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Wild with Sarah Wilson
COLLAPSE SERIES: Olivia Lazard - The big fat renewable energy blindspot NO ONE wants to talk about
Hello, dear wild friends! I'm taking a short break, but I wanted to share some of my previous interviews with guests who delve into themes of collapse, the meta-crisis, and the decline of the systems we've always known to grow—like GDP, technology, population, and prosperity.
Many of you have joined my book serialization project on Substack, where we're navigating the collapse awareness journey together. These interviews provide valuable context for our journey. You can join us here if you're not already part of the project. I release one chapter of my book at a time, and we discuss its contents in the comments, tackling this big, beautiful, hard thing as a community, step by step. In the meantime, enjoy this wild conversation with Olivia Lazard.
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Olivia Lazard (peace mediator; rare minerals expert) exposes missing chunks in the “green” energy transition that many of us assume to be the “fix” to the climate crisis. Via her work as a fellow at Carnegie Europe and advisor on global security, she explains how the mining and extraction of rare earth metals like lithium, graphite and cobalt - to make the batteries etc for the new green “economy” - are both rare (there’s literally not enough of them to make the transition), come with massive ecological costs (therefore rendering the “clean tech” very dirty), but are also destabilising the world in ways few are able to fathom. This is a very confronting reality, especially for climate activists and green economy evangelists.
In this chat we go deep and wide into climate security issues, pull apart the techno-optimist “but AI and innovation will save us!” mindset, and what we really need to know about geo-engineering. This, on paper, sounds like a very “head-y” conversation, but Olivia also weaves in “heart” considerations that I think many of you are aching for in this debate. At the end, we discuss whether we have “hope”.
SHOW NOTES
Connect with Olivia on X / Twitter
Check out Olivia’s TED talk to see the charts she talks about.
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184. COREY BRADSHAW: Are humans going extinct? (And how soon?)
01:17:30||Ep. 184Professor Corey Bradshaw (global ecologist; author) has spent a career studying species populations and biodiversity loss and has the starkest of messages for humanity: we are in our own mass extinction event. Debate rages as to whether humans have an overpopulation problem or are in a fertility collapse, and which is more likely to take us down.The director of the Global Ecology Lab at Flinders University talks us through the devasting finer points of this divide. We also cover why Australia has the highest mammalian extinction rate in the world, why we should be having one less child, what happens when bees die out, and the importance of supporting anyone trying to ban political donations. This conversation is a hard one, but like many in this space, Corey has a philosophy for living fully and joyously with the truth he feels compelled to share: Life is going to get far shittier than we can imagine; our noble obligation is to make it a bit less shitty.SHOW NOTESHere’s the chapter in my book where I explain in full how fertility collapse is playing out. A REMINDER!! Corey will be joining the comments and is happy to answer any questions you have. You’ll need to post them in the comment section of this post.Here’s where you can get started with the Book Serialisation (Put Table of contents).Here’s my Wild chat with Parag Khanna on the best place to live in the world going forward.Read Corey's blog Conversation Bytes--If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it’s where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet’s connect on Instagram and WeAre8183. AMA: How do I explain collapse to someone?*
27:47||Ep. 183*(and that the wars, climate disasters, democratic upheavals etc today are VERY different to crises in the past)?This episode’s question has been asked by too many of you to mention. Many of us have been in situations where we try to talk about the domino’ing of crisis - AI, nuclear, climate, food insecurity, democratic decline, political polarisation, fertility collapse - and get told we’re just being a big old Henny Penny, and that crises happen all the time and humanity survives. The belief is that tech innovation, price mechanisms, progress (!) and human ingenuity will find a way to save us. However, this time is categorically different to past near misses and calamities. There are reams of science that prove it (sadly). So how do you explain this in a calm, convincing way at the next BBQ? Sarah provides a comprehensive rundown of all the points that one can make that set out a picture of how the collapse of complex systems works.SHOW NOTESHere’s where you can start reading the first chapter of the Book Serialisation. And here’s the table of contents.Here’s the Meg Wheatley episode from the recent Collapse Series. Here’s the written version of the explainer (should you want a printable version on hand!) Want to ask Sarah your question…post it here.--If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it’s where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet’s connect on Instagram and WeAre8182. NICK BRYANT: What has happened to America?
