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The New Music Business with Ari Herstand
Haley Joelle on Staying DIY With TikTok Fame and Spotify Love
Order THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com
Haley Joelle is a 24-year-old songwriter and artist from outside of Portland, OR, currently based in LA. Haley is known for her unique and specific approach to storytelling in her songs that have resonated with millions of people around the world. Her lyrics touch on family dynamics, the complications of growing up, grief, and heartbreak - all lending themselves to help her listeners feel less alone.
Haley’s songs have been discovered on popular playlists including Spotify’s Chilled Hits, Chill Pop, Fresh & Chill, Sad Hour, Sad Songs, Today’s Singer-Songwriters, Morning Commute, Mellow Evening, and Apple Music’s Breaking Pop, In My Room, Acoustic Chill, Today’s Acoustic, Acoustic Memories, and New Music Daily. Her songs have been streamed more than 100 million times, and featured in Amazon Prime Video’s #1 most watched non-English language original movie, ‘Culpa Mía’ as well as the popular TV shows ‘Love Island USA’ and ‘Love Island Games.’
After a couple tour support slots, and with 450k+ engaged fans around the world, she embarked on her first mini headline tour in December 2023 after the release of her album ‘Me And My Past.’ Haley’s next album is due September 2024.
00:00 - Intro
03:55 - Haley’s songwriting and album process
15:52 - Alternative music programs and networking
21:50 - How did Haley find other collaborators?
29:29 - Haley on music videos
34:07 - On staying independent and talking to labels
43:07 - Pitching for playlist inclusions
55:23 - Where does the money go?
Subscribe to The New Music Business: https://aristake.com/new-music-business-podcast/
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Watch more discussions like this: https://bit.ly/3LavMpa
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X: https://twitter.com/ArisTake
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Connect with Ari Herstand:
Website: https://ariherstand.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/ariherstand
X: https://twitter.com/ariherstand
YouTube: https://youtube.com/ariherstand
Connect with Haley Joelle :
Website: https://haley-joelle-merch.myshopify.com/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4pZOG8ump4odtJJA4Cy7S8
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itshaleyjoelle/
X: https://x.com/itshaleyjoelle
Edited and mixed by Ari Davids
Music by Brassroots District
Produced by the team at Ari’s Take
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3. He Wrote/Produced 10 #1 Hit Songs: Stargate's Tor Hermansen on How To Do It
01:05:21||Season 6, Ep. 3This week Ari sits down with Tor Hermansen, half of the production/songwriter duo Stargate. Stargate has written and produced major hit songs for artists such as Beyonce, Rihanna, Selena Gomez, Katy Perry, and Coldplay, to name a few. Tor has billions of streams, has written and produced 10 Billboard Hot 100 #1 singles in the US and 11 in the UK. He has won 2 Grammy Awards and received the ASCAP songwriter of the year award twice. Stargate’s writer and producer credits include Beyoncé’s global hit “Irreplaceable,” Beyoncé and Shakira’s “Beautiful Liar,” extensive work with Rihanna including “Rude Boy,” “Don’t Stop The Music,” “Only Girl (In the World),” What’s My Name, “S&M, “Diamonds,” Selena Gomez’ “Come & Get It” and “Same Old Love,” Fifth Harmony’s “Worth It” and Katy Perry’s “Firework.” Most recently, the team produced Coldplay’s album A Head Full of Dreams, co-wrote and produced Julia Michael’s current hit “Issues.”Tor talks about the process of songwriting and producing, working with artists and topliners. He shares great advice on how to write and work in the room with other songwriters, producers, and topliners. Tor also shares valuable insight on demoing, writing, re-writing, scaling up a musical production, and more. Ari and Tor dive deep into the business end of songwriting and producing as well; they discuss the 9-month intensive LAAMP program (Los Angeles Academy for Artists and Music Producers) Tor and his Stargate partner Mikkel Eriksen created for aspiring artists, songwriters, and producers in LA and how to get involved. If you’re interested in how songwriting and producing works at the hit level, this episode is for you!https://www.instagram.com/stargate/https://www.laampmusic.com/Chapters00:00 No Compromising in Music Creation00:33 Introduction to Tora Hermanson and Stargate02:51 Songwriting and Production Process Insights04:41 The Evolution of Music Production10:19 The Pitch Game: Is It Dead?13:14 Identifying a Hit: The Unpredictable Nature16:03 The Role of Social Media in Music Success18:52 Adapting to New Mediums: TikTok and Streaming21:27 The Creation of 'Issues' with Julia Michaels24:41 Evolving Production Techniques27:51 Collaboration and Song Development30:33 Creative Freedom in the Final Product32:11 The Art of Collaboration in Songwriting37:01 Navigating the Songwriting Process46:59 The Business of Songwriting and Representation49:16 Building a Career as a Songwriter56:45 Creating a Nurturing Environment for Artists01:04:50 Defining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com2. How YouTube Works for Music
