XChateau Wine Podcast

It appears on some wine labels, winemakers speak lovingly about them, and there are organizations focused on them.  “Old Vines” is a loosely defined term that is often associated with quality in the wine industry.  Seghesio, a historic Californian winery, has a strong focus on old vines with its focus on Zinfandel and Italian varietals.  Andy Robinson, Seghesio’s winemaker, lays out the economics of growing and selling old vine wines. Detailed Show Notes: Andy’s background: grew up in the Finger Lakes (NY), studied Chemistry, worked at Charles KrugSeghesio overviewFounded 1895 by Piedmont immigrant Eduardo SeghesioAlexander Valley & Russian River (Sonoma)~120k cases / year; 160 acres plantedMostly Zinfandel (oldest 1895 at Home Ranch) and Italian varieties (Sangiovese, oldest from 1910)Defines old vines as 50+ years vs Old Vine Conference defines as 35+ years, conventional vineyards normally have 20-25 year lifespanMust be an excellent vine (both in yield and quality) to become an old vineBenefits of old vinesOften head trained, umbrella shape gives natural shading, don’t need trellis supports, requires less maintenance late in the season; overall about the same cost as trellised (head trained harder to mechanize)More flavor compounds (a Spanish company researched this)More textural and complex flavorsCosts of old vinesExpect lower yields (sets less fruit)Big cuts from pruning can have bigger impact on vinesNeed to have a focus for old vines to be successful, which is why there are many single vineyard old vines; consistent ownership important for thisPeople are often willing to pay more for old vine wines, wine needs to be goodFor deciding when to replant old vines: wines not fantastic anymore, yields drop <1 ton/acre, people not willing to pay enough to keep itMore diversity of varietals coming with old vines as late ‘70s plantings hit 50 years, historically mostly ZinfandelOld vine organizationsOld Vine Conference (started ~2020, Sarah Abbott in London): very internationalHistoric Vineyard Society (started ~2010, Morgan Twain Peterson, Mike Officer, others): non-profit to catalogue old vine sitesCore benefit of organizations is engaging wine writers and getting more publicity for old vines

When Shekar Sathyanarayana, founder of Nalla, began visiting wineries in Santa Barbara and talked about Indian food, winemakers loved the food, but had never paired it with wine.  Now, Nalla has brought Indian food and wine pairing to over 100 events hosted at wineries and other venues and Shekar shares what he has learned about match Indian food and wine. Detailed Show Notes: Shekar’s background: 1st generation South Indian, grew up in Kansas, was a talent agent and lawyerNalla foundingStarted as Indian food gatherings (2016) to explore different Indian cuisinesShekar knew nothing about wine, started driving to Santa Barbara wine country and learningWineries said they’d never paired wine and Indian cuisine beforeNalla experiences, officially launched 2023Where South Asian cuisines and wine industry meet, includes culture (live music, dance, decor - e.g. - Thali plates, plates with small bowls in them)Done 100+ events at wineries and 3rd party venues1st winery partner was Brecon Estate in Paso Robles, learned Albarino and samosas work well togetherDoes 4 entrees, each from a different region, coursed w/ 2 wine glasses side by side, and data captured on preferences~25-50 guests at each eventLarge market opportunity: 2.1B South Asians globally, ~6M in the US; highest household disposable income (~$100k for South Asian, ~$150k for Indians); very food forward and know little about wineIndian wine~200 wineries in IndiaGrow varieties to sell (e.g. - rose), haven’t figured out what grows best yet2 harvests / yearFocus is educating people about wine, not yet integrated w/ food4 components to “spicy” foodCapsaicin - the heat in chilis, gives a burning sensation; can be offset by milk/dairy which has casein, a protein that binds to capsaicinAromatics (e.g. - coriander, cumin, cinnamon, clove, cardamon) - no heat, but lots of smell and tasteSichuan pepper - gives a tingle, drying, numbing sensation (not common in Indian food)Piperine - key compound in black pepper, common in South Indian cuisine; can often flatten winesIndian food & wine pairing - match aromatics w/ wine, heat comes secondCapsaicin and alcohol make the heat worse, try to stay <14% abv with spicyYounger, tannic reds often fight Indian cuisineWhite wines pair well w/ aromaticsWhen pairing