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Jason Crawford on how technology expands human choice and control
01:01:07|Our fast-paced world isn’t spinning out of our control; we’re actually becoming more capable of steering it than ever before. Throughout history, technological progress has expanded human agency, that is our ability to choose our destiny rather than being subject to the whims of nature.Jason Crawford, founder of the Roots of Progress Institute, joins the podcast to discuss The Techno-Humanist Manifesto, his book exploring his philosophy of progress centered around human life and wellbeing. In our conversation, we dive into the core arguments of the manifesto:How we are more in control of our lives than ever beforeWhy we should reframe the goal of “stopping climate change” into “controlling climate change” and work toward installing a “thermostat for the Earth”The value of nature and its interaction with humanityAllowing ourselves to celebrate human achievement and industrial civilizationThe concept of “solutionism”, as a kind of optimism that acknowledges risks while keeping a proactive attitude towards solving problemsWhy two common fears around the slowing of progress – that we could run out of natural resources or new ideas – are actually unfoundedThe possibility that AI represents a transformation as significant as the Industrial Revolution or the invention of agricultureHow to rebuild a culture of progress in the 21st century, from reforming scientific institutions to creating new, non-dystopian science fictionChapters:[00:00] Cold open[01:30] Intro: Jason Crawford and the Techno-Humanist Manifesto[04:10] Defining progress as the expansion of human agency[06:16] How to use our newfound agency to live a meaningful life[10:07] Climate control: installing a “thermostat” for the Earth[13:26] Anthropocentrism and the value of nature[19:41] Ode to man: celebrating human achievement[20:53] Solutionism: believing in our problem-solving abilities to tackle risks[26:26] Why pessimism sounds smart but misses the solution space[31:29] The myth of finite natural resources and the power of knowledge[34:27] Why we are getting better at finding ideas faster than they get harder to find[39:03] The Intelligence Age: a new mode of production[41:19] Amplifying human agency in an AI-driven world[43:09] Developing a healthy relationship with AI and attention[46:28] The culture of progress and why we soured on the future[50:10] Building the infrastructure for a global progress movement[53:54] A 20-year vision for progress studies in the mainstream[57:33] High-leverage regulations for progress: from nuclear to supersonic flight[58:57] Jason Crawford’s existential hope vision
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Elle Griffin on researching the ideal society, from utopian books to real-world examples
01:09:51|While dystopian fiction dominates our screens and bookshelves, Elle Griffin is busy researching how things might actually go right. She wanted to write a utopian novel and realized she needed a better understanding of what an ideal society could look like. In our conversation, we discuss how her favorite utopian literature influenced her views on a well-designed society. But we also explore practical ideas on how we could improve our systems:Tax autonomy: Why giving states and cities the power to collect their own taxes would allow them to fund the specific services their citizens actually want.A la carte federations: A model where cities and states choose to join specific agreements, like a "fishing EU" or a "healthcare EU," instead of being forced into one large, centralized government that manages every aspect of life.The Mondragon model: What we can learn from a massive network of worker-owned cooperatives in Spain that provides its own unemployment insurance and university.Who should control AI: Why giving voting authority to the employees who write the code (rather than investors or nonprofit boards) might be the best way to prevent unethical shortcuts.Singapore’s land model: How the government acts as a landlord to fund public services, allowing for lower income taxes while still providing universal social support.Fixing the Internet: How to use personal data and AI to make us wiser, rather than letting algorithms push us toward fast fashion and political radicalization.Chapters:Cold open (00:00:00)Introducing Elle Griffin (00:01:27)How writing a novel turned into a research project (00:02:27)Elle’s current work: From print pamphlets to "We Should Own the Economy" (00:04:21)The setup of Elle’s upcoming utopian novel (00:05:06)From gothic literature to utopian literature (00:06:30)Three classic utopian novels and their recurring lessons (00:15:42)Building a "future Asia" through mythology and technology (00:22:02)What if US States had the same autonomy as EU countries? (00:23:49)"A la carte" federalism: moving toward a modular government (00:28:11)The Mondragon model: a blueprint for worker-owned economies (00:32:54)Why the smallest government is the best government (00:36:18)The global monoculture and the rise of micro-cultures (00:44:29)Who should control AI? The case for employee-led governance (00:53:02)Fixing the Internet and using AI to make us wise, not just efficient (01:01:06)Why Victor Hugo’s "Les Misérables" is the ultimate masterpiece (01:06:14)An existential hope vision for the future (01:08:09)Andrew Critch on what AGI might look like in practice
