What Comes After What Comes Next


Climate crisis and jobs with Naomi Klein

Season 1, Ep. 3

This week James talks to the award-winning journalist and bestselling author Naomi Klein.

Naomi has spent two decades documenting the transformations that take place under the cover of disaster. She has also written extensively about how tackling the climate crisis can both create jobs and make the economy much fairer and more equitable.

James and Naomi started their conversation by talking about how the Covid-19 pandemic is remaking what governments and corporations see as possible. Naomi has talked a lot about how this change has mainly been for the worst — but, as you will hear, this does not need be the case in the future.

This is a hopeful conversation about how we can use this moment to tackle the climate crisis, create thousands of new jobs, address inequality, and make life better for everyone.

On Fire: The Burning Case for a Green New Deal

More Episodes


Telling stories with Barbara Kingsolver

Season 2, Ep. 5
This week James catches up with award winning author Barbara Kingsolver, whose work over the last three decades has eloquently and movingly touched on matters of genuine social and environmental concern.Most notably, Barbara's novel Flight Behaviour conveyed the impact of climate change on a community, an ecosystem and a species. The novel also draws out the tension that can exist between one's everyday life and the changes happening around us, of which we can feel powerless to address on our own. This is particularly evident in the life of the novel's main character, Dellarobia, who tries to make sense of the unexpected arrival of a flock of monarch butterflies and what it might mean for the future while struggling with the challenges of poverty and her own family. Running through Barbara's work over the last 30 years has been a real sense of place - from her early books in Arizona, to the Poisonwood Bible, to Flight Behaviour. She has also written a number of books with more than a passing reference to the natural world, including Small Wonder and Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. Most recently Barbara contributed a poem to a Time magazine special report called 2050: The Fight for the Earth, which provides a powerful look at the politics of consumption, equality, and climate change. Halfway through the episode Barbara treats us to a very special reading of the poem. Some of the most popular podcast episodes we've published so far have been those that look at climate change through a slightly different lens. In the last series it was legendary music producer Brian Eno who spoke to James about what different models and structures for making music can teach us about how to organise society and our politics. Today we are delighted to bring you another unique perspective on the role art and literature can play in helping address the climate crisis. As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback at james.shaw@parliament.govt.nz. Follow James on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.