The Business of Fashion Podcast

Growing up in Hamburg with a photographer father and a stepmother who ran a vintage boutique, Robert Geller was immersed in the world of fashion, art and creativity from a young age. His journey from Marc Jacobs intern to co-founder of cult New York fashion label Cloak to creative director at Rag & Bone is the result of his personal philosophy of saying yes to new opportunities. “The key thing is saying yes. Just do it and try it. It's always better to do something than not to do it,” shared Geller. “Even if it doesn't go right, you learn a ton from it. You're always better off going out and trying something."This week on the BoF Podcast, founder and CEO Imran Amed sits down with Geller to explore his journey, learn about the ups and downs of building an independent fashion label, and why he’s taken on his new role as creative director at Rag & Bone.Key Insights: Growing up, Geller was deeply influenced by his creative surroundings and his stepmother played a pivotal role in shaping his fashion sensibilities. “She owned a second-hand store in Hamburg, but she only sold Japanese fashion labels,” he recalls, pointing to brands like Comme des Garçons and Yohji Yamamoto. Trips with her to Paris, where she would take him to “beautiful boutiques,” ignited his passion for fashion. “At a very young age, I really enjoyed it. I sort of found the magic of fashion in these places and in these clothes.”Geller’s first major venture in fashion, Cloak, became a cult label in New York in the early 2000s. Geller left Cloak after the A/W 2004 collection, with the brand finally closing down in 2007. As Geller candidly explains, “We were not really focusing on making money. We didn’t know how to do it, but we knew how to make great clothes and how to put on fun shows.” The purity of vision behind Cloak was undeniable, but it ultimately lacked the business foundation needed for sustainability.  While Geller has always embraced creativity, he also understands the importance of balancing it with the practicalities of running a business. “I respect the need for the sales and need for the business, that’s the fuel,” he says. “One cannot exist without the other. You can’t have a collection without getting the business right and having sales,” Geller adds.After years of running his own label, Geller made the leap to become creative director at Rag & Bone in 2023. Reflecting on his approach, he says, “It just needed another layer of excitement... I felt like it was lacking conversations, the exciting pieces, the layer on top that really exemplified the peak of the brand.” Geller’s vision involves integrating the brand's core strengths, like denim, with modern elements to create a cohesive, elevated collection. “It’s not a revolution... we're just trying to layer something on top that’s exciting.”Additional Resources:Groundhog Day at Rag & Bone | BoFMarcus Wainwright on Rag & Bone and Going It Alone | BoF A Different Kind of Dream at Rag & Bone | BoF

A growing number of direct-to-consumer brands are disrupting the luxury market by offering high-quality alternatives at more affordable prices. As traditional luxury brands focus on the ultra-wealthy and fast fashion dominates the budget market, these “dupe” brands cater to middle-class consumers who feel priced out of luxury but still want value for their money. Through transparent pricing and savvy use of social media, they are reshaping how consumers think about value and quality.“The term dupe stems from duplication, but it also does speak to consumer sentiment around pricing today - they do feel duped,” says e-commerce correspondent Malique Morris. “Luxury brands have exponentially raised their prices for hip products in a way that is locking out middle class shoppers who typically could splurge on a few nice bags or a few nice sweaters a year.” Key insights:As luxury brands continue to hike prices for their most popular products, middle-class consumers are feeling increasingly excluded from the luxury market. This sentiment is fueling the rise of brands like Quince and Italic. “Luxury brands have exponentially raised their prices for hip products in a way that is locking out middle class shoppers who typically could splurge on a few nice bags or a few nice sweaters a year,” says Morris. “The check is going to come due for luxury brands to explain why their prices are so high.”Dupe brands take advantage of this dynamic by being open about their costs, breaking down exactly how much it takes to produce their items and what they’re selling them for. “Dupe brands are almost annoyingly transparent about pricing in terms of breaking down,” Morris explains. “That’s refreshing for middle-class shoppers who are seeing the prices of things like milk and eggs rise inexplicably. Outside of this vague bogeyman of inflation, their dreams of owning a Chanel bag is moving further away with no real explanation on that front either.” Platforms like TikTok and Instagram have been instrumental in the rise of dupe brands, where influencers showcase cheaper alternatives to high-end products. However, the sustainability of this trend is uncertain. “If consumers stop caring about dupes and engagement goes down, then social media leverage on this front will die out for these brands, but right now, it really is a boon for them,” says Morris.While price is the main draw for dupe brands now, they will need to evolve beyond being simply the cheaper alternative. “What is our differentiator beyond offering good prices now? What is our storytelling? What are our products that are unique to us? If dupe brands can answer those questions, they’ll stop being seen as just cheaper versions,” says Morris. Additional Resources:What Luxury ‘Dupe’ Brands Get Right About Shoppers | BoF Is Dupe Culture Out of Control? | BoF

