cover art for James Shaw talks with Professor Joseph Stiglitz

What Comes After What Comes Next

James Shaw talks with Professor Joseph Stiglitz

Season 1, Ep. 1

Welcome to the first episode of What Comes After What Comes Next.

A new podcast series from New Zealand's Minister for Climate Change and Green Party co-leader James Shaw, which explores how we can renew our economies and our societies at the same time as solving climate crisis.

We are in an unprecedented moment. What we do with it will determine the quality of life for billions of people – not just for the next few months or years, but for the generations to come.

This week James is joined by Nobel Prize winner Professor Joseph Stiglitz.

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    We're back! And for this episode we're lucky to welcome the one and only Ben Rhodes onto the show.Ben spent eight years with President Barack Obama - as a close confidante, speechwriter, national security advisor, and friend. He was there when the Paris Agreement was signed, and at Obama's side every step of the way towards that historic moment - including the breakthrough with China that ultimately paved the way for the agreement. We hope you enjoy this one. It's rare to get to speak with someone who has been so close to the highest levels of climate politics. As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at Follow James on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
  • 7. The control of the control of nature with Elizabeth Kolbert

    Elizabeth Kolbert is the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of The Sixth Extinction. Her most recent book, Under a White Sky, looks at the unintended consequences of human attempts to control nature with technology.  "We're now intervening to counter the effects of our own intervention," Kolbert says. "I call it the control of the control of nature."When it comes to climate change, the question that lies at the heart of Under a White Sky is essentially whether various experiments in geoengineering are a distraction from cutting emissions, or whether things have gotten so bad that we need to consider these interventions.James caught up with Elizabeth about this and what our priorities should be when it comes to addressing the climate crisis – action to cut emissions, even though it might not be enough globally, or take the risk of using technology to geoengineer the climate, at all the potential consequences that could entail.   We had a few technical difficulties with this one and had to rely on the recording function on Zoom, which doesn't offer the best sound quality - but it doesn't get in the way of a great conversation!As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at Follow James on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
  • 6. Building political support for the transition with David Axelrod

    This week James catches up with the former chief strategist and senior advisor to President Obama, David Axelrod. James and David talk about the tensions between consensus building and the need for urgent action when it comes to climate action. They also talk about the need to tell a positive story about how climate action will benefit people's lives. David shares his experience of working on 150 campaigns across the U.S., including Barrack Obama's two historic elections in 2008 and 2012, and highlights the importance of bringing people along on the journey net-zero. Obama himself has said his administration did not “adapt quickly enough to the fact that there were people being left behind and that frustrations were going to flare up.” This is something we will all need to be aware of. As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at Follow James on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
  • 5. Telling stories with Barbara Kingsolver

    This week James catches up with award winning author Barbara Kingsolver, whose work over the last three decades has eloquently and movingly touched on matters of genuine social and environmental concern.Most notably, Barbara's novel Flight Behaviour conveyed the impact of climate change on a community, an ecosystem and a species. The novel also draws out the tension that can exist between one's everyday life and the changes happening around us, of which we can feel powerless to address on our own. This is particularly evident in the life of the novel's main character, Dellarobia, who tries to make sense of the unexpected arrival of a flock of monarch butterflies and what it might mean for the future while struggling with the challenges of poverty and her own family. Running through Barbara's work over the last 30 years has been a real sense of place - from her early books in Arizona, to the Poisonwood Bible, to Flight Behaviour. She has also written a number of books with more than a passing reference to the natural world, including Small Wonder and Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. Most recently Barbara contributed a poem to a Time magazine special report called 2050: The Fight for the Earth, which provides a powerful look at the politics of consumption, equality, and climate change. Halfway through the episode Barbara treats us to a very special reading of the poem. Some of the most popular podcast episodes we've published so far have been those that look at climate change through a slightly different lens. In the last series it was legendary music producer Brian Eno who spoke to James about what different models and structures for making music can teach us about how to organise society and our politics. Today we are delighted to bring you another unique perspective on the role art and literature can play in helping address the climate crisis. As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at Follow James on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
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  • 3. The habitable earth with David Wallace-Wells

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  • 2. Climate science and protecting the "best" planet with Dr. Kate Marvel

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  • 1. Climate, geopolitics, and trade with Jeffrey Sachs

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  • Series Two Coming Soon!

    Series two drops this Saturday. Look forward to joining you then!