01:14:08||Season 6, Ep. 2This week Ari sits down with George Karalexis & Donna Budica, the co-founders and CEO/COO (respectively) of TEN2 Media, a content distribution and marketing company that helps artists and labels maximize revenue and growth on YouTube. TEN2 Media partners with Warner Music Group, UnitedMasters, Travis Barker, Benson Boone, Brent Faiyaz, and more. They specialize in marketing, monetization, and collection on the YouTube platform, all of which you’ll hear about in this episode. This entire episode is dedicated to YouTube for music—artists and labels in particular. Donna and George share stats about how listeners interact with YouTube, how people discover new music on the platform, and what it means that YouTube is the #1 music discovery platform right now. They break down the components of YouTube monetization and do a deep dive into companies that help artists manage their YouTube channels and revenue. If you’re wondering how to up your YouTube game, the most effective ways to use YouTube these days, and all the various tools that exist on the platform (shorts, music videos, vlog content, lyric videos, playlists, storytelling, UGC [user-generated content], etc.), this is the episode for you.https://www.ten2.media/Kristin Robinson Billboard Article: How Did Two Unknown Latin Music Operators Make $23 Million From YouTube? The IRS Says They Stole ItChapters00:00 The Evolution of YouTube in Music03:13 Understanding YouTube's Unique Role06:02 Strategies for Artists on YouTube08:49 The Power of YouTube Analytics12:07 Monetization Mechanics on YouTube15:00 Navigating YouTube's Revenue Streams37:12 Understanding YouTube's Viewer Demographics40:09 The Evolution of Cover Videos and UGC42:55 The Long Game: YouTube vs. TikTok43:51 Strategies for Emerging Artists48:03 Navigating YouTube's Complex Revenue System56:13 The Future of Distribution for Indie Artists01:01:25 Filling the Void for Emerging Artists01:09:01 When to Start Taking YouTube Seriously01:12:07 Defining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com1. Cody Fry on Leaving a Major Record Label and Finding His Niche Fronting Orchestras
01:21:54||Season 6, Ep. 1This week Ari sits down with Cody Fry, a multi-instrumentalist, singer, songwriter, and orchestral arranger known for his symphonic arrangements of his own music and other artists’ songs. Cody has been nominated for two grammys for arranging: this year for his adaptation of “The Sound of Silence” and previously for “Eleanor Rigby.” An incredible musician all around, Cody has found his niche fronting orchestras in a way that appeals to pop music lovers around the world.Cody has played Walt Disney Concert Hall with the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra, the Kennedy Center, and has hundreds of millions of streams online. In 2021, his song “I Hear a Symphony” (which had already been out for five years) went viral on TikTok and landed Cody a major record deal. In this episode, Cody talks about what it was like working with a major label and the specifics of his record deal. He also tells Ari why he decided to eventually leave the label and go independent once again. https://www.codyfry.com/Chapters00:00 The Artist's Journey: From Aspiration to Independence02:50 Cody Fry: The Orchestral Innovator06:02 Crafting Sound: The Art of Orchestration08:52 Finding Your Unique Sound as an Artist11:58 The Viral Breakthrough: TikTok and Its Impact15:08 Navigating Record Deals: Insights and Experiences18:02 The Transition to Independence: A New Chapter20:52 Performing with Orchestras: A Unique Experience23:55 The Future of Music: Independence and Innovation39:54 Navigating the Music Business Without a Manager42:44 The Importance of Team Members in Music43:14 Non-Traditional Team Members and Their Roles46:07 Managing Sheet Music and Publishing Rights54:35 Exploring Alternative Revenue Streams for Artists01:01:09 Creating Engaging Content for a Niche Audience01:04:02 Future Aspirations and New Music Projects01:08:13 Understanding the Value of Record Deals01:19:37 The Evolving Landscape of the Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com44. Can The Music Industry Be a Safe Place?