Michelle Yeoh has captivated audiences for decades, from her iconic role in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon to her Oscar-winning performance in Everything Everywhere All at Once. Over her storied career, she has consistently pushed boundaries, proving her versatility both on and off the screen, breaking paths as an Asian woman on the global stage. Now, at the age of 62 Michelle has scored coveted global ambassador roles at not one, but two of fashion’s top luxury brands — Balenciaga and Bottega Veneta."Fashion has changed, and it’s not just about dressing younger people," Yeoh says. "You have to find representation across different generations, and I think what I represent is being proud that you are different, that you are older — and there’s nothing wrong with that. Just before the Oscars a silly television commentator said, ‘You’re past your prime because you’re 50-something.’ How dare you? How dare anybody tell you what you are capable of?”This week on The BoF Podcast, BoF founder and editor-in-chief Imran Amed sits down with Yeoh to discuss her winding journey to the big screen and why fashion is finally embracing older women.Key Insights:  Yeoh’s path to stardom began with her early passion for dance, which she began as a child in Malaysia before travelling to England to study further. When she had to set her dance dreams aside due to injury, the shift opened the door to acting in action and martial arts films alongside actors like Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung and Jet Li. “I watched [Hung] do the choreography and the fighting, and I thought, ‘this is exactly like dance,’” she says. “This is choreography. We all know what we are doing, it's about how you transfer the energy and the speed of the rhythm.”On success and failures, Yeoh embraces the lows moment as opportunities to transform. “Failures are what make you learn. If you're only successful, how do you know that's the way? ... It's the journey, not just the destination," says Yeoh. "And in that journey, that's where you learn. That's where you grow, where you meet, where you engage, and that's where you have a full life.”Yeoh places a deep emphasis on trust and collaboration when choosing her creative partners. “Once I choose to work with you, then I have to trust you. I have to believe that you have the right vision,” she shares. “If I don’t trust you, then I don’t think I’ll be able to give you my best. I have to believe in your vision, that you know what you’re doing, and that we’re in this together."Additional Resources:How Michelle Yeoh Conquered Fashion | BoF 

The beauty industry thrives on virality, but in the age of social media, that can be a double-edged sword. One viral TikTok video can catapult a brand to success — or bring it to its knees. From Youthforia’s foundation shade controversy to Huda Beauty’s mislabeling error, brands are discovering that managing customer expectations and addressing backlash swiftly is critical to their survival.“It happens pretty fast when it does happen. … Sometimes it’s an unknown creator who can make [a product] go viral for all the wrong reasons,” says beauty correspondent Daniela Morosini. “You have to be willing to listen when they tell you that you got it wrong.”Key InsightsBuilding a strong brand community involves more than just creating a product; it means engaging with your customers and allowing them to have a meaningful role in your brand’s development. “If you're going to create a community to help your brand grow, you need to understand that those customers want a seat at the table,” says Morosini. Listening to customer feedback, especially when things go wrong, is crucial. Being proactive in addressing customer complaints is crucial. As demonstrated by Huda Beauty’s mislabeling issue, taking responsibility early on and offering solutions can stop a backlash from spiralling. Morosini notes, “She took full accountability and offered to make everybody whole if they’d bought the wrong shade.”Hair care products, especially those tied to hair loss, tend to evoke emotional responses and intense scrutiny. The stakes are high as hair loss is a sensitive, deeply personal issue. As Morosini points out, “There are so many factors that can cause hair loss… people don't want to roll the dice if there's even a 1% chance a product could be the cause.”Complexion product mishaps can be particularly damaging for beauty brands, as they quickly highlight inclusivity gaps. “It’s just so obvious when a brand has missed the mark with complexion,” says Morosini. “Oftentimes the scandals that seem to cause a lot of blowback, they come back to that exclusionary point,” she adds. “Nobody likes to feel left out.”Additional Resources:What to Do When a Beauty Product Launch Goes Wrong | BoFWhy Beauty Brands Keep Getting Accused of Causing Hair Loss — and What They Can Do About It -Editor's Note: This podcast was amended on Oct. 17 2024 to clarify YSL as the maker of the blush product.

