Trapped: The IPP Prisoner Scandal

Today’s episode is an exclusive interview with Martin Jones CBE, who was appointed His Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Probation in March 2024. Prior to that, he was Chief Executive of the Parole Board from 2015.Sam meets Martin Jones at the MOJ building, 102 Petty France, Westminster in July 2024 to discuss the IPP scandal in the shadow of the looming prisons crisis. It had been a big week for criminal justice: the new Justice Minister, Shabana Mahmood had just announced she was dealing with the crisis by allowing the early release of prisoners on standard determinate sentences after serving 40% of their sentences in custody. However, Martin tells Sam that 97% of probation areas are falling short of expectations, an extraordinary figure which starkly highlights a system that is not only in crisis, but has spectacularly failed. Martin’s message to the new government is that they need to invest in an already struggling probation service. The system is broken everywhere and there are no quick fixes. And he says he hopes the new government will “look again” at IPP sentences, which are “hugely costly, hugely burdensome for the system”.Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram | @Trapped_PodTrapped Substack: https://trappedpodcast.substack.com/ For more info about the IPP campaign visit UNGRIPP | www.ungripp.com | @UNGRIPP | And the IPP Committee In Action @ActionIppContributors in order of appearance:Martin Jones CBE, HM Chief Inspector of Probation | @jones_martinwVoices in Archive:Shabana Mahmood, Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor | @ShabanaMahmoodCredits:Reporter: Samantha Asumadu | @SamanthaAsumaduExecutive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald | @melissafitzgProducer: Steve Langridge | @SMLANGERSConsultant: Hank RossiAn Ear Worm Production for the Institute of Now

Rob and Sara’s story. Sam investigates the impact of recall on IPP prisoners in the community. Change is finally coming - how will it affect them?  Rob was given an IPP sentence in 2008 and he’s been recalled back to prison 4 times since then. His partner Sara is a campaigner with UNGRIPP, The United Group for Reform of IPP: they met through the work she was doing. Sam meets them in Manchester in May 2024, just as the Victim’s and Prisoner’s Bill is making its way towards a conclusion in Parliament. This bill is bringing in significant reforms to the way that IPP prisoner’s licenses work.   The IPP license period will be changed from 10 to 3 years for termination with a sunset clause which means that if the license is not terminated at the direction of the Parole Board after 3 years, it will be automatically terminated after a further two years. This will have a direct impact on Rob and other IPP prisoners on license in the community, like him. But behind the headlines are real stories about real people, so Sam is keen to find out how prisoners on license like Rob are coping. She also speaks to the prison lawyers Emma McClure and Andrew Sperling and Dr Alice Edwards the UK Special Rapporteur to get their takes on the recall ‘merry-go-round'.  Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram @Trapped_Pod For more info about UNGRIPP visit: www.ungripp.com / @UNGRIPP Trapped Substack: https://trappedpodcast.substack.com/  Contributors in order of appearance:  Rob Dutton, IPP prisoner on license Sara Ramsden, Rob’s partner and campaigner Emma McClure, Prison Law Solicitor  Andrew Sperling, Solicitor Advocate @AndrewSperling Dr. Alice Edwards, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture @DrAliceJEdwards  Credits:  Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumadu Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzg Producer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERS Consultant: Hank Rossi  A Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now 