01:00:15||Season 5, Ep. 44This week Ari sits down with Katie Tucker, a double-platinum songwriter, vocal producer, studio owner, and the visionary behind Sharp Edges Records with its accompanying recording studio. As a songwriter, Katie has crafted hit songs for renowned artists like Namie Amuro, BoA, and Jota Quest. She has amassed millions of streams as a recording artist and her music has been featured on major platforms including ABC, USA, VH1, Fox, Disney, Peacock, and Hulu. A defining moment in her career came with "Do It For Love," featured on Namie Amuro's album Finally, cementing her status as a double-platinum songwriter.These days, however, Katie spends most of her time in advocacy and running Sharp Edges Records. One of the main reasons Katie started her record label/studio was to create a safe space for her clients within the industry. Katie started No Creeps!, an event and movement advocating for mental health, safety, and inclusivity in the music industry as a further expression of her advocacy. This conversation goes deep into safety and inclusion in music and recording. In this conversation, Katie offers tangible resources for how we can all participate in making this industry a safer and more supportive place for everyone. Katie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katiesharpedges/Women In Music Safe(r) Spaces Resource Directory: https://www.womeninmusic.org/saferspacesNo Creeps! Digital Resource Zine: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uk87S0hmxSsHaEXCTieSuz3AiwcaKs-x/view?usp=drivesdkChapters:00:00 Creating Safe Spaces in the Music Industry03:08 The Journey to Sharp Edges Records05:56 The Importance of Vulnerability in Music Creation09:06 Navigating Safety and Inclusivity in Recording Studios11:52 Concrete Steps for a Safer Music Environment15:11 Understanding the Spectrum of Safety Concerns18:00 Educating for Change: The Role of Communication20:50 Empowering Artists Through Advocacy30:20 Addressing Abuse of Power in the Music Industry32:11 The No Creeps! Initiative: Creating Safe Spaces36:19 Empowering Voices: Sharing Experiences and Education41:11 The Importance of Allyship and Advocacy46:24 Navigating Imperfection: Learning from Experiences52:35 Resources for Safety and Support in the Industry56:21 Redefining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com43. Selling out Clubs With Very Few Followers? This DIY Band Is Making It Happen.
