karen’s background: author of The Wine Bible, writer, speaker, teacherWorried that a change in culture, to a faster one with social media (took off in 2012 when Facebook hit 1B active users and >50% of the population had smart phones), has left wine, a slower product, behindWhite wine’s appeal may be partly that it implies fastnessWine is slower to create (can take 3-5 years) and to consume (high acid, tannins for reds)Larger selection of beverages may also be competing for wine’s share, including functional beverages that are marketed as “mindful”Wrote an article, “Is wine really in the alcohol business?” on how wine is more than alcohol, but threaded in the culture of food, history, religion, and artBelieves wine should promote the notion of wellbeing vs health, which includes better relationships from sharing wine with peopleStarted Come Over October w/ Gino Colangelo and Kimberly Charles, PR professionals2025: reached 2.9B media impressions, had 1,400 retail store promotions, raised $250kSister campaign is Share and Pair Sundays - to go beyond October, involve food, and help engage more restaurantsAll campaigns need a time, a reason, and a behaviorSeneca Lake Wine Trail doing Share and Pair SundaysTexas Wine Country doing “Come Over October Y’all”Most impactful event was an interview with Pink and sports figures, showing wine connects people across industriesThe wine industry will need to invest to get more people involved, the “Got Milk” campaign spent $23M in the first year

The on-premise side of wine analytics has traditionally been a black hole, not covered by other data services.  Somm.ai changed that when they launched in 2021, now covering ~100k on-premise accounts in the US alone.  The richness of data allows Somm.ai to help their clients benchmark, prospect for new accounts, and so much more.  Jeremy Hart, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Somm.ai, explains how it is more manpower vs a platform to accelerate on-premise sales.  Detailed Show Notes: Jeremy’s background: restaurants, wholesale, importingTX became a major wine market during ‘08 Global Financial Crisis; it took the allocations from NY and CASomm.ai founding: end of 2019 was originally an app for people to find restaurants with wines they wanted to drink; during the pandemic (2020) pivoted to turning restaurant wine lists into retail shops (sold ~$700k of wine); did some smart menus; 2021 launched current iteration of on-premise sales analyticsCategorizes restaurants, bars, & hotels in US (100k accounts), Canada, Europe (6 countries, Germany largest w/ 3k accounts), Singapore; data updated every 2 weeksJackson Family is longest client - w/ NBA partnership, Somm.ai developed target lists around NBA stadiums to sell into~70 clients of all sizes (many large suppliers, e.g. - Terlato, Vintus, Concha y Toro, wholesalers, importers)General use cases include: Benchmarking vs peers (accounts, placements)Prospecting and lead generation (can see accounts that other distributors cover)Identify brand extensionsHelp with pricingIdentifying sales pitches for national accountsROISome clients have moved up a lot in benchmarking ranksSave money on travel, focused on the right marketsCan save manpowerPricing ~$30-70k/year avg, includes unlimited training and unlimited seats, US and Canada (other geographies are an upcharge)Product roadmap - expanding to more geographies, which can be temporary exclusivity for early partners

It was long assumed that a love of wine runs in the family.  Not so, according to new research conducted by ARENI Global on how young consumers get into fine wine.  Pauline Vicard, Executive Director of ARENI, gets into the findings of their new study titled “The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine Wine.”  From the shrinking middle class to the motivations of wine collectors to what drives women to embrace fine wine, the research and this conversation are chalk full of insights into how wine can attract the next generation of wine lovers.  Detailed Show Notes: Fine wine trends (March 2026)A trend towards more collaboration and consolidationEntering the age of precision distribution, after precision winemaking and viticultureShrinking middle class is shrinking the middle sector of wineSome retailers in the UK doing well by changing delivery policy (e.g. - free next day delivery at 1 bottle, new events relevant for new consumers)New ARENI Study: The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine WineStudied several major markets: Paris, London, NYC, Singapore, Shanghai, & Hong KongResearch process: expert led roundtables, questionnaires, & interviews / focus groups with consumers and tradeDid focus groups in Paris & London of wine student groups (e.g. - LSE, Kings College); LSE’s group is 600 members and do 50 events/year with a £400 budget and 50 students attending each oneStudy key insightsPool of fine wine drinkers is shrinking; demographics driven (less young people, wealth concentrating)Routes that create fine wine consumers (e.g. - tech and banking) are replacing internships w/ AIResults very similar across markets (a surprise)It’s friends, not family that drive wine interestComplexity of what’s not understood and the pursuit of knowledge being worthy and fun drives wine interestVisibility and ease of access to wine are importantRestaurants are still important, but the high cost is an issueCollectors are different from buyersCollectors have a reward system (e.g. - dopamine) from the chaseEveryone has a genetic disposition to collect, but activated in 30-35% of the US populationCollecting makes people overbuy, which requires a secondary marketReducing prices after en primeur can erode the trust in the reason to collectThe French have a negative association with being a collectorYoung people often spend ~10-15 hrs/week searching and researching wine when they are collectorsDifferences are bigger between genders than nationality; wine collectors defined when 26-35, when women often start a family or build their career and don’t have the time to collectOnly men reported a benefit from wine knowledge at workEvents are a good way to test if people can be engaged with the brandCollectors learn about producers not regions (Asia different because certifications are important); want to know which producers, why they are important, and where they can be purchasedTo trade up in wine, their community needs to trade up with themNeed to sell a community to drink with, not just the winesWomen historically have less propensity to become collectorsOften have less access to money and drink 3-4x less than menSimilar at the beginning (44% of <25 year olds engaged in wine, goes down to 7% around 40); it’s not an interest problem, it’s a conversion problemWomen overindex in education, events, and the importance of communityThey never ask for a female only space, they don’t mind age or gender, but need to share interests (e.g. - similar spending power and interests)Successful events have thoughtful placement to create connections b/w people, including to be seen by interesting people; requires knowing all the people who comeNext for ARENI: restaurants business models and consumer expectations for fine wine and an update on US distribution