Mary and Martin Myer’s story. We also hear from two people who head up their unions, working with IPP prisoners on the front line: the prison officers and prisoner governors.Martin Myers comes from an Irish Traveller family. They’re a minority group in the UK, often discriminated against. On the 8th March 2006, Martin was given an IPP sentence with a tariff of 19 months and 27 days. Apart from one stint of freedom for 10 weeks towards the end of 2023, he’s been locked away in prison. Today Sam meets Mary, Martin’s mother, to hear their story.In 2006 Martin received his IPP sentence after he approached a young man in Luton, where he lived, and asked him for a cigarette. The man made a derogatory comment about travellers. Martin threatened to punch the young man if he didn’t give him the cigarette, the man ran away and reported Martin Myers to the police, saying he was carrying a small ‘spud’ knife.Sam also meets Mark Fairhurst, National chair of the Prison Officers Association and Tom Wheatley, the newly appointed President of the Prison Governors Association. They discuss the underfunded and under-resourced prison system, prison conditions, mental health provisions for IPP prisoners and the aftermath of self-inflicted deaths. They both have strong words for the government with the general election on the horizon. Finally she hears how the campaign continues to fight for resentencing IPP prisoners, as Richard Garside from the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies explains. Please be advised that this episode contains references to self-harm and suicide.Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram @Trapped_PodFor more info about UNGRIPP visit: www.ungripp.com / @UNGRIPPThanks to The Howard League for Penal Reform @TheHowardLeagueContributors in order of appearance:Mary Myers, Mother of serving IPP prisoner Martin MyersAnn McMaster, friend and support worker to Mary MyersMark Fairhurst, National chair of the Prison Officers Association Tom Wheatley, President of the Prison Governors Association | @PGA_PrisonsRichard Garside, Director of the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies | @richardjgarsideVoices in Archive:Sir Bob Neil, former chair of the Justice Select Committee | @neill_bobCredits:Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumaduExecutive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzgProducer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERSConsultant: Hank RossiA Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now

Wayne Bell’s story, plus Sam speaks to Dr Alice Edwards, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture about her intervention in the campaign for IPP justice. Today Sam travels to Manchester to speak to Alana Bell, whose brother Wayne Bell was sentenced to an IPP sentence with a 2 year tariff in 2007 for assaulting someone and stealing their bike. He was 17. Wayne is now 34: he’s spent his entire adult life in prison. Like many other IPP prisoners, Wayne didn't know what an IPP sentence was until he was knocked back at parole. He then made efforts at completing offender behaviour programmes when available, enrolled in a mechanics course, went to the gym. After a parole hearing in 2015, by which point he had been in prison 6 years past his original tariff, he was again knocked back. His health and behaviour deteriorated. On 12 April 2018, Wayne was found in a catatonic state in his cell: conscious but unresponsive. He was transferred to a secure mental health hospital where, once a week, he was given electro­convulsive therapy, a treatment for schizophrenia that felt like another form of punishment. We hear about of the awful toll his IPP sentence has taken on Wayne and his family, who currently don't know which prison he is in.  Sam also speaks to Dr. Alice Edwards, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture. In 2023, a group of IPP campaigners, prisoners, and their families, submitted evidence via the UN's website of sustained human rights breaches as part of the IPP sentence: they got Dr Edward’s attention, and she started looking into the IPP scandal in the UK. In August 2023 Dr Edwards wrote a letter to the British Government calling on "Your Excellency’s Government to conduct a re-sentencing exercise for all remaining IPP-sentenced individuals - and provide them with access to adequate reparation, as appropriate - without delay. We also call on the Government, in the meantime, to step up efforts to secure rehabilitation opportunities for all those affected.” She has also called the IPP sentence “psychological torture”. What has happened since her intervention? Campaigners have warned that reforms are a matter of life and death for IPP prisoners after almost 90 suicides. Are the British government listening?You can read Dr Edward's letter to the British Government here: https://spcommreports.ohchr.org/TMResultsBase/DownLoadPublicCommunicationFile?gId=28329  Get in touch with the Trapped team on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram @Trapped_Pod For more info about the IPP campaign for justice, visit UNGRIPP www.ungripp.com / @UNGRIPP / IPP Committee in Action @ActionIpp Contributors in order of appearance: Alana Bell, Sister of IPP prisoner, Wayne Bell Dr. Alice Edwards, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture @DrAliceJEdwards Production credits: Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumadu Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzg Producer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERS Consultant: Hank Rossi A Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now

