The Ponsonby and Massie Podcast

OPERATION BRANCHFORM INVESTIGATION CONCLUDESSTURGEON & BEATTIE - No longer under investigation.MURRELL - Facing embezzlement charges and has appeared in court.What now?PLUSWelfare reform, intergenerational inequality and public spending pressures.

Bernard and Alex discuss the news that after being an MSP since 1999, Nicola Sturgeon has announced that she will not stand for re-election at the next Scottish Parliament election. Why has she done this?A look back at her careerWhat does it mean for the SNP?What was she like to work with?

PART 2 of the Ponsonby and Massie Podcast interview with the First Minister, John Swinney In his most in-depth and revealing interview since becoming Scotland's First Minister, John Swinney joins Bernard Ponsoby and Alex Massie:FEAR FOR SURVIVAL OF THE SNP* On Humza Yousaf resigning after the collapse of the Bute House agreement "If I go back to that period, which was really, really difficult, I feared for the stability of the government, I feared actually for the survival of the SNP, to be honest. I thought things were in such a bad place." COLLEAGUE CRIED WHEN HE SAID HE'D STAND* Recalling a colleague who shared his concerns "I said, well, I'm thinking about it [standing for First Minister] and they burst into tears". CREDITS BLAIR GOVERNMENT ON CHILD POVERTY * Swinney gives credit to Labour on Child Poverty "the achievements of the Blair Brown government, the first decade of this century really made an impact on eroding levels of child poverty in our society".DEFINES HIS RELIGIOUS FAITH* In a discussion about faith, the First Minister was asked "what does Jesus Christ mean to you personally?". He answered "the love of others, the love and service of others. That's what my Christian faith means to me..... I'd be perfectly happy to talk about that. I don't opt to go on to a podium to do so."MAKES NO APOLOGIES ON FAMILY JOINING OFFICIAL ENGAGEMENTS* On taking his family to official events "sometimes there's a bit of a hullabaloo about taking members of your family to particular occasions. I make no apology for it because if I didn't do that, I'd hardly see them."

Part 1 of 2. In his most in-depth and wide ranging interview since becoming First Minister of Scotland, John Swinney joins Bernard and Alex. "I was exhausted" when Nicola Sturgeon stood down in 2023. My year out revitalised me and allowed me to become First Minister.If I'm elected as First Minister in 2026, I'll stand again in 2031.2024 General Election was a "punishing defeat" delivered by people "disappointed in the SNP". The SNP government needs to rebuild trust by showing the electorate it is delivering. Independence will be in the manifesto and a referendum if there's the appetite. I have sympathy on Council Tax but won't re-value properties.

Bernard and Alex chew over:SECUIRTY CRISIS - NATO and Europe in a Security crisis as "strongmen" Trump and Putin carve up the geopolitical map. GENDER - Last week's debate around gender issues and disagreements on the ability to debate them in the Scottish Parliament puts further pressure on First Minister, John Swinney, and the role of the Presiding Officer. SCOTTISH LABOUR - With the Scottish Labour conference underway in Glasgow, what can Anas Sarwar do to stop the party tanking in the polls?

Times journalist and co-author of a new book on the current Labour Government, Patrick Maguire, joins Bernard and Alex to discuss Keir Starmer and particularly the relationship with his Chief of Staff, Morgan McSweeney. PATRICK MAGUIREON McSWEENEY"People say, ‘Why is this the Morgan McSweeney story with Keir Starmer as a supporting actor?’—because that’s what happened.""Morgan McSweeney was doing this long before Keir Starmer began to think seriously about Labour politics.""His polling showed, as early as 2017, that there was one person in the sweet spot to lead Labour: Keir Starmer.""Morgan McSweeney recruits Keir Starmer. He picks Keir Starmer, not the other way around.""McSweeney is seen by many in Labour as more important than Starmer himself—some say their ultimate loyalty is to him."ON STARMER"Keir didn’t start anywhere apart from vaguely progressive.""He genuinely believes that if he can run things better, things will run more smoothly.""His political formation, unusually for a leader of the Labour Party, has taken place in real time as Labour leader.""Starmer is constantly defined by events and is something of a political opportunist.""He is not thinking, ‘the political solution to this is X or Y’—he just takes advice and adapts.""There is no such thing as Starmerism because Starmer abhors ideology—when the left accuse him of it, he is genuinely horrified.""It’s remarkable that as late as 2022, Starmer needed outside advisors to ask, 'What is it you actually believe?'""You can bet against Keir Starmer, but often he will, despite himself, surprise you."