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Politics on the Couch
Is Democracy Rational? A conversation with Steven Pinker
Human beings routinely make terrible choices but humanity still achieves amazing things.
How does this paradox work?
And is it still working when technology seems to amplify the worst in us.
In this episode, Politics on the Couch host Rafael Behr talks to Professor Steven Pinker about the constant struggle between evidence and emotion for control of the political agenda; whether truth and fact are winning the long war against superstition and falsehood, and why rationality always has the last word.
Professor Steven Pinker is Johnstone Family Professor of Psychology at Harvard University and the author of a number of highly acclaimed and prize-winning books about psychology, cognitive science, linguistics and history.
His latest book Rationality: What it is; why it seems scarce; why it matters was published in September.
https://stevenpinker.com/publications/rationality-what-it-why-it-seems-so-scarce-and-why-it-matters
More about Steven Pinker:
https://stevenpinker.com/biocv
Other books by Steven Pinker mentioned in episode
The Better Angels of our Nature
https://stevenpinker.com/publications/better-angels-our-nature
Enlightenment Now https://stevenpinker.com/publications/enlightenment-now-case-reason-science-humanism-and-progress
A couple of references in this episode that might be useful as further reading.
Michael Ignatieff’s book Fire and Ashes, about a failed career in politics
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/nov/27/michael-ignatieff-fire-ashes-review
Jonathan Rauch’s book The Constitution of Knowledge, about the crisis of trust in institutions
Politics on the Couch has been chosen by Feedspot as one of the Top 25 UK Psychology Podcasts and Top 25 Political Science Podcasts on the web.
https://blog.feedspot.com/uk_psychology_podcasts
https://blog.feedspot.com/political_science_podcasts
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53. Can Democracy Survive Social Media?
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52. Changing minds about immigration
46:35||Ep. 52Rafael Behr talks to Dr. Tessa Buchanan, a former civil servant and now an academic at Cambridge’s Political Psychology Lab, about the psychology behind changing how some voters think about outsiders or immigrants, revealing why she believes attitudes aren’t always as fixed or hostile as they may seem.From the media’s obsession with “small boats” to conflicting anxieties about national identity, Rafael and Tessa discuss how easy is it to move public opinion, and so public policy, on a topic that has dominated political debate in the UK, EU and US for almost a decade.Links to topics mentioned in the podcast How an authoritarianism-compatible text changes British attitudes towards EU immigration Study from Cambridge University Political Psychology Lab2019 YouGov survey looking at EU immigration2024 US survey pre-Presidential electionCambridge University Political Psychology LabPodcasts mentionedRafael Behr and Karen Stennerhttps://shows.acast.com/politicsonthecouch/episodes/theauthoritatianpersonalitywithkarenstennerRafael Behr and Dr Lee de-Withttps://shows.acast.com/politicsonthecouch/episodes/theleftstroublewithconnectingwithsocialonservatives
51. How to break the ‘democratic doom loop’
38:02||Ep. 51Rafael Behr talks to Demos' CEO Polly Curtis about the urgent case for upgrading our democracy and repairing the broken relationship between citizen and state.The conversation is loosely based around this new Demos paper released today (2 July) that sets out the challenges of the global democratic emergency, how this is threatening the political landscape in Britain and what we can do about it.
50. Appetite for Chaos: Why some voters just want to watch the world burn
43:38||Ep. 50Host Rafael Behr is joined by political scientist Prof. Michael Bang Petersen, whose research challenges the common belief that those who share misinformation are simply uninformed or gullible.Instead, Petersen suggest that many of these individuals are politically savvy and highly motivated, not by truth, but by the usefulness of information in advancing their political goals.The conversation also explores the concept of the "need for chaos": a psychological drive found in a significant minority who actively seek to destabilise political systems, not just support one side over another.Petersen also talks how status anxiety, feeling stuck or left behind in a rigid social hierarchy, fuels this destructive impulse.
49. 'Post-Pandemic Politics' – Did Covid change everything? Did it change anything?
55:19||Ep. 49A conversation between Rafael Behr and writer and broadcaster David Aaronovitch, about ripples from the pandemic that still shape politics, with a digression on the ways that Britain is not America and whether that makes 'Maga-populism' less contagious.LinksDavid Aaronovitch's substack - https://davidaaronovitch.substack.comBBC's Briefing Room presented by David Aaronovitch - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002bj77This is a Behr and Berman podcast production
48. Five Years: Our Brains Hurt A Lot
45:27||Ep. 48An anniversary episode in which host Rafael Behr and producer Philip Berman look back over a tumultuous time and ponder what they have learned from putting politics on the couch.Links to Politics on the Couch episodes discussed in this podcastAnti-vaxxers – fear, anxiety and the psychology of misinformation The authoritarian personality - why some voters feel drawn to populism and how to lure them away The Madness of King Don - a journey to the dark side of charisma, with Drew Westen
47. 'The Ideological Brain' – Are Some People Hard-wired for Radicalisation?
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46. Red Wall, Blue Wall, Grey Area - a conversation about voter volatility with Professor Paula Surridge
59:18||Ep. 46Rafael Behr talks to Paula Surridge Professor of Political Sociology about the fragmentation of support for the two big parties since Brexit, what's causing it and what it means for parties trying to maintain their voter coalitions.Questions also covered:What drives support for Reform UK, and how vulnerable is their voter base?Are the Liberal Democrats benefiting from tactical voting, and can they sustain their recent gains?Why the Conservative Party faces so many difficulties in defining its identity?How are changing media consumption habits and voter expectations reshaping political engagement?The discussion also touches on the impact of non-voters and the potential for electoral reform to become a more prominent issue.This is a Rafael Behr and Philip Berman production.
45. 'System Fail' - a conversation with Sam Freedman about the way Britain's broken politics can suffocate even the best intentions.
59:14||Ep. 45Host Rafael Behr talks to author, policy expert and podcaster Sam Freedman about his new book Failed State: Why Nothing Works and How We Fix ItSam Freedman is a senior fellow at the Institute for Government and an Ark Schools adviser. He writes about policy and politics for numerous outlets, including the Financial Times, Sunday Times, Guardian and New Statesman. With his father, he runs ‘Comment is Freed’, Britain’s most popular politics Substack. He has spent his career working in different policy-focused roles around Westminster, including as an adviser to the then opposition leader, David Cameron, and as a senior policy adviser at the Department for Education for three years, working with (friends of the podcast) Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings. Feedspot has chosen Politics on the Couch as one of the Top 25 UK Psychology and Political Science Podcasts on the web.https://blog.feedspot.com/uk_psychology_podcastshttps://blog.feedspot.com/political_science_podcasts