Share

cover art for Special: Exclusive Interview with Ex-Wives Undercover Amber & Athena and Prof. Brenner Fissell

Strangers on the Internet

Special: Exclusive Interview with Ex-Wives Undercover Amber & Athena and Prof. Brenner Fissell

Season 2, Ep. 32

This episode provides a special interview with the top 1% podcast (over a million downloads!) "Ex-Wives Undercover: Liars, Cheaters & Love Cons" hosts Amber Rasmussen and Athena Klingerman about how their ex-husband Brandon continued freely harming women and children despite seventeen protective orders in three states against him. After law enforcement in the state of Washington and elsewhere didn't stop him, it is only his eventual near-murderous attack on a woman in California that put him in jail for ten years. Criminal law scholar and Villanova University professor Brenner Fissell provides expert commentary on what went wrong and what the difficulties are in changing the system. Irina and Michelle take you through a journey involving not only criminal matters but also the family court framework and the misunderstanding of conditions such as narcissistic personality disorder. Strap on your seatbelts for a wild ride with TikTok sensations Amber and Athena that covers Brandon's repeat manipulation of police officers and judges, a myriad of falsified documents, and ankle monitor escapes!


Amber & Athena's "Ex-Wives Undercover: Liars, Cheaters & Love Cons" website


Brenner Fissell's faculty profile


Ex-Wives Undercover YouTube interview with Irina & Michelle on "How to Navigate Online Dating"


Sacramento Bee article about "Brandon's last con" by Pulitzer Prize winner Melinda Henneberger (paywalled)


Daily Dot article about how Amber & Athena exposed Brandon on TikTok


Ex-Wives Undercover TikTok


SOTI "Special: Exclusive Interview with Tinder Swindler Star Victim Cecilie Fjellhøy" Part 1 and Part 2 (ep. 15 & 16)


SOTI "Guest Chat: Catfishing Beyond the Tinder Swindler with Anna Rowe and Jennifer" Part 1 and Part 2 (ep. 5 & 6)

More episodes

View all episodes

  • 65. Guest Chat: Interracial Dating with Prof. Solangel Maldonado

    44:03||Season 3, Ep. 65
    In this episode, Irina discusses all things interracial dating with Prof. Solangel Maldonado of the Seton Hall University School of Law. Solangel introduces listeners to her new book "The Architecture of Desire: How the Law Shapes Interracial Intimacy and Perpetuates Inequality." How have not only anti-miscegenation laws but also laws related to property and other matters, including zoning-related regulations, led to lower levels of interracial coupling to this day? Have racial filters on dating apps exacerbated the state of things? And how can we have conversations with individuals about their dating preferences without their getting defensive? For all that and more, tune in!Solangel Maldonado’s faculty profileSolangel’s book “The Architecture of Desire: How the Law Shapes Interracial Intimacy and Perpetuates Inequality”
  • 64. Guest Chat: Fierce Desires with Dr. Rebecca Davis

    46:05||Season 3, Ep. 64
    Dr. Rebecca Davis, the Miller Family Early Career professor at the University of Delaware, recently completed the first major account of the history of sex and sexuality in America in three decades. She talks with Irina and Michelle about her new book "Fierce Desires," which complicates our understanding of how issues such as gender identity and sexual orientation have evolved between the early colonial period and today. From the societal treatment of nonconforming individuals to recent Supreme Court decisions on reproductive choice and to the upcoming presidential election, Rebecca covers it all in this fascinating episode filled with surprising historical twists and turns!Rebecca Davis's faculty profileRebecca's book "Fierce Desires"Rebecca's podcast "This Is Probably a Really Weird Question..."
  • 63. Guest Chat: Fighting Coercive Controllers with Dr. Christine Cocchiola and Amy Polacko

    58:08||Season 3, Ep. 63
    On this episode, Irina speaks with clinician Dr. Christine Cocchiola and divorce coach Amy Polacko about their new book "Framed: Women in the Family Court Underworld." These coauthors describe the devastating consequences that many women experience when they try to leave their abusers and to protect their children during and after divorce. The podcast guests explain how courts often let coercive controllers run loose and what victims can do to stand up to physical, emotional, financial, legal, and other forms of abuse. The conversation delves into both the need for education on coercive control and legislative change to address its consequences worldwide. Please join our discussion for your own sake and that of loved ones who are current or potential victims! SOTI ep. 17 “How to Survive Divorce and Break-ups with Amy Polacko”Pre-ordering info for "Framed: Women in the Family Court Underworld" bookFacebook book launch groupDr. Christine Cocchiola's websiteAmy Polacko's websiteJoan S. Meyer (GW Law) & Sean Dickson's study "Mapping Gender: Shedding Empirical Light on Family Courts' Treatment of Cases Involving Abuse and Alienation"Amy Polacko's Newsweek article "My Ex-Husband Won't Let Me Vaccinate Our Son"Amy Polacko's Ms. Magazine article "Lawyers Say Catherine Kassenoff's Case--and Thousands of Others--Violate U.S. Constitutional Right to Due Process"
  • 62. #metoo Coverage: Dilan Esper Follow-up on Joshua Wright's Lawsuits