01:10:09||Ep. 182Dr Nick Bryant (BBC Washington correspondent, author) has spent most of his career covering the events that many of us see as spelling the decline of the US, a once-great nation – the school shootings, Trump presidency, Roe v Wade, storming of the Capitol, George Floyd, conspiracy theories and…all the rest. But in his new book The Forever War: America’s Unending Conflict with Itself Nick argues that the hate, divisiveness, racism and murmurings of civil war are part of the fabric of the country – “America is just doing America”. Nick has been a foreign correspondent for three decades, writing for the BBC, The Economist, The Washington Post, The Atlantic and more. A copy of his previous book, When America Stopped Being Great sat on Joe Biden’s Oval Office bookshelf. This chat sets out to give context to the issues swirling in the lead-up to the November election. We cover Gaza, RFK Jnr, Project 25, guns, media both side-ism and the fascinating history of American Exceptionalism.SHOW NOTESGet your copy of The Forever War: America’s Unending Conflict with ItselfI reference a post I wrote on Project 25. You can read it here.This 7am podcast about Project 25 is useful. And check out the Jim Jeffries clip on gun control. It’s brilliant.You can get started with reading my next book here.--If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it’s where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet’s connect on Instagram and WeAre8181. CLIVE HAMILTON: CONTENTIOUS CLIMATE COLLAPSE TRUTH - how the “Electrify Everything” message + private schools could be our downfall if we don’t change course
01:12:45||Ep. 181Professor Clive Hamilton (public ethicist; climate activist; founder of the Australia Institute) has led the emissions reduction conversation for decades. But he - controversially - has recently switched tack, arguing that climate mitigation is now impossible. And irresponsible. And that we must instead put our efforts (and last resources) into trying to survive as best we can. In this chat the professor of public ethics at Charles Sturt University in Canberra, recently named a 'living legend' among Australian scholars, talks through the research published in his latest book Living Hot: Surviving and Thriving on a Heating Planet. We cover why Saul Griffith’s “electrify everything” campaign is flawed, the safest place to live and what we should now be fighting for, and we discuss the contentious issue of class and the dangerous role of private schools (strange but true) to our survival. Clive’s previous Zeitgeist-shifting books include Requiem for a Species, Growth Fetish and Affluenza. SHOW NOTESYou can get hold of Living Hot and The Privileged FewYou can read my Book Serialisation on Substack here. Here are the first two chapters, free to everyone.You can listen to my Wild conversation with Saul Griffiths here.My wonderful chat with Olivia Lazard on mineral depletion is a great backgrounder, too.--If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it’s where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet’s connect on Instagram and WeAre8180. COLLAPSE SERIES: Jonathon Rowson - Welcome to the “metacrisis”. Now what?
01:00:30||Ep. 180Hello, dear wild friends! I'm taking a short break, but I wanted to share some of my previous interviews with guests who delve into themes of collapse, the meta-crisis, and the decline of the systems we've always known to grow—like GDP, technology, population, and prosperity.Many of you have joined my book serialization project on Substack, where we're navigating the collapse awareness journey together. These interviews provide valuable context for our journey. You can join us here if you're not already part of the project. I release one chapter of my book at a time, and we discuss its contents in the comments, tackling this big, beautiful, hard thing as a community, step by step. In the meantime, enjoy this wild conversation with Jonathon Rowson.--Jonathan Rowson (chess Grandmaster, metamodernist philosopher) is one of Britain’s biggest minds and I have invited him onto Wild to talk, well, what’s been dubbed the “meta-crisis” – the fundamental “meaning” crisis at the heart of “all the things” going on in the world today.Jonathan is a theoretical psychologist with degrees from Oxford and Harvard and a Ph.D on what it means to become wiser. He has worked on “complex collective action” problem solving, was Director of the Social Brain Centre at the Royal Society of Arts and has run events with David Attenborough and Jordan Peterson (not on the same stage!). Jonathan now runs Perspectiva, a research institute that seeks to understand the relationship between systems, souls, and society. This is a big chat, but I think you’ll find this new and wild idea a helpful navigational tool for, well, “all the things”.SHOW NOTESAs I flag, my UK friends can preorder This One Wild and Precious Life here.Follow the Perspectiva community and their various events here.Jonathan is also on Substack and Twitter.His latest book The Moves that Matter: A Chess Grandmaster on the Game of Life is out now.--If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it’s where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet’s connect on Instagram and WeAre8178. COLLAPSE SERIES: Nate Hagens - On the “Great Simplification”