56:51||Season 5, Ep. 4342. How Shaboozey's "A Bar Song (Tipsy)" Made History and Became the Biggest Song in the World
01:07:13||Season 5, Ep. 42This week Ari sits down with Heather Vassar, the Senior Vice President at EMPIRE—a fully independent record label, publishing company, and distributor. Heather’s career began at Universal Music Group Nashville, where she developed digital strategy for renowned artists such as George Strait, Luke Bryan, Carrie Underwood, Kacey Musgraves, Chris Stapleton, and Keith Urban. In 2019, Heather joined EMPIRE where she now plays a pivotal role in operations, marketing, and strategy for a diverse roster of artists including Shaboozey, Wyatt Flores, Niko Moon, Sophia Scott, Don Louis, Reyna Roberts, Tenille Arts, and Randy Houser.Heather and Ari discuss the incredible success of Shaboozey’s “A Bar Song (Tipsy)” which has been number one on the Billboard Hot 100 charts for 19 weeks straight—the longest any song has held that position. Heather reveals how this hit (released on an indie label) became the biggest song in the world and how they have sustained its momentum. She shares the entire journey from signing Shaboozey, to putting out his initial singles, releasing his album, collaborating with Beyonce, all the way to his massive global success today. Thanks to her extensive experience at both major and independent labels, Heather has sharp insights to share about deal structures, ownership models, artist development, and how the industry has shifted (in the majors and the indies) over the last five years, all of which you’ll hear about in this episode.https://www.instagram.com/hvassar/00:00 The Hustle Behind Success02:49 Empire Records: A New Era in Music06:07 Shaboozey’s Journey to Stardom09:12 Navigating the Independent Label Landscape12:01 The Creative Process: From Songwriting to Release14:50 Breaking Through: The Success of “A Bar Song (Tipsy)”18:07 The Role of Radio in Today's Music Industry20:49 Building a Fanbase: The Digital Approach24:02 The Importance of Flexibility in Music Releases33:56 Navigating Legalities in Music Production39:08 Strategic Album Rollout and Market Timing45:51 Building a Global Music Infrastructure50:02 Maintaining Momentum After a Hit Release55:04 Balancing Art and Market Trends01:00:10 Educating Artists in the Digital AgeEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com41. An Iranian Refugee Became a Hit Producer and Now Finds Humanity with Global Collabs
01:04:40||Season 5, Ep. 41This week Ari sits down with AFSHEEN, an electronic artist, producer, songwriter, and DJ. Initially, AFSHEEN became well-known for producing music by Madonna, Janet Jackson, Selena Gomez, Chris Brown, Sia and other big-name artists. AFSHEEN was nominated for a Latin Grammy for his work on Natalia Jiménez's album Creo en Mi. He wrote "All We Have Is Love" with Sabrina Carpenter, wrote and produced "Sunny Days" with Armin van Buuren and Toby Gad, and has worked with other notable artists like Rebecca Ferguson and Lindsay Stirling. A song AFSHEEN wrote for Korean artist Taeyeon reached number one on the K-Pop Billboard charts for two consecutive weeks. AFSHEEN has had an incredibly successful career as a songwriter/producer, but he also recently released a new album, SMALL WORLD, under his namesake solo project. An Iranian refugee himself, AFSHEEN worked with artists from all over the world to bring this record to life. SMALL WORLD features prominent artists from Indian, Romania, Jamaica, Japan, Amsterdam, and beyond. AFSHEEN talks with Ari about transitioning from being the go-to producer/songwriter for superstars into being a self-released artist who releases his own music through DistroKid. AFSHEEN is also starting his own label, SOUNDISH. He shares insights about the process of building a label and his vision for the label’s future.https://www.instagram.com/afsheenmusic/00:00 Exploring Global Sounds: AFSHEEN’s Journey09:55 The Power of Collaboration: Building a Diverse Album20:07 Cultural Roots and Personal Stories: Music as a Reflection30:03 The Indie Artist Journey: From Producer to Self-Released32:00 Vision for the SOUNDISH label: A New Era in Music Production38:24 Transitioning from Behind the Scenes to Artist42:46 Expanding Global Reach through Collaboration51:22 Breaking into the Music Industry01:02:08 Defining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com40. Noga Erez on her Major Label Debut Album and Dealing With Hate