Even though it has been making wine for nearly 5 millenia, Israel is a wine region still finding its way in modern times.  Josh Greenstein, Director of the Israeli Wine Producers Association (“IWPA”), is on a mission to promote “Brand Israel,” which is all about new discoveries.  From winemaker stories to creating new grape varieties to mimic the descriptions in The Bible, Israel is making its mark on the global wine scene.  Detailed Show Notes: Josh’s background: 5th generation in the wine business, including NY liquor stores and distributionIsraeli Wine Producers Association overview~40 wineries (of 450 total) are membersMission is to promote “Brand Israel”Founded by the Herzog family, of importer Royal Wine CorpFunded by the wineries and Royal Wine CorpIsraeli wine overviewMaking wine for ~5,000 yearsWines were exported to the RomansGrowing Israeli food scene has helpedGrape varieties: Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay, many others including ancient grapes and new grapes, e.g. - Argaman, a genetically engineered crossing of Carignan and Souzao, designed to have a “crimson” color as referenced in The BibleClimate: lots of micro-climates, Mediterranean climate, lots of farmingSoil types: varied, including volcanic, terra rosa, limestoneTends to be tech forward in farming and winemaking practicesWine consumption in IsraelGrowing, consume most of domestically produced wineBig use for religious purposesCreated wine tourism industry to grow wine knowledge in the countryUS is #1 export market by far, majority in the NE (top markets - NY, NJ, Miami (fastest growing), LA, Chicago, TX); followed by Canada, Europe, South AmericaTotal Wine has an Israeli wine section different from Kosher section“Brand Israel”About discovery, stories of the wineries and something differentGood QPRConnects to multiple religions (e.g. - Easter is a large wine consumption event and Easter is about Israel)People often respond saying “Israel makes wine?” (e.g. - at South Beach Food & Wine)All wines in the group are kosher, but kosher is not the focus, just a beneficial attributeJudaism has lots of holiday and events with wine integrated (e.g. - Shabbat)Majority of Israeli wine sales in the US are off-premise, trying to push more on-premiseIsraeli politics can go both ways, some people don’t buy and others want to support

Driven by passion, Erni Loosen, Managing Director of Loosen Bros, has spun up countless joint ventures in his career.  All with no business plan or goal of making money, but a greater purpose of driving a Renaissance for Riesling and out of passion for Riesling and Pinot Noir.  Erni goes into the qualities that make for good partnerships and some pitfalls to avoid. Detailed Show Notes: Erni’s background: Managing Director Loosen Bros, Dr Loosen Estate in Mosel; took over in 1987Loosen Bros overview & history~200 years in the familyOnly Riesling in the Mosel (Dr Loosen)1996 bought Villa Wolf in Pfalz1999 JV w/ Chateau Ste Michelle (Eroica), largest Riesling producer in US2003 founded Loosen Bros USA in Portland OR as an import company for Loosen wines, then imported other people’s wines; desired to have more flexibility (e.g. - deciding on lower margins due to tariffs)2005 Appassionata (OR Pinot Noir)2009 purchased 40 acres in Willamette Valley, planted vineyards, and built winery2015 JV w/ Telmo Rodriguez (a big Riesling fan) in Rioja w/ Lanzaga2017 1st vintage of JV w/ Peter Barry in Clare Valley Australia to see if Oz Rieslings were always limey; tried 3,000L barrels - Wolta Wolta2019 took full ownership of J Christopher in ORBurgundy purchased part of Vieux Chateau de Puligny-Montrachet to start Perron de Mypont and started a negoce2023 founded Dr Loosen Int’l ChinaA great wine starts w/ an idea in your headFor successful JVs, need the right partners with real passion and the same visionNeed to see the spirit from the beginningHas never had a business planJVs are not one way, but learnings on both sides (e.g. - Erni learned how to delay ripening in WA)Erni’s goal for JV’s was not making money, but trying to create a Renaissance for Riesling, which used to be the most expensive wine in the world ~1900, but got a low quality image w/ Blue Nun and LiebfraumilchMost partnerships structured as 50/50 and handshake deals (except Eroica is 40% Loosen, 60% Chateau Ste Michelle, which is also the only contract)Key challenge of JVs are when two visions don’t fit, had one that went bankruptWould love to do an Alsatian Riesling at some point