with multiple dishes simultaneously, go back to aromatics, stick w/ whites (e.g. - Pinot Gris, Riesling, Viognier, maybe Chardonnay)When there’s more weight, dairy, can pair with some reds, particularly lighter (Grenache, GSM, Pinots)Creamy tomato based sauce, which alleviates some heat, can go w/ higher alcohol redsAged reds can pair well, as tannins are more resolvedRegional Indian cuisine - 28 states in India, each region has its own cuisineNorth Indian known for meats (goat, lamb, chicken), dishes have more weightSouth Indian mostly vegetarian (lentils, daal, dosa, sambar), heavier on spices, more heat; sparkling wines work wellCoastal (Kerala, Goa) more fish and seafood~50% of India is vegetarianBengali has heavy mustard paste, Sauv Blanc and Riesling work wellAndhra uses both red and green chilis, makes it hard to pair w/ wineTop 5 Indian dish pairingsChicken Tikka Masala, created by British, not traditional Indian; pairs w/ off dry Riesling, light Pinot, oaked ChardsButter Chicken, chicken cooked in tandoor, more diary and cream, milder spices; Viognier pairs wellSamosas, breaded fried potatoes often w/ chutney (mint-cilantro, tamarind), sparkling pairs well (Cava, Prosecco)Biryani, a very emotional dish for Indians, saffron rice, chunks of meat or vegetarian, highest degree of aromatic complexity; Rose pairs wellSaag Paneer, spinach and cheese, cream, ginger, and garlic; Sauvignon Blanc, herbaceousness pairs well, acid helps

After retiring twice, Chris Baker, President of Brassfield Estate, was lured back in by a unique opportunity to build one of the world’s largest monopoles in the High Valley AVA of Lake County, California. Its unique volcanic terroir is now being scaled nationally with a 10 year contract and national alignment with Southern Glazers. Chris describes the best practices in working with distributors and partnering together to create a successful brand, built on trusted relationships. Detailed Show Notes: Chris’ background: hospitality, distribution, ran wineries, has tried to retire twice and come back due to his love of wineBrassfield overviewHigh Valley AVA, in Lake County CA100% estate grown and produced 5,000 acre property, 500 acres planted, up to 2,000 plantable65k sf cave, only 15% utilizedGrows 17 varietals (10 in distribution), best known from Sauvignon Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Pinot NoirRetail price points - $16-17 whites, $25-30 redsNational partnership with Southern GlazersWas in 14 states, now in 45Perks to being nationally aligned - a little more attention, assigned trade development managerHave a 10 year contract (normal is 2-3 years) w/ automatic renewalSouthern chose Brassfield because of its scalability (potential to be biggest monopole in the world) and they didn’t have a national product for Lake CountySales team being built out9 division managers, 1 national accounts on-premisePicked up experienced people (e.g. - from Vintage, others) who know a lot of accounts and not afraid to put a bag on their shouldersTeam needs to know distributors feet on the street all the way to state leadersKPIs to drive velocity (getting several products in the right accounts, volume goal, rate of sales, accounts sold goal, 50/50 on- and off-premise split)Small, medium wineries need to do more DTC, social media in new distribution environmentNeed to identify brand’s uniquenessDistributors and accounts want to know what brand will do to create pullFocus on top moving accounts: top 250 restaurants, top retailers, share accounts b/w distributor and winery, need to understand what brands are important for the distributors (to not cannibalize sales)“We’re in the relationship business”National account restaurants - often have 3rd party agencies (e.g. - Patrick Henry, IMI) to work through, hard to get direct contact, can meet some people at Vibe conference, trade conferences, Aspen Food & WineNeed to learn about customers and get to know each otherBest practice: being present, everyone is trying to get mindshare of distributors, can’t only go once every 6 months, need frequent communications, involvement, and call on accounts direct w/ or w/o distributorDistributors have big notebooks of incentives (some suppliers have big ones), they cherry pick what they think will be easiest to accomplishThe top down approach can work, if distributor leads push down priorities to teamCreating consumer awareness (marketing, social, PR) can get attention w/o incentive programs, Brassfield hired a PR agency in NY and a marketing company in NapaBiggest success stories: Lazy Dog - national account w/ Eruption Red Blend, participates in their annual summitSugarfish Sushi - Sauvignon Blanc is in all 17-18 locationsAnnual Volcano Camp (started 2025)Brassfield responsible for High Valley AVAPartnered w/ SommJournal to bring somms from around the countryDug soil pitsInvestment in education builds brand ambassadors, believes it is high ROI

