The New Music Business with Ari Herstand

This week Ari sits down with Liz Pelly, a prominent music journalist and author of the new book Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist. Liz’s journalism has appeared in NPR, The Guardian, and Pitchfork among other prestigious publications. Preceded by an exposé in Harper’s Magazine, Pelly’s latest work, Mood Machine, pulls back the curtain on Spotify’s exploitative practices and uncovers how those practices impact artists and listeners. In this episode, Liz gives the low down on research she conducted for the book and explains how Spotify has unfairly conspired with major labels since its launch. As she does in Mood Machine, Liz calls out Spotify’s Perfect Fit Content (PFC) program and explains how its use of ghost artists degrades the integrity of their model for all. Ari and Liz discuss the value of music and how that can differ in the eyes of major corporations and individuals. Whether you’re an artist, label, or listener who uses Spotify, this episode will help you understand the impact Spotify’s model has on your relationship to music.https://www.instagram.com/lizpelly Harper’s article: https://harpers.org/archive/2025/01/the-ghosts-in-the-machine-liz-pelly-spotify-musicians/Chapters00:00 The Inner Workings of Spotify12:48 Ghost Artists and the PFC Program37:50 Spotify's Launch and Major Label Relationships41:26 The Evolution of Streaming Contracts44:14 Valuing Music: A Cultural Perspective49:43 The Impact of Streaming on Music Value56:10 Algorithms and the Personalization of Music01:01:20 The Role of Music in Society01:07:23 Future Solutions for Musicians01:19:38 Defining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

This week Ari sits down with Luis Navarro and Joel Niño Jr. of the duo Twin Tribes. This dark wave band out of Brownsville, TX has been gaining impressive momentum on the gothic scene—and they’re doing it entirely DIY. Twin Tribes releases their music through DistroKid and has over 30 million streams with nearly a million monthly listeners on Spotify alone. They have toured the world and managed their growing success completely independently.In this episode, Twin Tribes tells Ari all about how they’ve built their DIY operation from the ground up. They share about how they’ve partnered with record labels to utilize their physical product offerings (CDs, cassette tapes, vinyls, etc) while still maintaining full independence as artists. Luis and Joel also break down the potent visuals behind the Twin Tribes brand and how they developed their aesthetic. This conversation is an inspiring example of how finding your niche and building a DIY community can help catapult your career. https://www.instagram.com/twin_tribes/Chapters00:00 The Genesis of Twin Tribes02:53 Building a DIY Community06:03 The Role of Aesthetics in Music08:51 Discovering the Gothic Scene12:13 The Cassette Era and Initial Releases15:10 Growing Through Live Performances17:58 Transitioning to Full-Time Musicians20:51 Strategic Partnerships and Touring24:04 The Evolution of Their Sound and Success28:21 Navigating DIY Music Partnerships30:42 Building a Digital Strategy for Streaming Success36:24 Creating Ambitious Music Videos44:23 Crafting a Cohesive Aesthetic and Vision50:36 Engaging with Fans and Community53:04 Looking Ahead: Future Plans for Twin TribesEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

This week Ari sits down with Alex Taggart, an expert on the Chinese music market. Alex spent 10 years in China overseeing local strategy for clients such as Dua Lipa, Diplo, Lauv, John Legend and so many more. He now works independently, managing artists through his own company, Isle of Management. Alex’s main focus is bringing globally-minded talent to local audiences worldwide.This conversation gives a comprehensive introduction to the Chinese music industry. Whether you’re well-versed in this market or know virtually nothing about it, you will learn a ton from this episode. Alex highlights various DSPs used in China (i.e. their versions of Spotify/Apple music) and explains the inner workings of Chinese social platforms. If you’re an artist looking to break into China, Alex offers actionable steps to get your music on their radar. In fact, you might already be big in China and not even realize it! Alex shares important info about how to check your music’s traction in China. If you’re interested in booking shows or touring through the country, this episode is for you, too. Enjoy this breakdown of the multifaceted Chinese music market!https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-taggart-music/ Chapters00:00 Collaborating for Success in China01:51 Understanding the Chinese Music Market07:55 Music Consumption and Streaming Platforms in China15:59 Checking Your Traction in China20:38 Revenue Streams for Artists23:57 Monetization in the Chinese Music Industry35:41 Navigating Publishing and Rights Management37:07 Understanding China's Music Publishing Landscape40:01 Navigating the Challenges of Music Rights in China44:27 Exploring Touring Opportunities in China49:50 Strategies for Artists to Break into the Chinese Market54:12 The Role of Competition Shows in Artist Development01:01:19 Leveraging Collaborations for Market Entry01:12:01 Defining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

