PR in the Real World

Sarah Ogden, Chief Client Officer Europe at Zeno Group, joins Tony Garner to share 25 years of agency leadership insights for this episode of PR in the Real World. They cover what makes teams thrive, why AI threatens junior PR roles, the behavioural science underpinning great communications, and Zeno's Clarity 2030 research — revealing that 72% of comms leaders expect greater influence by 2030, but only 29% feel ready. Essential listening for PR professionals navigating a rapidly changing industry.Links and ReferencesZeno Clarity 2030 - https://clarity2030.zenogroup.com/

What happens when you stop treating artificial intelligence like a simple tool and start treating it as a "cognitive accelerator"? In this episode of PR in the Real World, host Tony Garner sits down with tech prophet, author and CEO Antony Mayfield to unpack the reality of working alongside frontier AI models.Antony Mayfield, co-founder and CEO of digital change consultancy Brilliant Noise, has spent decades successfully calling technological shifts, from the initial corporate scepticism of social media to the sudden emergence of large language models (LLMs). Antony breaks down how he ripped up his agency's traditional operating structures to rebuild the business as a "living lab," providing clear operational strategies for any communications team looking to survive the next wave of automation.Moving past the basic "software-as-a-tool" approach, this episode explores complex, system-level change management. Antony outlines real-world workflows that went from weeks of production down to hours, including how his creative director prompted Claude to generate fully interactive website case studies and how his team entirely reconfigured a senior executive pitch deck for BMW over breakfast. Balancing deep curiosity with a disciplined, healthy scepticism, this conversation addresses the reality of rapid model updates, cybersecurity anxieties and the shift from conversational chatbots to autonomous, collaborative agent teams.From an operational and strategic perspective, this episode covers:The "Cognitive Accelerator" Metaphor: Understanding generative AI as an active thinking partner that speeds up strategic framing - while learning to spot the safety hazards of moving too fast.Building a Living Lab Team Culture: Why establishing cross-functional weekly "Show and Tells" accelerates organisational literacy far better than static corporate training modules.The Transition to Agentic Systems: Navigating the pivot from transactional prompt-and-response chatbots to sophisticated multi-agent workflows that automatically coordinate enterprise software.The "Services as Software" Shift: How the collapse of software production costs is fundamentally reshaping the billable-hours agency business model.Fostering AI Readiness & Psychological Safety: Why effective tech transformation requires leaders who admit they don't have all the answers, creating environments where teams can safely experiment, critique and fail.Why the Liberal Arts Still Win: How strong foundational skills in language, logic, philosophy and precise textual framing give communication professionals a distinct edge in an AI-driven market.Antony highlights the intense pace of international production through the lens of "involution," warns against the corporate trap of over-investing in rigid enterprise licenses without training for digital fluency and shares his personal media diet, including the Hard Fork podcast and Lenny Rachitsky's product management series.This episode is essential listening for:PR Agency Founders & Innovators: Transitioning away from legacy billing models toward productized services and agile operations.Chief Digital Officers & Change Consultants: Tasked with structuring secure, scalable AI integration plans for global brands.Creative Directors & Strategists: Looking to safely scale production and conceptual mood-boarding without losing artistic control or emotional resonance.Corporate Comms Leaders: Trying to balance near-future technological forecasting with steady, human-centric team leadership.Links and ReferencesBrilliant Noise - https://brilliantnoise.comBN Edition - https://bnedition.substack.com/Antonym - https://antonym.substack.com/Prepared Minds - https://brilliantnoise.com/prepared-minds/Lenny's Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/2dR1MUZEHCOnz1LVfNac0j?si=e0c080d940684c30Hard Fork - https://open.spotify.com/show/44fllCS2FTFr2x2kjP9xeT?si=3c36f7db396e4b5e

