How Do We Fix It?

When renowned physician-scientist Francis Collins was about to have his first conversation with Christian conservative Wilk Wilkinson in early 2022, he admits that he had concerns. "I thought oh boy, this is going to be a tough one". Dr. Collins had recently stepped down as Director of NIH— The National Institutes of Health. He served under Presidents Obama, Trump, and Biden, and played a leading role in the federal response to the COVID pandemic. Podcaster Wilk Wilkinson, who lives in rural Minnesota, was intensely critical of how the government handled COVID.Today both Francis and Wilk are friends. They lead the Braver Angels' Truth and Trust Project. The goal is to build trust between ordinary Americans and the public health community in the wake of the pandemic. In each Truth and Trust gathering equal numbers of people from each side of the debate about what happened with public health listen carefully and express their views. In this episode of "How Do We Fix It?", Wilk and Francis discuss their unlikely partnership, what they've learned from those they disagree with, and how they're working together across divides."We're going to have another pandemic," says Francis. "If we do not learn the lessons of what went right and what went wrong with this one then we're going to be in a terrible spot."Both men still have different opinions on the role of government mandates in health emergencies. "When I look at anything that involves the government it's through the lens of liberty," says Wilk. "If the one entity out there that has a monopoly on force is going to restrict the liberty of the individual they better be 100% sure that what they're doing is really the only option.""I learned a lot by listening, and Wilk was a very good person to listen to, about how the pandemic was different for somebody who was in a very different place than I was", says Francis. "I also learned from Wilk and others in the Truth and Trust sessions about how sometimes the pronouncements from people like me in public health communication came across as very elitist... as opposed to really explaining the circumstance about how imperfect the data was and how uncertain we often were that we were recommending was going to turn out to be right."Francis's forthcoming book, to be published in mid-September, is "The Road to Wisdom: On Truth, Science, Faith and Trust". Wilk's podcast is "Derate The Hate."

Toxic polarization is "the problem that eats all other problems... It's the sludge at the base of everything else," says our guest Mónica Guzmán. Think how much progress could be made on the great problems of today if politics were much more about discovering nuance than shouting slogans.This show is our second episode on the work, people, and ideas of the volunteer-led cross-partisan campaign, Braver Angels. In the coming months, we'll report on their initiatives and projects. Americans who are pissed off with politics are sometimes called "the exhausted majority." Many are tuning out toxic, divisive rhetoric that aims to settle scores instead of solving what's broken. Our guest, Braver Angels senior fellow Mónica Guzmán, has suggestions about how to be truly curious and have better conversations with those who see things differently.This loving liberal daughter of conservative immigrant parents who came to the US from Mexico, is a bridge builder, journalist and author. Her podcast is "A Braver Way". Modi’s recent book is “I Never Thought of It That Way." Our "How Do We Fix It?" interview was recorded a couple years ago. This show includes highlights and also an extract from Móni's podcast. "When you want to ask why people believe what they believe, instead ask how they came to believe what they believe," she tells us. When you ask how instead of why, you're asking for their story and then what people do is take you on a tour instead of being put on trial."

This is our first in a series of new reports on the work, people and projects of Braver Angels— the largest volunteer-led group in the bridging community. The show was recorded a few days after the assassination attempt against Donald Trump. Our guests are Jessie Mannisto and Luke Nathan Phillips, who spent this week in Milwaukee, right outside the Fiserv Forum Arena, site of the Republican National Convention. Since its founding after the 2016 election, Braver Angels has brought together many hundreds of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents to debate, discuss, and work together to bridge partisan divides. Jessie is Director of Debates at Braver Angels, and Luke is the Publius Fellow For Public Discourse. In this episode we hear about the Braver Angels petition calling on party leaders to detoxify our politics, the mood of Republican delegates and protesters on the streets outside, the differences between media coverage of the event and what its like to be there, as well as responses to Braver Angels and its push back against polarization. "We're at both party conventions because America is at the party conventions," Luke tells us. “It’s just really interesting observing how people are feeling on the ground.""We set up Braver Angels in the wake of the 2016 election trying to keep people from hating their friends and relatives over politics," says Jessie. "Now the stakes are higher. We really are confronted with the possibility of political violence and have seen that is what we're up against.”Braver Angels are working to fix the national crisis of partisan polarization at the heart of America's political paralysis. Last month they hosted America's largest Presidential debate watch party, with hundreds of Republicans, Democrats, and independents in the same room. In this episode we also hear about "A Braver Way", the podcast hosted by Mónica Guzmán." Her show is, we think, a companion to ours —  a personal guide across the divide that gives listeners creative, practical and sometimes playful suggestions about how to disagree over politics without getting angry, depressed or disagreeable.