This week Ari sits down with Tor Hermansen, half of the production/songwriter duo Stargate. Stargate has written and produced major hit songs for artists such as Beyonce, Rihanna, Selena Gomez, Katy Perry, and Coldplay, to name a few. Tor has billions of streams, has written and produced 10 Billboard Hot 100 #1 singles in the US and 11 in the UK. He has won 2 Grammy Awards and received the ASCAP songwriter of the year award twice. Stargate’s writer and producer credits include Beyoncé’s global hit “Irreplaceable,” Beyoncé and Shakira’s “Beautiful Liar,” extensive work with Rihanna including “Rude Boy,” “Don’t Stop The Music,” “Only Girl (In the World),” What’s My Name, “S&M, “Diamonds,” Selena Gomez’ “Come & Get It” and “Same Old Love,” Fifth Harmony’s “Worth It” and Katy Perry’s “Firework.” Most recently, the team produced Coldplay’s album A Head Full of Dreams, co-wrote and produced Julia Michael’s current hit “Issues.”Tor talks about the process of songwriting and producing, working with artists and topliners. He shares great advice on how to write and work in the room with other songwriters, producers, and topliners. Tor also shares valuable insight on demoing, writing, re-writing, scaling up a musical production, and more. Ari and Tor dive deep into the business end of songwriting and producing as well; they discuss the 9-month intensive LAAMP program (Los Angeles Academy for Artists and Music Producers) Tor and his Stargate partner Mikkel Eriksen created for aspiring artists, songwriters, and producers in LA and how to get involved. If you’re interested in how songwriting and producing works at the hit level, this episode is for you!https://www.instagram.com/stargate/https://www.laampmusic.com/Chapters00:00 No Compromising in Music Creation00:33 Introduction to Tora Hermanson and Stargate02:51 Songwriting and Production Process Insights04:41 The Evolution of Music Production10:19 The Pitch Game: Is It Dead?13:14 Identifying a Hit: The Unpredictable Nature16:03 The Role of Social Media in Music Success18:52 Adapting to New Mediums: TikTok and Streaming21:27 The Creation of 'Issues' with Julia Michaels24:41 Evolving Production Techniques27:51 Collaboration and Song Development30:33 Creative Freedom in the Final Product32:11 The Art of Collaboration in Songwriting37:01 Navigating the Songwriting Process46:59 The Business of Songwriting and Representation49:16 Building a Career as a Songwriter56:45 Creating a Nurturing Environment for Artists01:04:50 Defining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

This week Ari sits down with George Karalexis & Donna Budica, the co-founders and CEO/COO (respectively) of TEN2 Media, a content distribution and marketing company that helps artists and labels maximize revenue and growth on YouTube. TEN2 Media partners with Warner Music Group, UnitedMasters, Travis Barker, Benson Boone, Brent Faiyaz, and more. They specialize in marketing, monetization, and collection on the YouTube platform, all of which you’ll hear about in this episode. This entire episode is dedicated to YouTube for music—artists and labels in particular. Donna and George share stats about how listeners interact with YouTube, how people discover new music on the platform, and what it means that YouTube is the #1 music discovery platform right now. They break down the components of YouTube monetization and do a deep dive into companies that help artists manage their YouTube channels and revenue. If you’re wondering how to up your YouTube game, the most effective ways to use YouTube these days, and all the various tools that exist on the platform (shorts, music videos, vlog content, lyric videos, playlists, storytelling, UGC [user-generated content], etc.), this is the episode for you.https://www.ten2.media/Kristin Robinson Billboard Article: How Did Two Unknown Latin Music Operators Make $23 Million From YouTube? The IRS Says They Stole ItChapters00:00 The Evolution of YouTube in Music03:13 Understanding YouTube's Unique Role06:02 Strategies for Artists on YouTube08:49 The Power of YouTube Analytics12:07 Monetization Mechanics on YouTube15:00 Navigating YouTube's Revenue Streams37:12 Understanding YouTube's Viewer Demographics40:09 The Evolution of Cover Videos and UGC42:55 The Long Game: YouTube vs. TikTok43:51 Strategies for Emerging Artists48:03 Navigating YouTube's Complex Revenue System56:13 The Future of Distribution for Indie Artists01:01:25 Filling the Void for Emerging Artists01:09:01 When to Start Taking YouTube Seriously01:12:07 Defining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