53:11||Ep. 178Hello, dear wild friends! I'm taking a short break, but I wanted to share some of my previous interviews with guests who delve into themes of collapse, the meta-crisis, and the decline of the systems we've always known to grow—like GDP, technology, population, and prosperity.Many of you have joined my book serialization project on Substack, where we're navigating the collapse awareness journey together. These interviews provide valuable context for our journey. You can join us here if you're not already part of the project. I release one chapter of my book at a time, and we discuss its contents in the comments, tackling this big, beautiful, hard thing as a community, step by step. In the meantime, enjoy this wild conversation with Nate Hagens.--Nate Hagens (mindblowing energy futurist) was working on Wall Street when he realised…we don’t have enough energy to fund the world’s economy! Massive pivot ensued and he is now the global leader in energy systems, director of the Institute for the Study of Energy & Our Future, on the board of the Post Carbon Institute, teaches an honours course, aptly titled Reality 101, at the University of Minnesota, oh and he also advises governments and institutes around the world on the future of energy!Nate and I met at a conference in Stockholm to address these very (meta)modern issues. In this chat we talk about how green growth is not possible, EVs are not the answer, and he makes a numbers-crunched case for how to live once collapse occurs, what he calls the “Great Simplification”. This is a big one. It changes (mostly) everything, including my own ideas about the climate crisis.SHOW NOTESYou can learn more about Nate's work here and listen to his podcast hereI also mention previous episodes with Tyson Yunkaporta, Douglas Rushkoff and Gaya Herrington--If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it’s where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet’s connect on Instagram and WeAre8177. COLLAPSE SERIES: Margaret Wheatley - An episode on civilization collapse (warning: truly confronting)
51:00||Ep. 177Hello, dear wild friends! I'm taking a short break, but I wanted to share some of my previous interviews with guests who delve into themes of collapse, the meta-crisis, and the decline of the systems we've always known to grow—like GDP, technology, population, and prosperity.Many of you have joined my book serialization project on Substack, where we're navigating the collapse awareness journey together. These interviews provide valuable context for our journey. You can join us here if you're not already part of the project. I release one chapter of my book at a time, and we discuss its contents in the comments, tackling this big, beautiful, hard thing as a community, step by step. In the meantime, enjoy this wild conversation with Meg Wheatley.--Margaret Wheatley (collapse theorist, global leadership consultant) is something of a legend in her field. She has worked for 50 years helping humans adapt to their world using systems analysis, chaos theory and deep spiritualism. Poets, scientists and philosophers quote her writing, she has worked in countless disaster situations and was commissioned to transform the leadership of large institutions. Plus she’s the author of 12 books, including Who Do We Choose to Be? and Restoring Sanity. This is a challenging conversation and the subject has its deniers. Meg steers our focus to becoming the leaders we want to see amid the cascading crises facing the world and to create “islands of sanity” amid the despair. In this conversation, we cover the responsibility of the rich, why it’s redundant to talk about saving the world, and how to sit in despair and create a meaningful life from it all.SHOW NOTESMeg references the poet David Whyte who has also been a guest on WildYou can purchase Who Do We Choose to Be? now and Restoring Sanity Find out about her workshops and events here--If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it’s where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet’s connect on Instagram and WeAre8176. COLLAPSE SERIES: Gaya Herrington - Complete global collapse by 2040? The prediction is “right on track”
53:44||Ep. 176Hello, dear wild friends! I'm taking a short break, but I wanted to share some of my previous interviews with guests who delve into themes of collapse, the meta-crisis, and the decline of the systems we've always known to grow—like GDP, technology, population, and prosperity.Many of you have joined my book serialization project on Substack, where we're navigating the collapse awareness journey together. These interviews provide valuable context for our journey. You can join us here if you're not already part of the project. I release one chapter of my book at a time, and we discuss its contents in the comments, tackling this big, beautiful, hard thing as a community, step by step. In the meantime, enjoy this wild conversation with Gaya Herrington.--Gaya Herrington (Club of Rome adviser, “global collapse” expert) hit the headlines when she showed that a world-stopping 1972 MIT study and bestselling book predicting the collapse of civilisation by 2040 was…right on track. She was a KPMG economist and financial advisor to the Dutch government when she released the report in 2021. I read it and was left speechless.Gaya’s now just published a book, Five Insights for Avoiding Global Collapse, which sets out a bunch of surprising ways we might be able to save ourselves in time. Gaya’s message is stark: Economic growth must stop now! We are hitting the global limits of our more-more-more approach and the decline will be fast. What does the data tell us that can save us? The answer won’t be what you’re expecting. In this chat we flesh out how systems theory works, why we’re obsessed with growth and why rich white men resist change the most.SHOW NOTESGet hold of the book Five Insights for Avoiding Global CollapseFeel free to read the now-famous 1972 paper The Limits to GrowthI mention the chat about the Indigenous knowledge system with Tyson Yunkaporta, you can listen to it here--If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it’s where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet’s connect on Instagram and WeAre8