How do you build a 36-strong, multi-award-winning agency from scratch with no client contacts and no corporate safety net? In this episode of PR in the Real World, Vicki Spencer-Francis, founder of Cowshed, reveals the triumphs, setbacks and strategic overhauls that led them to become the CIPR UK Agency of the Year.Vicki Spencer-Francis started her career in the bright lights of London television, working at Channel 4, launching CBeebies at the BBC and running major campaigns for Comic Relief. After a personal crossroads led her back to Wales, she transitioned into public sector communications before taking a leap of faith to launch Cowshed. Vicki opens up about how deeply personal setbacks fueled her desire to build an integrated creative agency focused strictly on causes that deliver genuine social value.The conversation goes behind the glitz of award ceremonies to tackle the realities of business disruption. Vicki shares how a massive 45% revenue drop at the start of the pandemic forced a total operational overhaul, transforming Cowshed from a loose collective into a highly structured, process-driven organisation. From pioneering the "COWSHED" campaign methodology to executing high-impact behavioural change initiatives for national adoption and railway networks, Vicki delivers a masterclass in resilient leadership, human insight and scaling an agency without losing your soul.From an operational and agency growth perspective, this episode covers:The Blueprint for Purpose-Led PR: Aligning your agency's client roster strictly with causes you care about to supercharge creative execution and team retention.The Post-COVID Operational Pivot: Overcoming structural blind spots by transforming baseline agency policies, onboarding and internal workflows after a crisis.The "COWSHED" Campaign Methodology: A proprietary strategic framework that roots every creative idea into direct audience engagement and human truths.Boots-on-the-Ground Community Engagement: Why physically paying a dedicated team to conduct town halls and face-to-face focus groups beats relying solely on digital data.Nurturing the Next Generation: Resisting the corporate temptation to replace entry-level roles with AI and focusing instead on mentoring young industry talent.The "Hollywood Model" Succession Strategy: Empowering a multi-disciplinary senior leadership team to run daily operations while the founder transitions to brand ambassadorship.Vicki shares the origin of her agency's distinctive name (derived from converting a literal cowshed on her family farm), the mechanics behind a highly successful 38% uplift in applications for the National Adoption Service's "Choose Family" campaign and how turning 50 permanently cured her of imposter syndrome.This episode is essential listening for:PR Agency Founders & Leaders: Looking to scale their headcount, refine internal processes, and transition to fully integrated creative services.Freelancers & Independent Consultants: Seeking inspiration on how to leverage past network connections into sustainable anchor contracts.Public Sector & Charity Marketers: Interested in how behavioural change insights are successfully deployed to influence target communities.Account Directors & Managers: Tasked with building authentic, empathetic campaign briefs for highly sensitive social issues.

In this episode of PR in the Real World, Stephen Waddington and Ben Verinder discuss their new book, AI for Public Relations, and why the profession needs more critical thinking around AI. From “system zero” thinking and vanishing career ladders to measurement, data and responsible adoption, they explore how PR can shape AI’s impact rather than simply react to it.Links and ReferencesAI for Public Relations — https://www.koganpage.com/marketing-communications/ai-for-public-relations-9781398625037 Socially Mobile — https://www.sociallymobile.org.uk/ AI for PR Conference, Communicate magazine — https://www.communicatemagazine.com/conference/ai-for-pr-conference-2026/ AI for Public Relations course — https://wadds.co.uk/ai-for-public-relations-one-day-online-course Similar EpisodesWhat AI Means for PR Measurement with Liam Kelly https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-media-intelligence/Why GEO is ‘PR's Biggest Opportunity in 20 Years’ with Darryl Sparey https://www.vivapr.co.uk/darryl-sparey-on-why-geo-is-prs-biggest-opportunity-in-20-years/Strategy, AI and Regional Powerhouses with Sarah Waddington https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-strategy-ai-regional-powerhouses/The Truth About AI with Ben Verinder https://www.vivapr.co.uk/the-truth-about-ai-with-ben-verinder/