If as many Asians drank wine as the average American, we’d have ~100,000 more wine drinkers. And if Asian restaurants had wine lists at the average rate, we’d have ~5,000 more restaurants with wine lists. This is one of the foundations of the Asian Wine Association of America (“AWAA”), whose mission includes bringing wine to Asian cultures, of which food is central. Part of bridging this divide is exploring Asian food and wine pairing. One of AWAA’s board members, Sunny Liao, Co-founder and CEO, and Philippe Venghiattis, Cellar Master of Vinus Club, delve into their extensive experience pairing wine with Asian foods. Detailed Show Notes: Sunny’s background: exposed to wine from 6, wine educator with Lady Penguin in China, Wine MBA, wine consultant for restaurants, board member of AWAAPhilippe’s background: exposed to wine from 3, worked in wine auctions, then went to UC Davis and is a vineyard manager and winemaker as well as operations for Vinus ClubVinus Club is a wine club focused on introducing wine to Asian consumers, including a wine dinner seriesAsian food: texture is a big focus, meals often have a diverse assortment of food at once, often need more than 1 wine to pairWine w/ at least 5-6 years of age are more accessible to a wider array of flavors and spice vs the pure fruit of young wines, more complexity helps for pairingSpicy foods work well w/ wines w/ a denser mid-palate that buffer the alcoholPhilippe’s first challenge with Asian food and wine was at UC Davis with spicy hot potEastern palates tend to be more sensitive to acid and more into texture (e.g. - the texture of Petite Sirah attractive to Eastern palates)Pairing suggestionsAged Alsatian whites (15-20 years old) work well, they have texture, complexity, and mid-palate to buffer the spiceSmargad Riesling w/ a few years of age pairs well w/ Singaporean foodBraised duck and BaroloFlor de Muga Blanco’s aging process adds textureOrange and volcanic wines work for younger winesChampagne w/ a large amount of reserve wineJura wines a natural fit for a lot of categoriesNicolas Joly’s Coulee de Serrant w/ ~15 years of age often pairs well, but also shows a lot of variationHardest pairings: Korean food; often has a hint of sweetness, hard to balance w/ wineIndian cuisine

With ~1M registered users, CellarTracker (“CT”) is one of the core consumer apps for wine lovers.  When Eric LeVine, Founder & CEO of CT, was last on XChateau in late 2021, they had just taken on investment to expand the business.  Eric gives us a rundown of what has happened since, like launching a new mobile app and adding AI features, as well as what is coming down the pipe.  Detailed Show Notes: CT now at 1M registered users, with monthly active users +40-50% since 2021Team has grown from ~10 employees during Covid to ~25Launched new mobile app 1.5 years ago (2023)~10k reviews in Apple App Store / Google Play with a 4.9* ratingMore modern, visualFor subscribers: enhanced drinking windows, tasting notes, AI features (chatbot for wines you like, pairings, etc…)3x users registering on monthly basis vs 2021Continue to support old app to be more customer centric and work out bugs in the new appImproved data analytics; overhauled drinking windows, valuation of wines, “what’s poppin” identifying when people are opening winesWinery analytics: trialed with a couple wineriesNo obvious product market fitWineries interested in what other wineries were in cellars with theirsOne CA winery had 40% of their mailing list on CTHistorically did no marketingDoing more social media, email engagementSome paid search, App Store optimization is the biggest driverGet feedback on what improve with Frill, users can vote on improvements needed and pair it with product usage and usage flowsNew features on the horizonStarting in-app notificationsDeveloping research tool to identify what wines to buy and how much to pay (aggregates price data from reports and ~50% of users report price paid)Making AI embedded natively in the applicationAdd via receipt feature automatically adds (using AI) wines to cellar if you email add@cellartracker.comProduct pricingWas early adopter of “freemium” modelPeople were confused by historic “voluntary payment,” only 1/1000 users could say what features are paidAdded more value to paying users (e.g. - drinking windows, AI features; including some things that used to be free), doubled user pay rateSuggesting what to pay is more hidden nowCan get an annual subscription on website, monthly on Apple App Store w/ 2 week free trial (Apple takes a cut and must cancel through Apple)Consumer trendsPeople looking for values (e.g. - they ask “what’s a cheaper version of x?”) and diversity of winesNot seeing a lot of changes in user patterns (e.g. - consumption)