01:03:00|When people think about AGI, most of them ask “When is it going to arrive?” or “What kind of AGI will we get?”. Andrew Critch, AI safety researcher and mathematician, argues that the most important question is actually “What will we do with it?”In our conversation, we explore the importance of our choices in the quest to make AGI a force for good. Andrew explains what AGI might look like in practical terms, and the consequences of it being trained on our culture. He also claims that finding the “best” values AI should have is a philosophical trap, and that we should instead focus on finding a basic agreement about “good” vs. “bad” behaviors.The episode also covers concrete takes on the transition to AGI, including: Why an advanced intelligence would likely find killing humans “mean.”How automated computer security checks could be one of the best uses of powerful AI.Why the best preparation for AGI is simply to build helpful products today.Anna Gát on creating communities that connect, even when people disagree
44:44|Anna Gát, founder of the Interintellect community, joins us to explore the essential role of hopeful action and diverse communities in shaping the future. Anna shares why she started Interintellect as a space for intellectual inquiry free from political polarization and traditional gatekeeping, driven by the hope that constructive social collaboration is possible. She details the specific rules of gathering and hosting that can make online and offline groups successful, fostering deep, non-toxic, and life-changing conversations across polarizing topics.We also dive into the genesis of Anna's own podcast, The Hope Axis, and her frustration with the prevalent "complaint culture" and regressive narratives in wealthy societies. The conversation also touches on these questions:Why should communities be given a clear "job" to increase their longevity?How can we achieve diversity of thought in tight-knit groups?Why is constantly networking (with a finite-game approach) detrimental to human well-being?What does it mean to be a "realistic optimist"?How can we architecturally ensure that future AI serves groups and supports humans as social creatures, rather than further enabling solitary, hyper-addictive entertainment?Isabelle Boemeke on what everyone gets wrong about nuclear energy
54:56|Nuclear energy has a reputation problem. Despite being one of the safest and most reliable clean-energy technologies ever developed, public perception is dominated by a handful of accidents, Cold War imagery, and decades of political resistance. Isabelle Boemeke, model-turned-science-communicator and author of Rad Future, argues that this disconnect is not only irrational, but actively dangerous for humanity’s prospects.In this episode, Isabelle explains how nuclear became one of the most misunderstood technologies of the last century, why fears about waste, safety, and proliferation are often overstated, and what the data actually shows about nuclear relative to fossil fuels, hydropower, and renewables. She also talks about her unusual path to becoming the first “nuclear influencer,” why she thinks communication and aesthetics matter just as much as engineering, and why abundant, cheap energy is central to improving global living standards.Beyond nuclear itself, the conversation touches on broader questions:• Why are young people increasingly pessimistic about the future?• What explains the rise of degrowth thinking in wealthy countries?• How does meaning shift in a world where technology automates more of life?• And what would it take for the U.S. and Europe to build again at the pace of China?This special episode was recorded at the 2025 Progress Conference. Enormous thanks to Roots of Progress for organizing the event, and to Lighthaven for providing the podcast studio.Sam Bowman on what’s holding back progress (and how to fix it)
01:24:19|What if the biggest driver of economic growth isn’t new technology, but simply fixing what’s broke, housing, transport, and energy?Sam Bowman, editor of Works in Progress, joins us to explore how smarter cities, faster transit, and abundant energy could unlock human potential on an unprecedented scale. We discuss why restrictive zoning laws keep millions from opportunity, how beauty and design shape public attitudes toward progress, and why rediscovering growth could restore optimism in the West.Sam also shares what he’s learned from success stories around the world, from Houston’s neighborhood-led zoning reforms to Madrid’s low-cost metro expansion, and why he believes rebuilding belief in progress is just as important as building the future itself.This special episode was recorded live at the 2025 Progress Conference, hosted by our friends at Roots of Progress. We’re grateful to them for bringing together so many thinkers reimagining how humanity can keep moving forward—and for making conversations like this one possible!Jacques Carolan on the future of brain health
48:24|What if we could treat depression, anxiety, or chronic pain by tuning the brain, just as precisely as a pacemaker regulates the heart?Jacques Carolan, Program Director at the UK’s ARIA (Advanced Research and Invention Agency), joins us to talk about the next wave of precision neurotechnology; new tools that let us see and influence brain activity with far greater accuracy. We explore how ultrasound might gently stimulate mood circuits without surgery, how gene therapies could switch off seizures before they start, and how “living electrodes” could one day repair damaged brain tissue.Jacques also explains ARIA’s bold approach to funding high-risk science, what he’s learned from patient engagement, and why he believes the next decade will transform how we understand and care for the brain.