How do you successfully transition from heading a major regional newsroom to orchestrating the internal communication strategy for a global 23,000-strong public broadcasting workforce? In this episode of PR in the Real World, we talk with Maria McGeoghan, former Editor of the Manchester Evening News and internal communications leader at the BBC.Maria McGeoghan’s distinguished career spans the frontline evolution of the UK media landscape. Breaking new ground as the first female editor of the Manchester Evening News in its 145-year history, Maria provides a candid reflection on managing newsroom dynamics during major corporate buyouts and rapid digital shifts. We trace her subsequent transition into high-level internal relations and employee engagement strategy within the BBC North ecosystem at MediaCityUK.The conversation explores the critical operational value of internal communications during cross-border crises like the pandemic response, where thousands of staff transitioned to remote production workflows within days. Maria breaks down the importance of avoiding communication vacuums, managing the "no surprises" doctrine across large divisions, and humanising major corporate structural shifts. From launching sustainability campaigns with rooftop beehives to building leadership alignment strategies for frontline managers, this episode delivers a blueprint for purpose-driven organisational engagement.From a PR perspective, this episode covers:The Evolution of Newsroom Culture: Navigating legacy media environments and establishing flexible, inclusive modern workplace standards.Managing Corporate Transitions: Maintaining editorial independence and staff morale during major structural relocations and digital-first transformations.The Strategic Value of Internal Comms: Lessons from the pandemic on utilising localised frameworks, clear toolkits, and proactive Q&As to align a massive workforce.The "No Surprises" Communication Doctrine: Prepping cross-divisional leadership teams for major announcements to prevent speculation and protect brand trust.Visible Leadership Engagement: Emphasising "management by walking about" and maintaining direct touchpoints with operational teams to understand shifting organisational cultures.Human-Centric Storytelling: Why impactful narratives, whether delivered internally or externally, must always prioritise authentic human experience over polished corporate scripts.Maria shares the engaging story behind the "Queen of the Keys" honey initiative at BBC North, which utilised collaborative staff branding to raise money for Children in Need. She also reflects on her early career covering regional health investigations, the reality of working alongside Director-General Tim Davie, and her post-BBC focus on producing documentary podcasts in Ireland and finishing a drama script tailored for Sarah Lancashire.This episode is relevant for professionals working in:Internal Communications & HR Directors: Looking for framework blueprints to coordinate large, multi-site employee transformations.PR Agency Directors & Founders: Seeking to align client media expectations with modern digital-first newsroom capacities.Corporate Comms Leaders: Tasked with building consistent executive messaging, media handling guidelines, and change management strategies. Links and References BBC North / Media City UK: https://www.mediacityuk.co.uk/BBC 5 Live: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_liveBBC Sounds: https://www.bbc.co.uk/soundsBBC Bitesize: https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesizeBBC Local Radio – Make a Difference campaign: https://www.bbc.co.uk/makeadifferenceThe Scott Partnership: https://www.scottpr.com/Manchester Evening News: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/Lancashire Evening Telegraph: https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/Lancashire Evening Post: https://www.lep.co.uk/BBC Charter Review: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-charter-review-to-future-proof-the-bbc

How do you build enough authority to run corporate communications for a major multinational company by your mid-20s? In this episode of PR in the Real World, training expert and PR veteran Steve Dunne shares the exact strategies needed to build a resilient, high-value career in public relations.Steve Dunne’s career started by accident at age 16 when a corporate aptitude test declared him a hazard to engineering and placed him into the British Telecom press office. Over the next eight years, Steve used keen observation and structural mentorship to fast-track his growth, eventually running corporate comms for the massive brand before directing PR for HSBC and South African Airways. Steve reframes the traditional timeline for career progression, proving that authority in a boardroom relies entirely on professional expertise rather than age.The conversation explores the rigorous psychological demands of the PR sector, examining why public relations remains one of the toughest, most rejection-heavy industries. Steve outlines the fundamental mechanics of earning client respect, building a reliable media-triage instinct and why strategic practitioners must treat PR as a game of third-party endorsement rather than self-promotion. Whether you are entering an agency role or steering a corporate function, this episode offers a refreshing guide to managing your own career path.From a PR perspective, this episode covers:The Power of Mentorship: Finding a "warm dominant" mentor early in your career to accelerate skill development and build operational confidence.Earning Boardroom Authority: Shifting client perception away from age or demographic markers by establishing yourself as an expert with undeniable domain value.The Psychology of Rejection: Developing the thick skin and resilience required to handle the daily friction of a high-pressure corporate press office.PR as Third-Party Endorsement: Moving client expectations away from simple brand posturing toward trusted external validation.Accidental Skill Gathering: Capitalising on early career placement (such as hospital radio) to train an intuitive sense for headlines and spin.Strategic Self-Management: Taking direct accountability for your professional development loop rather than waiting for an employer to map it out.Steve shares a humorous look at his 16-year-old self conducting celebrity interviews for hospital radio at the Royal Free Hospital in North London, a venue right in the middle of historic constituencies held by Margaret Thatcher and Keir Starmer. He also explains why a solid foundation in basic English grammar and clear structural writing is still the ultimate differentiator for starting practitioners on Monday morning.This episode is relevant for professionals working in:Junior PR Account Executives: Looking for tactical steps to transition safely into account management and corporate pitching.In-House Communications Teams: Tasked with building trust and credibility alongside sceptical corporate executives and board members.PR Agency Founders & Directors: Seeking structured methods for internal talent management and professional mentoring.Marketing & Media Students: Looking for a realistic overview of the core competencies that define modern public relations success.Links and ReferencesSteve Dunne – Digital Drums: https://www.digitaldrums.co.ukSteve Dunne on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-dunne-fprca-a1b527a/The PRCA: https://www.prca.global/The CIPR: https://www.cipr.co.uk/PR in the Real World podcast: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/viva-podcast/Viva PR: https://www.vivapr.co.ukSimilar episodes25 Lessons from 25 Years with Graham Goodkind: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/graham-goodkind-on-25-lessons-from-25-years-of-frank-pr/