This week Ari sits down with Cody Fry, a multi-instrumentalist, singer, songwriter, and orchestral arranger known for his symphonic arrangements of his own music and other artists’ songs. Cody has been nominated for two grammys for arranging: this year for his adaptation of “The Sound of Silence” and previously for “Eleanor Rigby.” An incredible musician all around, Cody has found his niche fronting orchestras in a way that appeals to pop music lovers around the world.Cody has played Walt Disney Concert Hall with the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra, the Kennedy Center, and has hundreds of millions of streams online. In 2021, his song “I Hear a Symphony” (which had already been out for five years) went viral on TikTok and landed Cody a major record deal. In this episode, Cody talks about what it was like working with a major label and the specifics of his record deal. He also tells Ari why he decided to eventually leave the label and go independent once again. https://www.codyfry.com/Chapters00:00 The Artist's Journey: From Aspiration to Independence02:50 Cody Fry: The Orchestral Innovator06:02 Crafting Sound: The Art of Orchestration08:52 Finding Your Unique Sound as an Artist11:58 The Viral Breakthrough: TikTok and Its Impact15:08 Navigating Record Deals: Insights and Experiences18:02 The Transition to Independence: A New Chapter20:52 Performing with Orchestras: A Unique Experience23:55 The Future of Music: Independence and Innovation39:54 Navigating the Music Business Without a Manager42:44 The Importance of Team Members in Music43:14 Non-Traditional Team Members and Their Roles46:07 Managing Sheet Music and Publishing Rights54:35 Exploring Alternative Revenue Streams for Artists01:01:09 Creating Engaging Content for a Niche Audience01:04:02 Future Aspirations and New Music Projects01:08:13 Understanding the Value of Record Deals01:19:37 The Evolving Landscape of the Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com

This week Ari sits down with Heather Vassar, the Senior Vice President at EMPIRE—a fully independent record label, publishing company, and distributor. Heather’s career began at Universal Music Group Nashville, where she developed digital strategy for renowned artists such as George Strait, Luke Bryan, Carrie Underwood, Kacey Musgraves, Chris Stapleton, and Keith Urban. In 2019, Heather joined EMPIRE where she now plays a pivotal role in operations, marketing, and strategy for a diverse roster of artists including Shaboozey, Wyatt Flores, Niko Moon, Sophia Scott, Don Louis, Reyna Roberts, Tenille Arts, and Randy Houser.Heather and Ari discuss the incredible success of Shaboozey’s “A Bar Song (Tipsy)” which has been number one on the Billboard Hot 100 charts for 19 weeks straight—the longest any song has held that position. Heather reveals how this hit (released on an indie label) became the biggest song in the world and how they have sustained its momentum. She shares the entire journey from signing Shaboozey, to putting out his initial singles, releasing his album, collaborating with Beyonce, all the way to his massive global success today. Thanks to her extensive experience at both major and independent labels, Heather has sharp insights to share about deal structures, ownership models, artist development, and how the industry has shifted (in the majors and the indies) over the last five years, all of which you’ll hear about in this episode.https://www.instagram.com/hvassar/00:00 The Hustle Behind Success02:49 Empire Records: A New Era in Music06:07 Shaboozey’s Journey to Stardom09:12 Navigating the Independent Label Landscape12:01 The Creative Process: From Songwriting to Release14:50 Breaking Through: The Success of “A Bar Song (Tipsy)”18:07 The Role of Radio in Today's Music Industry20:49 Building a Fanbase: The Digital Approach24:02 The Importance of Flexibility in Music Releases33:56 Navigating Legalities in Music Production39:08 Strategic Album Rollout and Market Timing45:51 Building a Global Music Infrastructure50:02 Maintaining Momentum After a Hit Release55:04 Balancing Art and Market Trends01:00:10 Educating Artists in the Digital AgeEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com