In the last episode Jim Meigs and Richard Davies celebrated more than nine years as co-hosts. They also announced that their podcasting partnership was ending. But "How Do We Fix It?" is not going away. Instead we plan to focus on something we've covered a great deal recently, and is of urgent importance right now: The broken nature of American politics. In the weeks to come, Richard will be the solo host of the show. We'll feature a series of creative, constructive conversations with bridge builder— people who are working to reduce polarization and push back against partisan divides. We'll shine a spotlight on the largest group in the field: Braver Angels. There are many stories we're excited to share with you here on How Do We Fix It? Watch this space.

When we first started our podcast in the spring of 2015, Jim and Richard came from different political tribes. They still do. But during more than 400 shows they've deepened their friendship and learned a tremendous amount from each other, and our remarkable guests.While "How Do We Fix It?" podcast will continue its journey, Jim and Richard's nine years as co-hosts ends with this show. We discuss why the partnership is ending (spoiler alert: it's amicable!) and what they discovered about podcasting, politics, and how to navigate divisions at a time of rigid, painful divides."I feel like when we started, we were a couple of voices in the wilderness, searching for more open-minded conversations, looking for people willing to grapple with facts and ideas that don't fit their comfortable world views," says Jim."One of our last-minute decisions in those early days was to add a question mark to our title," says Richard. "I'm so glad we decided to do that, because fixing the current political mess starts with better listening and more challenging questions."In the years since we started our voices have grown into a movement. Some call it the bridging space with organizations such as Braver Angels, Heterodox Academy, Living Room Conversations, Listen First, Solutions Journalism Network, Common Ground Committee and many more. Media have also changed with the huge growth of podcasting, Substack, and new news sites such as The Free Press. We've enjoyed hearing from a remarkable range of guests. Among the most successful and persuasive experts are humble about their own opinions and accomplishments. They've been open-minded and curious about the views of those who sharply, and sometimes dismissively, disagreed with them. Standout examples include scientist Alina Chan, journalist and author Jonathan Rausch, writer and podcast host Yascha Mounk, and Moni Guzman of Braver Angels. In this episode Richard and Jim get personal and a bit emotional about where they've changed their minds and personally learned from each other. Please listen!Follow How Do We Fix It? on Facebook and Twitter X. Jim is a senior fellow at The Manhattan Institute. Follow him here on Twitter. He writes for City Journal and Commentary. Richard co-hosts "Let's Find Common Ground" podcast with Ashley Milne-Tyte. He's on Facebook and his Twitter handle is daviesnow.

Supporters of Ranked Choice Voting argue that we need to a big change how we vote. Our “choose-one” elections, they say, deprive voters of meaningful choices, create increasingly toxic campaign cycles, advance candidates who lack broad support and leave voters feeling like our voices are not heard. We examine the case for this form of proportional representation. Ranked Choice Voting could boost electoral turnout, reduce polarization, and cut the public cost of running elections. This relatively new reform is now being used in dozens of states, cities and counties. In 2022, Alaska implemented ranked-choice voting for the first time after a referendum revamped its elections.Our guest, Rob Richie is cofounder and senior analyst at FairVote, makes the case for how it works and why RCV is a viable way to improve electoral politics. Right now, he says, we are in this "incredibly intense winner-take-all environment" in most states. Ranked-choice voting could change the equation.Instead of picking just one candidate, voters rank as many candidates as they want in order of choice: first, second, third and so on. If your first-choice candidate is in last place, your vote counts for your highest-ranked candidate who can win by getting more than 50%. RCV removes voters' concerns that their favored candidate could split the vote.Most Americans agree Congress is not working. Retiring Senators Mitt Romney (Republican - Utah) and Joe Manchin (Democrat - West Virginia) are outspoken supporters of Ranked Choice Voting. “Every incentive in Washington is designed to make politics extreme,” says Manchin. “The growing divide between Democrats and Republicans is paralyzing Congress and worsening our nation’s problems.”