As one of the winners of the infamous 1976 Judgement of Paris, Chateau Montelena has a rich history to be proud of.  To optimize that legacy, Montelena’s President and Winemaker Matt Crafton has been embarking on more of a luxury strategy for the brand, reducing grocery and chain presence and working towards pricing growth over volume.  With the 50th anniversary of the Judgement in Paris and the wine market in extreme flux, Montelena is doubling down on the values that made it victorious.  Detailed Show Notes: Matt’s background: wine production for 23 years, Economics degree, started at Montelena in 2008Chateau Montelena overviewFounded 1882 in Calistoga, NapaShut down during Prohibition, resurrected in 1972 by Barrett familyFamous for 1973 Chardonnay which won the 1976 Judgement of Paris tasting (50th anniversary in 2026)Mostly produces Cabernet Sauvignon and ChardonnayProduces ~35k cases/yearMajority of $ DTC, volume is wholesaleExport not big, focus of growth last 2-3 yearsA full-time sales team not viable, so moved to partnership with Wilson Daniels as national sales agent beginning Jan 2026Has a Director of National SalesDistributes to all 50 statesTraditionally skewed off-premise, moving more to on-premise; old agency went a lot of chain retailKPIs from 30-40% on-premise to 60-70% on-premise; get out of grocery and be allocated in chain retailWants to use wholesale to build status, get in the right accounts (not necessarily 3 Michelin star restaurants - they don’t move many bottles)Found retail accounts not holding price which would make restaurants and DTC members not buy the winesJudgement of Paris story usageUse social media to get the story to end consumersDavid over Goliath story resonates with peopleNeed to discuss how Montelena still upkeeps the principles and values that led to the winKeeping the story fresh requires mapping today’s actions (e.g. - large replant underway) to the original values (e.g. - curiosity, taking risk)Wine critic influence has waned over last 15-20 years, but scores still have a big impact to certain types of buyersImportant to understand the ripple effects of wholesale decisionsTools to navigate wholesale - pricing, mapping market allocations to market potentialManaging distributors - need to build direct relationships, get people out to the winery to see and feel the brandRelationships critical to navigating a challenging wine marketGoal is to grow through price, not volume

Nearly two decades after filming Somm, Jason Wise, Chief Creative Officer of Somm TV and Director of the Somm movies, has a deep view of wine in the media.  Jason shares his perspective on what types of media moves the needle, how to get involved as a brand, the ever changing landscape of media itself. Detailed Show Notes: Update from the last 4 years: filming tons of food & wine content around the world, a couple theatrical releasesSomm TV: video streaming services, partners w/ wineries and wine regions, Jason founded it to not have to ask permission to film storiesA lot of people find Somm TV from YouTubeWine industry evolution (2010-2026): a lot more grapes and too much wine; beginner wine content no longer needed; market needs to sort a few things out; tariffs had huge impact on American wineries (some wineries were 20% Canada)Wine helps create more connection and conversationMedia filming rights have changed a lot, used to have a pay a place to film, now they are happy to be a part of itSideways worked because it was unexpected and was done on its own termsStreaming wars haven’t helped media gain influence, only a few shows that have had an impact (e.g. - Game of Thrones, White Lotus); there’s so much content, it’s hard to break through, now niche is kingNiche segments sometimes just talk to their niche, don’t bring in new audiencesDocumentaries tell stores people didn’t know existedNetflix used to license shows, now they want to own everything, leads to less originality, just make what’s worked beforeYouTube feeds media, creators build a following, then produce more standard mediaWine industry’s role in the mediaNobody wants to watch