    48:51||Season 3, Ep. 62
    In the fifth part of this coverage of the sexual misconduct allegations against ex-George Mason University (GMU) law professor and former FTC Commissioner Joshua Wright, Irina invites back Dilan Esper, an experienced litigator in areas that include defamation law and the First Amendment. Together, they analyze the most recent legal developments in two lawsuits that Josh has launched. The first is his defamation lawsuit against two of the women who accused Josh of misconduct--Elyse Dorsey and Angela Landry--where the judge allowed the lawsuit to proceed past a successful motion to dismiss after Josh amended his complaint. The second is a sex discrimination lawsuit where Josh is suing his former employer GMU for the way it handled his complaint, arguing that the university prematurely sided with his alleged victims because he is a man. Dilan explains to listeners why he thinks that Josh's legal actions will neither succeed in court nor help to restore his reputation, and why some of Josh's painting himself as a victim of the #metoo movement in legal filings may be motivated by his hoping to get future benefits from fellow Title IX critics. Dilan also discusses the use of defamation lawsuits generally in responding to sexual allegations, including based on his experience representing one of Bill Cosby's victims. SOTI ep. 39 with Prof. Christa LaserSOTI ep. 40 with Prof. Brandy WagstaffSOTI ep. 41 with Aliza ShatzmanSOTI ep. 42 with Dilan EsperDilan Esper's profileDilan's TwitterWall Street Journal coverage part 1Wall Street Journal coverage part 2Wall Street Journal coverage part 3Note: According to a statement printed in the media by Lindsay McKasson, counsel to Joshua Wright at Binall Law Group "all allegations of sexual misconduct are false," "These false allegations are being made public after unsuccessfully demanding millions of dollars behind closed doors," and "We look forward to total vindication in court." According to a tweet by Christa Laser, "I don't appreciate that his attorney falsely suggests we are all lying (1/2 was in writing!) & want $ (this is a lie–I only want him gone)."
  • 61. Guest Chat: The Neurobiology of Relationships with Dr. Dixie Meyer

    43:52||Season 3, Ep. 61
    What are the neurobiological underpinnings of relationships? Irina and Michelle delve into that question and its implications with St. Louis University professor and director of SLU's relationships and brain sciences research laboratory Dr. Dixie Meyer. She explains how couples co-regulate their emotions and what can go awry in the process, whether the phrase "happy wife, happy life" has empirical backing, and how the pandemic has affected romantic relationships and women's societal roles. Come nerd out with your favorite hosts and another awesome guest!Dixie Meyer’s profileDixie’s researchDixie’s NPR interview
  • 60. The Dating Professors: How to Deal with Commitment Phobia

    51:06||Season 3, Ep. 60
    One of the chief complaints of dating app users (and especially straight women) is that commitment phobia abounds in those they meet. Can people with commitment phobia ever change? And if so, can they ever be nudged into such change? What happens when someone commits out of fear of losing the other person? Irina and Michelle discuss all that and more on this episode, so listen up! Show notesbell hooks's book "All About Love: New Visions"
  • 59. Guest Chat: The Philosopher and the Engineer with Dr. Michele Merritt and Paul Hiebing

    49:48||Season 3, Ep. 59
    On this episode, Arkansas State University philosophy professor Michele Merritt joins us from Tennessee with her engineer husband Paul Hiebing. The couple discusses meeting online and navigating life from dating in Florida to getting married, moving states twice, and adding both kids and pets. How have they weathered mental health challenges, including ones resulting from Michele being adopted and reconnecting with her biological relatives? The couple opens up about depression, suicidality, emotional labor, and the integration of their busy lives. Come check it out!Michele Merritt's websiteMichele's faculty profileMichele's "Minding Dogs" book
  • 58. The Dating Professors: Should You Ever Date at Work?

    41:57||Season 3, Ep. 58
    According to recent data and media reports, Gen Z has some enthusiasm for dating in the workplace. Is that a good idea, however? Irina and Michelle dissect the pros and cons of finding a significant other at work. What happens if things fall apart and people have to keep collaborating after a break-up? And how might scenarios play out if there is an uneven power dynamic between the individuals involved? The Dating Professors take a look at the issues involved from regular dating situations to extramarital affairs. You won't believe what happened when Michelle worked at Blockbuster Video and later during her psychology practicum!
  • 57. Guest Chat: Sex Addiction with D.J. Burr

    50:17||Season 3, Ep. 57
    On this episode, Irina and Michelle chat with psychotherapist and sex addiction specialist D.J. Burr. In recovery from sex addiction himself, D.J. explains the condition and the path toward improvement. He discusses how trauma connects to addiction, how dating apps cause special problems for those with addiction, and why he thinks porn can never be used in healthy ways. D.J. also describes the therapy process involved in recovery and the importance of addressing the issue of shame. Check out this episode filled with information and vulnerability.D.J. Burr's websiteD.J.'s LinktreeD.J.'s "I Just Wanted Love" book (free chapter here)