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Politics on the Couch
Appetite for Chaos: Why some voters just want to watch the world burn
Host Rafael Behr is joined by political scientist Prof. Michael Bang Petersen, whose research challenges the common belief that those who share misinformation are simply uninformed or gullible.
Instead, Petersen suggest that many of these individuals are politically savvy and highly motivated, not by truth, but by the usefulness of information in advancing their political goals.
The conversation also explores the concept of the "need for chaos": a psychological drive found in a significant minority who actively seek to destabilise political systems, not just support one side over another.
Petersen also talks how status anxiety, feeling stuck or left behind in a rigid social hierarchy, fuels this destructive impulse.
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52. Changing minds about immigration
46:35||Ep. 52In this episode, Rafael Behr talks to Dr. Tessa Buchanan, a former civil servant and now an academic at Cambridge’s Political Psychology Lab, about the psychology behind changing how some voters think about outsiders or immigrants, revealing why she believes attitudes aren’t always as fixed or hostile as they may seem.From the media’s obsession with “small boats” to conflicting anxieties about national identity, Rafael and Tessa discuss how easy is it to move public opinion, and so public policy, on a topic that has dominated political debate in the UK, EU and US for almost a decade.Links to topics mentioned in the podcast How an authoritarianism-compatible text changes British attitudes towards EU immigration Study from Cambridge University Political Psychology Lab2019 YouGov survey looking at EU immigration2024 US survey pre-Presidential electionCambridge University Political Psychology LabPodcasts mentionedRafael Behr and Karen Stennerhttps://shows.acast.com/politicsonthecouch/episodes/theauthoritatianpersonalitywithkarenstennerRafael Behr and Dr Lee de-Wit https://shows.acast.com/politicsonthecouch/episodes/theleftstroublewithconnectingwithsocialonservatives
51. How to break the ‘democratic doom loop’
38:02||Ep. 51Rafael Behr talks to Demos' CEO Polly Curtis about the urgent case for upgrading our democracy and repairing the broken relationship between citizen and state.The conversation is loosely based around this new Demos paper released today (2 July) that sets out the challenges of the global democratic emergency, how this is threatening the political landscape in Britain and what we can do about it.
49. 'Post-Pandemic Politics' – Did Covid change everything? Did it change anything?
55:19||Ep. 49A conversation between Rafael Behr and writer and broadcaster David Aaronovitch, about ripples from the pandemic that still shape politics, with a digression on the ways that Britain is not America and whether that makes 'Maga-populism' less contagious.LinksDavid Aaronovitch's substack - https://davidaaronovitch.substack.comBBC's Briefing Room presented by David Aaronovitch - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002bj77This is a Behr and Berman podcast production
48. Five Years: Our Brains Hurt A Lot
45:27||Ep. 48An anniversary episode in which host Rafael Behr and producer Philip Berman look back over a tumultuous time and ponder what they have learned from putting politics on the couch.Links to Politics on the Couch episodes discussed in this podcastAnti-vaxxers – fear, anxiety and the psychology of misinformation The authoritarian personality - why some voters feel drawn to populism and how to lure them away The Madness of King Don - a journey to the dark side of charisma, with Drew Westen
47. 'The Ideological Brain' – Are Some People Hard-wired for Radicalisation?
54:05||Ep. 47To coincide with the launch of her new book (The Ideological Brain - A Radical Science of Susceptible Minds) Rafael Behr talks to Dr Leor Zmigrod, a political psychologist and neuroscientist, about the ingredients of dogmatic thinking, why some of us are more prone than others, and how we can protect ourselves.
46. Red Wall, Blue Wall, Grey Area - a conversation about voter volatility with Professor Paula Surridge
59:18||Ep. 46Rafael Behr talks to Paula Surridge Professor of Political Sociology about the fragmentation of support for the two big parties since Brexit, what's causing it and what it means for parties trying to maintain their voter coalitions.Questions also covered:What drives support for Reform UK, and how vulnerable is their voter base?Are the Liberal Democrats benefiting from tactical voting, and can they sustain their recent gains?Why the Conservative Party faces so many difficulties in defining its identity?How are changing media consumption habits and voter expectations reshaping political engagement?The discussion also touches on the impact of non-voters and the potential for electoral reform to become a more prominent issue.This is a Rafael Behr and Philip Berman production.
45. 'System Fail' - a conversation with Sam Freedman about the way Britain's broken politics can suffocate even the best intentions.
59:14||Ep. 45Host Rafael Behr talks to author, policy expert and podcaster Sam Freedman about his new book Failed State: Why Nothing Works and How We Fix ItSam Freedman is a senior fellow at the Institute for Government and an Ark Schools adviser. He writes about policy and politics for numerous outlets, including the Financial Times, Sunday Times, Guardian and New Statesman. With his father, he runs ‘Comment is Freed’, Britain’s most popular politics Substack. He has spent his career working in different policy-focused roles around Westminster, including as an adviser to the then opposition leader, David Cameron, and as a senior policy adviser at the Department for Education for three years, working with (friends of the podcast) Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings. Feedspot has chosen Politics on the Couch as one of the Top 25 UK Psychology and Political Science Podcasts on the web.https://blog.feedspot.com/uk_psychology_podcastshttps://blog.feedspot.com/political_science_podcasts
44. ‘The gen Z revolution’ - how a student protest toppled a corrupt and violent government
55:18||Ep. 44In a week of protests, counter-protests and riots in the UK, 5000 miles away in Bangladesh student-led uprising led to 300 people being killed, the toppling of a corrupt PM and violent regime, and a Nobel Peace Prize winner being installed as head a new interim government. In this edition, we're talking about the violent and momentous events in Bangladesh with award-winning British-born investigative journalist David Bergman, who has been following and reporting on the country for almost 30 years. He's written widely about Bangladesh for The Daily Telegraph, Al Jazeera, the New York Times, and The Times. Between 2004 and 2017, he lived in Bangladesh, writing for several Bangladeshi newspapers, including New Age, The Daily Star and bdnews24.com.He was forced to leave in 2017 due to his critical writing about government corruption and human rights violations.Since then, he’s lived in London and helped found Netra News, a media platform based in Sweden that published investigative news and analysis on BangladeshHe’s also won a Royal Television Society award for a documentary he worked on about the atrocities that took place during Bangladesh’s 1971 War of Independence. In the episode, David explains what happened there, what sparked it off, what’s next for the country, what we know about the next potential leader and the fascinating links between a new Labour Minister and the now deposed Bangladeshi PM and her party.Links mentioned in the podcasthttps://x.com/TheDavidBergmanhttps://x.com/muktadirnewagehttps://x.com/nomhossainhttps://x.com/taqbirhudahttps://www.facebook.com/shafiqul.alam.71216