commercialsHard to push media to do what you want it to doWine should be the drink to push in PR (e.g. - Chateau Angelus in James Bond films has had an impact)Wine cameos in movies can build awarenessWinery engagement with mediaInfluencers are like “maintenance,” believes their influence is waningGet the product in TV shows / moviesNeed the “magic” in the bottle, be known for something (e.g. - Taylor Swift and Sancerre, fans figured it out)Celebrity helps bring a platform if the product had good product-market fit (e.g. - Aveline and Cameron Diaz)Media effectiveness goes in cycle, what works changes over time and circles back; need to try 10 things for 1 to workBelieves regional marketing is criticalPodcasts are part of people’s everyday routine and movies stick with you, TV is like the “bulk wine” of mediaWineries should put budget towards media, spread the money aroundMany wineries have exited sponsorships and are losing consumer awareness

The on-premise side of wine analytics has traditionally been a black hole, not covered by other data services.  Somm.ai changed that when they launched in 2021, now covering ~100k on-premise accounts in the US alone.  The richness of data allows Somm.ai to help their clients benchmark, prospect for new accounts, and so much more.  Jeremy Hart, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Somm.ai, explains how it is more manpower vs a platform to accelerate on-premise sales.  Detailed Show Notes: Jeremy’s background: restaurants, wholesale, importingTX became a major wine market during ‘08 Global Financial Crisis; it took the allocations from NY and CASomm.ai founding: end of 2019 was originally an app for people to find restaurants with wines they wanted to drink; during the pandemic (2020) pivoted to turning restaurant wine lists into retail shops (sold ~$700k of wine); did some smart menus; 2021 launched current iteration of on-premise sales analyticsCategorizes restaurants, bars, & hotels in US (100k accounts), Canada, Europe (6 countries, Germany largest w/ 3k accounts), Singapore; data updated every 2 weeksJackson Family is longest client - w/ NBA partnership, Somm.ai developed target lists around NBA stadiums to sell into~70 clients of all sizes (many large suppliers, e.g. - Terlato, Vintus, Concha y Toro, wholesalers, importers)General use cases include: Benchmarking vs peers (accounts, placements)Prospecting and lead generation (can see accounts that other distributors cover)Identify brand extensionsHelp with pricingIdentifying sales pitches for national accountsROISome clients have moved up a lot in benchmarking ranksSave money on travel, focused on the right marketsCan save manpowerPricing ~$30-70k/year avg, includes unlimited training and unlimited seats, US and Canada (other geographies are an upcharge)Product roadmap - expanding to more geographies, which can be temporary exclusivity for early partners

It was long assumed that a love of wine runs in the family.  Not so, according to new research conducted by ARENI Global on how young consumers get into fine wine.  Pauline Vicard, Executive Director of ARENI, gets into the findings of their new study titled “The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine Wine.”  From the shrinking middle class to the motivations of wine collectors to what drives women to embrace fine wine, the research and this conversation are chalk full of insights into how wine can attract the next generation of wine lovers.  Detailed Show Notes: Fine wine trends (March 2026)A trend towards more collaboration and consolidationEntering the age of precision distribution, after precision winemaking and viticultureShrinking middle class is shrinking the middle sector of wineSome retailers in the UK doing well by changing delivery policy (e.g. - free next day delivery at 1 bottle, new events relevant for new consumers)New ARENI Study: The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine WineStudied several major markets: Paris, London, NYC, Singapore, Shanghai, & Hong KongResearch process: expert led roundtables, questionnaires, & interviews / focus groups with consumers and tradeDid focus groups in Paris & London of wine student groups (e.g. - LSE, Kings College); LSE’s group is 600 members and do 50 events/year with a £400 budget and 50 students attending each oneStudy key insightsPool of fine wine drinkers is shrinking; demographics driven (less young people, wealth concentrating)Routes that create fine wine consumers (e.g. - tech and banking) are replacing internships