01:11:35||Season 5, Ep. 40This week Ari sits down with alt-pop singer, rapper & multi-hyphenate, Noga Erez. Her breakout album Off The Radar earned worldwide acclaim and her sophomore project KIDS brought even greater success. She recently released a new record THE VANDALIST, which has further cemented her place as a one-of-a-kind artist of the modern era. Noga Erez has garnered fans across the world, including superstars like Billie Eilish, Missy Elliott (who Noga collaborated with on her 2022 single “Nails”), Gal Gadot, and Finneas. She has sold out the Bowery Ballroom in NY, El Rey Theatre in LA, and Menora Arena in Tel Aviv on her headlining tours. Erez has performed at Bonnaroo, Primavera Sound, Austin City Limits, Lollapalooza, and has been featured on Jimmy Kimmel Live! as well as The Kelly Clarkson Show.In this episode, Ari and Noga talk about the creation process and the craft of songwriting. They also delve into themes from her latest record, including: how social media has affected society and the ways releasing music has changed in recent years. THE VANDALIST is Noga’s first record on a major label, so she shares details of what that experience has been like for her. Noga also talks about what it means to be an Israeli artist in a larger global context, and how that has impacted her life and work.https://www.nogaerez.com/00:00 The Meaning of Music in Life01:05 Introducing Noga Erez and Her New Album02:42 Navigating the Music Industry Chaos03:36 Being an Israeli Artist in Today's World04:36 The Creation Process of 'THE VANDLIST'06:31 Collaborating with Real Musicians11:35 Exploring Themes of PC Culture in Music16:55 The Impact of Social Media on Society24:41 The Sad Generation and Its Challenges30:00 The Role of Music in Finding Purpose34:43 Songwriting Process and Collaboration37:26 The Creative Process Behind Songwriting42:07 Navigating Major Label Dynamics46:40 The Impact of Social Media on Artists55:18 The Challenges of Being an Israeli Artist01:10:48 Defining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com39. How Partisan Records Markets Artists
01:19:54||Season 5, Ep. 39This week Ari sits down with Zena White, the chief operating officer at Partisan Records. Partisan is an internationally renowned independent record label headquartered in Brooklyn, NY. Zena has overseen global strategy for #1 charting, Grammy-nominated, Mercury Prize-winning album campaigns across Partisan’s diverse roster that includes IDLES, PJ Harvey, Cigarettes After Sex, Blondshell, the Fela Kuti estate and many more. Zena is also on the board of organizations like World Independent Network, A2IM, RIAA, and is a Recording Academy Member. Prior to Partisan, Zena was Managing Director at The Other Hand marketing services company in London, where she worked with artists such as Run The Jewels, Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings, Charles Bradley, and more.Zena tells Ari about ORCA (Organization for Recorded Culture and Arts) a nonprofit she’s involved with that uses research to demonstrate the economic, social, and cultural value of music. Then later, she takes us behind the scenes of Partisan Records, explaining where they spend their marketing money, how much they spend, and more. Ari and Zena discuss ‘old-school’ marketing tactics like radio, PR, print media, digital and TV, and Zena sheds light on how artists get on Late Night shows… along with how much that costs. Yep—it costs. Ari and Zena also dive deep into the world of ‘new media’ and discuss how Partisan spends its money in the new age of social media. Tune in to hear stories about how Cigarettes After Sex got off the ground and to get a glimpse into the inner workings of indie labels!https://partisanrecords.com/ https://www.orcaformusic.com/ 00:00 Investing in Artists: The New Music Business04:48 Inside Partisan Records: A Label's Journey10:00 Cigarettes After Sex: A Case Study in Success24:42 The Balance of Data and Creativity in A&R34:06 Marketing Strategies for Independent Artists40:50 The Evolving Landscape of Music Marketing46:28 Public Relations and Its Impact on Artist Development52:13 Navigating Television Appearances and Their Costs55:30 The Role of Local Press in Ticket Sales01:02:26 Influencer Marketing and New Media Strategies01:08:58 The Formation and Purpose of Orca01:19:05 Defining Success in the New Music BusinessEdited and mixed by Ari DavidsMusic by Brassroots DistrictProduced by the team at Ari’s TakeOrder the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com