Liberalism is out of fashion. You might say that it's under siege. From the populist right to the progressive left, liberal touchtones of limited government, personal freedom, the rule of law, and a mixed economy have come in for harsh criticism.Liberalism is assailed by many critics, but it has not failed, argues Yale Political Science Professor Bryan Garsten. "A liberal society is unique in that it offers refuge from the very people it empowers" through "institutions and different political parties. This allows the rest of us to live undisturbed," he says. Supporters argue that this form of liberty most clearly elevates the liberal project. In addition to his research and teaching, Garsten has written recent op-eds for The New York Times. His books include “Saving Persuasion: A Defense of Rhetoric and Judgement” and a collection of essays he edited about Rousseau and the Age of Enlightenment. This episode is published with assistance from The Journal of Democracy. We are grateful. The most recent print issue includes essays by five authors, who grapple with questions of liberalism's lasting relevance and its challenges for the future. Our interview features a lively discussion about the difference between liberal thought and other "isms" such as neoliberalism, libertarianism and progressivism. We learn more about the importance of community, the limits of individual freedom, and why liberal societies do not produce refugees— arguably another unique source of strength.Professor Garsten is also skeptical of some aspects of modern liberalism. "I think there's a certain language that liberals use, of science, rights and progress which sometimes has been hijacked to justify elite overreach in imposing a vision of the world onto many people of different views," he tells us. "I offer the language of refuge as an alternative way to get at what's morally admirable in liberal societies."Recommendation: Richard has just read the new book by journalist and TV commentator, Fareed Zakaria: "Age of Revolutions. Progress and Backlash From 1600 to the Present."

In much of the country local news has collapsed, threatening civic pride and a sense of community for countless towns and cities. This dramatic change has also deepened America's divides.As our guest, journalist and public policy researcher Anna Brugmann explains in this episode, "the internet disrupted the local journalism model". Newspaper advertising revenue fell 80% since 2000. Thousands of local and regional publications closed. Most surviving newsrooms faced drastic cutbacks. Coverage of all kinds of local events— from city hall, school board meetings and football games to local businesses and zoning decisions — disappeared.First, Craigslist displaced print-based classified ads. Then Google, Facebook and other online firms became the main source of consumer advertising. We discuss the impact on local journalism. In recent decades, the news we read and listen to has largely shifted from local reporting to often highly polarizing national opinion journalism.In the first of two episodes on the changing face of the news media, we look at the retreat of local journalism and discuss solutions. These include non-profit media and changes in for-profit business models. Today, many newspapers get more revenue from subscriptions and fundraising drives than from advertising. We ask: how sustainable are these initiatives?Anna Brugmann is policy director for the advocacy organization, Rebuild Local News. According to her group, since 2004, as the U.S. population has grown, the number of newsroom employees has dropped by 57%."By almost every metric by which you measure a healthy community and a healthy democracy, the trends are in the wrong direction when local news leaves," says Anna. "In the past twenty years more than two thousands newspapers have closed in The United States."Recommendation: Jim is listening to a lot of podcasts since he unplugged his TV and stopped watching broadcast and cable news. Among his current favorite podcasts is "The Reeducation With Eli Lake". The show "challenges the common narratives the mainstream media and others push".

Diversity equity and inclusion: Sounds like a good thing in an incredibly diverse country such as ours, especially when teaching young people at American colleges and universities.But the DEI industry - or DEI Inc. — has arguably gone off the rails. There’s a big difference between the intentions behind a lot of diversity training and the results. We learn about the crucial difference between training and education, and hear the case against the Stop WOKE Act in Florida.History professors Amna Khalid and Jeff Snyder share their deep concerns about a growing industry. There is no reliable evidence that diversity, equity and inclusion training sessions at colleges, non-profits, and large corporations actually work. In many places, DEI could be making things worse, imposing an ideological litmus test and encouraging cynicism and dishonesty at places of learning.Amna specializes in modern South Asian history, the history of medicine and the global history of free expression. Growing up under a series of military dictatorships in Pakistan, she has a strong interest in issues relating to free speech.Jeff is also a Professor at Carleton: A historian of education, who studies questions of race, national identity and the purpose of public education in a diverse, democratic society. He’s the author of Making Black History: The Color Line, Culture and Race in the Age of Jim Crow.  Jeff and Amna released this YouTube video about DEI. They speak regularly together about academic freedom, free speech and campus politics at colleges and universities. They also write frequently on these issues for newspapers and magazines, including The Chronicle of Higher Education, The New Republic and The Washington Post. Amna hosts a podcast and blog called “Banished,” which explores censorship controversies in the past and present. Recommendation: Richard has been watching "Nada" on Hulu, a gentle and funny TV series from Argentina about a food critic in Buenos Aires and his observations on life and eating.