w/ AIResults very similar across markets (a surprise)It’s friends, not family that drive wine interestComplexity of what’s not understood and the pursuit of knowledge being worthy and fun drives wine interestVisibility and ease of access to wine are importantRestaurants are still important, but the high cost is an issueCollectors are different from buyersCollectors have a reward system (e.g. - dopamine) from the chaseEveryone has a genetic disposition to collect, but activated in 30-35% of the US populationCollecting makes people overbuy, which requires a secondary marketReducing prices after en primeur can erode the trust in the reason to collectThe French have a negative association with being a collectorYoung people often spend ~10-15 hrs/week searching and researching wine when they are collectorsDifferences are bigger between genders than nationality; wine collectors defined when 26-35, when women often start a family or build their career and don’t have the time to collectOnly men reported a benefit from wine knowledge at workEvents are a good way to test if people can be engaged with the brandCollectors learn about producers not regions (Asia different because certifications are important); want to know which producers, why they are important, and where they can be purchasedTo trade up in wine, their community needs to trade up with themNeed to sell a community to drink with, not just the winesWomen historically have less propensity to become collectorsOften have less access to money and drink 3-4x less than menSimilar at the beginning (44% of <25 year olds engaged in wine, goes down to 7% around 40); it’s not an interest problem, it’s a conversion problemWomen overindex in education, events, and the importance of communityThey never ask for a female only space, they don’t mind age or gender, but need to share interests (e.g. - similar spending power and interests)Successful events have thoughtful placement to create connections b/w people, including to be seen by interesting people; requires knowing all the people who comeNext for ARENI: restaurants business models and consumer expectations for fine wine and an update on US distribution

Even though it has been making wine for nearly 5 millenia, Israel is a wine region still finding its way in modern times.  Josh Greenstein, Director of the Israeli Wine Producers Association (“IWPA”), is on a mission to promote “Brand Israel,” which is all about new discoveries.  From winemaker stories to creating new grape varieties to mimic the descriptions in The Bible, Israel is making its mark on the global wine scene.  Detailed Show Notes: Josh’s background: 5th generation in the wine business, including NY liquor stores and distributionIsraeli Wine Producers Association overview~40 wineries (of 450 total) are membersMission is to promote “Brand Israel”Founded by the Herzog family, of importer Royal Wine CorpFunded by the wineries and Royal Wine CorpIsraeli wine overviewMaking wine for ~5,000 yearsWines were exported to the RomansGrowing Israeli food scene has helpedGrape varieties: Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay, many others including ancient grapes and new grapes, e.g. - Argaman, a genetically engineered crossing of Carignan and Souzao, designed to have a “crimson” color as referenced in The BibleClimate: lots of micro-climates, Mediterranean climate, lots of farmingSoil types: varied, including volcanic, terra rosa, limestoneTends to be tech forward in farming and winemaking practicesWine consumption in IsraelGrowing, consume most of domestically produced wineBig use for religious purposesCreated wine tourism industry to grow wine knowledge in the countryUS is #1 export market by far, majority in the NE (top markets - NY, NJ, Miami (fastest growing), LA, Chicago, TX); followed by Canada, Europe, South AmericaTotal Wine has an Israeli wine section different from Kosher section“Brand Israel”About discovery, stories of the wineries and something differentGood QPRConnects to multiple religions (e.g. - Easter is a large wine consumption event and Easter is about Israel)People often respond saying “Israel makes wine?” (e.g. - at South Beach Food & Wine)All wines in the group are kosher, but kosher is not the focus, just a beneficial attributeJudaism has lots of holiday and events with wine integrated (e.g. - Shabbat)Majority of Israeli wine sales in the US are off-premise, trying to push more on-premiseIsraeli politics can go both ways, some people don’t buy and others want to support