The inside story of the measures being taken by members of the House of Lords for IPP prisoners in the current parliamentary Victims and Prisoners Bill. We join Sam on 11th March 2024, three months after the inquest of Matthew Price, an IPP prisoner on license who took his own life, and one day before the Victims and Prisoners bill committee stage in the House of Lords. The two are linked because this bill is being heralded as perhaps the last opportunity for some time to use legislation to finally close the chapter on imprisonment for public protection sentences (IPPs) which the United Nations have called ‘cruel, inhuman and degrading’. The bill came to the Lords with an amendment which will change the license conditions for IPPs from 10 to 3 years, which might well have saved Matthew Price, who killed himself at the 10-year point of his license. So it's a start, but many think this is not enough, and at this stage there’s an incredible 17 amendments which relate to IPPs, pinned to the Victims and Prisoners Bill. Sam takes us behind the scenes to look closer at the Lord’s amendments, asking how much difference can they make? Can they really change the story on IPPs? Sam meets Lord Moylan who has been coordinating a group of Lords to table the amendments to the Bill. We hear more about his proposed change to the release test for IPP prisoners. She also sits down with Baroness Claire Fox, who is tabling the amendment on resentencing. This was originally proposed by Sir Bob Neil, Chair of the Justice Select Committee, and was rejected by the government back in 2023. Conservative Peer, Earl Attlee is the Grandson of the famous post-war Labour PM. He has long held an interest in criminal justice. He isn't confident that any of the amendments will get much support once they go back to the Commons and describes the political calculations being made by both the Labour and Conservative front benches. Sam also catches up with Matthew Price’s lawyers Emma McClure and Andrew Sperling following Matthew’s inquest. The coroner released a Prevention of Future Deaths report on how the IPP sentence contributed to Matthew’s death, urging the Secretary of State for Justice to act and stop any further deaths occurring. This is one of an unprecedented three Prevention of Future Death notices relating to IPP prisoners, which have been sent to the Government this year. At the Lord's debate on 12th March, the Labour Spokesperson for Justice, Lord Ponsonby and the Conservative Spokesperson for Justice, Lord Bellamy present a united front in opposing Baroness Fox's amendment: is it the end of the road for resentencing IPP prisoners? Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook, IG @Trapped_PodFollow the campaigners: www.ungripp.com @UNGRIPP & @ActionIPP Contributors in order of appearance: Lord Daniel MoylanBaroness Fox of BerkeleyJohn Richard Attlee, The 3rd Earl AttleeEmma McClure, Consultant SolicitorAndrew Sperling, Solicitor AdvocateCredits: Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumaduExecutive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzgProducer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERSConsultant: Hank Rossi A Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now

The IPP sentence has created a sense of hopelessness amongst prisoners, leading to poor mental health, self-harm and numerous suicides, so we are ending this series by asking ‘what does hope look like’ for IPP serving prisoners? Sam asks this question to some of the many people who are campaigning to bring an end to this grievous injustice: including Andrea Coomber, from the Howard League for Penal Reform; Richard Garside from the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies; Simon Hattenstone from the Guardian and Elisabeth Davies from the Independent Monitoring Boards. We also hear from Frank, an IPP serving prisoner, who has been inside for 15 years and counting, on a two-and-a-half-year tariff.  Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram @Trapped_PodFor more info about UNGRIPP visit: www.ungripp.com / @UNGRIPPww.ippcommitteeinaction.com / X @ActionIPPContributors in order of appearance:Frank, IPP serving prisonerLord David BlunkettAndrea Coomber, Chief Executive, The Howard League for Penal ReformHank Rossi, campaigner and activistSimon Hattenstone, Journalist, The GuardianRichard Garside, Director of Centre for Crime and Justice StudiesElizabeth Davies, National Chair of the Independent Monitoring BoardsLorna Hackett, Barrister at Hackett and Dabbs LLP and a tenant at Millennium ChambersAlexander Horne, Barrister and visiting Professor at Durham UniversityVoices in Archive:Edward Argar MP, Minister of State for Prisons, Parole and ProbationSir Bob Neil MP, Chair of the Justice Select CommitteeKevin Brennan MP, Shadow Minister for Victims and SentencingJohn Mcdonnell MPDr Alice Edwards, UN Special Rapporteur on TortureCredits:Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumaduExecutive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzgProducer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERSConsultant: Hank RossiA Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now