Zac Posen burst onto the fashion scene in the early 2000s, gaining acclaim for his glamorous designs and dressing Hollywood's elite. After nearly two decades, Posen closed his label in 2019, finding himself at a crossroads that eventually led to a meeting with Richard Dickson, the new CEO of Gap Inc., and the chance to join the company as creative director. Now, he's on a mission to bring cultural relevance and excitement back to brands like Gap, Old Navy, Banana Republic, and Athleta.“Within five minutes [of meeting Dickson], I knew that there was something very special. It was a cosmic moment where there was like a magic connection, where I saw that I had met my dreamer,” Posen says.This week on The BoF Podcast, BoF founder and editor-in-chief Imran Amed sits down with Posen to explore his journey of redefining success, his transformative role at Gap Inc., and his vision for the future of fashion.Key InsightsClosing his eponymous fashion label forced Posen to reevaluate how he defined success, shifting his focus from external achievements to personal fulfilment and creative expression. "Success for me is about being able to inspire a larger public, to be able to work within my own creativity and to use that and what I represent to help a larger public be in touch with their own creativity” he says. “To me, creativity is as essential as sleeping and eating and everything else wonderful in life."  Posen found new creative inspiration through returning to his roots of draping and garment creation. “I was back on a mannequin … and just expressing and sculpting in space, it felt exciting,” he shares, describing the joy of reconnecting with hands-on creative work in his father’s studio, the same place where his journey in fashion began. “It felt like a full circle moment.”As creative director of Gap. Inc, Posen is working to modernise brands like Old Navy and Gap by emphasising storytelling, redefining brand identities, and making subtle evolutions that reignite consumer interest. "Building a brand is about being part of the cultural conversation and moving at the speed of culture and actually being able to help move culture forward,” he says.Posen advises young designers to be patient, embrace the balance between art and commerce, and appreciate the opportunity to inspire others. “Creativity is a lifelong pursuit … You can't foresee the path and where it will take you,” he says. “If you are able to work in this industry, to be able to work in a creative field and … understand that fabulous, amazing, magical pendulum that has to be in balance, you are so lucky and so fortunate.”Additional Resources:The Gap Comeback That’s Actually Working | BoF Do Mass Brands Need Creative Directors? | BoFCreating Cultural Moments in the Age of Algorithms | BoF

The influencer landscape has shifted dramatically over the last decade. While the image of influencers posting flawless selfies on exotic, brand-sponsored trips still resonates, the reality has become far more complex. Influencers now host live shoppable streams, publish newsletters on Substack and engage in intimate group chats. Their goal is not just to build a following and wait for brands to come calling, but to establish multiple sources of income through affiliate links, brand deals, and subscription models.“Influencers and creators have realised that they need to diversify and be on multiple platforms. They need to be connecting with their followers in multiple ways and have a deeper relationship with their followers,” says Diana Pearl, senior news and features editor.  “Even five years ago, there were people who didn't really take this industry very seriously and didn't realise the difference they could make for their brand. Now it is impossible to ignore.”Key Insights:In the evolving digital landscape, influencers and creators are no longer relying on a single platform for success. Diversifying their presence across platforms, from Instagram to Substack, is key. Pearl emphasises, “It’s really all just about diversification... not relying so much on one source, not having to rely so much on Instagram, the algorithm, affiliate links and brand deals.”While macro-influencers may reach a broader audience, smaller influencers often have more engaged, loyal followers. “Once you get so big and you've got millions and millions of followers, you can't have that type of relationship with 5 million people the way you can with 100,000,” says Pearl.The rivalry between influencer marketing platforms LTK and ShopMy highlights a shift in the landscape, with ShopMy offering influencers more control and transparency. Pearl explains that while LTK encourages creators to centralise their content on its app, ShopMy allows influencers to share across platforms. “We know our audience, we know what content resonates with them. But if you hand us this really detailed brief and expect us to act like a traditional ad agency... it’s just not going to come off as authentic,” Pearl explains.The industry is becoming more nuanced, with clear distinctions emerging between influencers and creators. While creators focus on producing unique, engaging content, influencers drive sales and hold sway over purchasing decisions. Influence remains the key asset in the industry, one that can be translated across platforms like Instagram, TikTok, or Substack. "At the end of the day, the most valuable commodity in this business is influence," Pearl explains.By understanding their goals and selecting the right partner to meet them, brands can optimise the impact of their influencer campaigns and better connect with their target audiences. “Brands just need to be smart about what are your goals, what’s the right type of person to achieve these goals or right type of partner and who should we go with from there?” says Pearl. Additional Resources:The Widening Gap Between Influencers and CreatorsThe Fight for Influencer Marketing Dollars Heats UpWhat’s Driving the Influencer Subscription Boom

Amid economic uncertainty, a global luxury industry slowdown, and conflicts erupting around the world, designers at the Spring/Summer 2025 shows balanced restraint and expression, resulting in collections that sought deeper emotional and intellectual impact. Megabrands scaled back fashion week festivities as they battened down the hatches with budget cuts and streamlined shows.“I think there's a general caution and a realignment. I think the state of the world is more conducive to reflection than extravagance,” says Tim Blanks, The Business of Fashion’s editor at large.It was the designers who took creative risks that stood out. At Marni, Francesco Risso created a cinematic spectacle, transforming cotton into expressive designs, emphasising simple beauty amid turmoil. Alessandro Michele made his anticipated debut at Valentino, honoring the legacy of Valentino Garavani while infusing his flair. At Loewe, Jonathan Anderson played with scale, encouraging audiences to rethink aesthetics.In this episode of The BoF Podcast, Imran Amed sits down with Tim Blanks to unpack the highlights of Fashion Month and discuss how the current global climate is influencing designers and brands.Key InsightsIn his eagerly awaited debut for Valentino, Alessandro Michele seamlessly integrated his unique creative approach with the storied heritage of the house. Blanks describes the collaboration as “a natural consummation ... like lovers meeting after decades of being apart and that kind of explosion of joy.”Sabato De Sarno's recent work at Gucci reflects the complexities of redefining a brand with a rich and influential legacy. While attempting to honor Gucci's heritage, his collections have faced criticism for lacking the distinctive and bold creative direction of his predecessors. Blanks remarks, “the problem is creating a new story for Gucci when the old stories are just so overpowering.”At Loewe, Jonathan Anderson pushed boundaries by experimenting with scale and perspective. His designs included oversized hoop skirts that seemed to hover. "He likes to challenge people's points of view," Blanks observes, adding that Anderson provokes thought "by showing them something that makes them wonder, how would I wear that? How would I sit in that?"Emerging designer Duran Lantink made a strong impression with his collection featuring extreme shapes refined into wearable forms. “Those clothes are a physical realization of independent thinking. What we need is more independent thought... fashion needs more of that," Blanks says.Amed echoes the importance of nurturing new talent, saying, “I think the future of the fashion industry is in good hands with some of these younger designers that haven't necessarily had a big role in a house yet but certainly deserve an opportunity to show what they can do. I think that's part of what we need in the industry—to move away from this lack of risk-taking. Safety and being safe, that's just boring.”Additional resourcesIn Paris, the Boys Can’t Help It!Beauty Is Still DefianceWhat Does Pressure Look Like in Milan?

For decades, department stores were symbols of American retail success, but their shine has long since faded. Overexpansion that began in the 1990s, the growth of e-commerce and the decline of many malls has left a saturated market, with more stores than there is demand. Major department stores have been struggling for decades to adapt to changes in the way their customers shop, with little to show for it. "These challenges existed ten years ago, but the problem we have today is that it’s getting later and later, and more and more desperate for these department stores. Time is running out, and they still haven’t figured out the solution,” says retail editor Cat Chen.In this episode of The Debrief, BoF senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young speaks with Chen about why department stores are struggling to stay relevant, how activist investors are complicating the picture, and whether following the approach of European department stores like Selfridges can save this iconic segment of the retail industry.  Key Insights:Activist investors have been targeting department stores like Macy’s and Kohl’s, but they are more interested in these companies’ real estate portfolios than retail. Chen highlights the parallels with Sears, where the investor Eddie Lampert spun out Sears’ real estate into a separate entity, ultimately leading to its bankruptcy. “The sentiment in the industry is that if these companies were bought out by activist investors it would not be a good sign for the health of these department stores. There wouldn’t be a long-term strategy for maintaining their health,” she says.Nordstrom's strategy for revival includes focusing on experiential retail, enhancing customer service, and possibly going private under the Nordstrom family’s ownership. These moves would allow them to invest in the long-term health of the company without the pressure of quarterly earnings. “The Nordstrom family is really set on making some radical, transformative changes to Nordstrom that they just can't make as a public entity,” Chen explains.European department stores are a potential model for American department stores to replicate. “Look at Selfridges or look at Le Bon Marché. People love spending time in those stores — tourists but also locals,” Chen says. Explaining how European stores are treated like flagships, with significant investments in customer experience and meticulous attention to detail, she adds, “these companies invest in the layout of the store — fixtures, carpeting, lighting — all of these details matter, and European department stores have done a great job making it happen.” Additional Resources:Why Nordstrom’s Founding Family Wants to Take the Retailer Private | BoFInnovation Won’t Save Department Stores. The Right Products Will. | BoFCan Saks, Neiman Marcus and Amazon Save the American Department Store? | BoF