How do you drive data-led behaviour change when the stakes include public health and human dignity? In this episode of PR in the Real World, Edna Boampong, Director of Communications at Liverpool City Council, breaks down strategic public sector PR.Edna Boampong has navigated an award-winning career from early event promotion at the Ministry of Sound to leadership within the NHS and local government. Edna explains why she shifted to the public sector to reduce inequality, starting with the historic "Smoke Free Manchester" campaign.Now leading Liverpool, Edna tackles the challenges unique to local government, including budget consultations, multi-agency working and internal comms for 6,000 staff. She also discusses confronting online hate, providing a raw look at how her team balances public engagement with the critical need to protect vulnerable community members and staff from digital racism.From a PR perspective, this episode covers:Data-Informed Behaviour Change: Moving away from "one-size-fits-all" campaigns to build localised, insight-driven messaging.Transparency in Change Comms: The necessity of open communication from day one to maintain public trust.The Strategic Shift: Positioning a comms department as a table-sitting strategic asset rather than a simple print repository.Diversity in PR: Confronting the reality that fewer than 5% of senior NHS comms roles are held by ethnic minorities.Managing Online Hate: Practical protocols for protecting campaign participants and staff from toxic comment sections.Gamification of Comms: Using hyper-localised humour and digital polls to educate residents on high-friction civic issues.Edna shares details of two major MJ Award-shortlisted initiatives: the "Talking Bins" recycling campaign using Scouse humour and the "This Is Liverpool" anti-racism strategy. She also shares how an argument over an Adele remix at a party sparked the connection with her husband.This episode is relevant for professionals working in:Local Authority Comms: Frameworks for crisis handling, budget rollouts and behaviour change.NHS PR Managers: Navigating structural transformation and health equity.DE&I Champions: Committed to anti-racist communication and building diverse talent pipelines.Social Media Managers: Tasked with community moderation and managing workplace psychological safety.Links and referencesConnect with Edna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edna-boampong/ Edna’s appointment: https://liverpoolexpress.co.uk/liverpool-city-council-appoints-new-director-of-communications-and-engagement/ Edna Boampong – NHS Confederation profile: https://www.nhsconfed.org/people/edna-boampong Liverpool City Council – anti-racism commitment / This is Liverpool: https://liverpool.gov.uk/council/equality-diversity-and-inclusion/our-commitment-to-anti-racism Talking Bins / We’re Talking Bins campaign: https://liverpoolexpress.co.uk/third-liver-bird-highlights-liverpools-poor-recycling-rates Healthier Together programme (Greater Manchester): https://manchestercommunitycentral.org/news/healthier-together-integrated-impact-assessment-forums Similar episodesWhen PR is tested in real life with Sarah Keaveny https://www.vivapr.co.uk/when-pr-is-tested-in-real-life/ What Dry January can teach you about behaviour change with Joe Marley https://www.vivapr.co.uk/what-dry-january-can-teach-you-about-behaviour-change/ How brave and inclusive marketing can change lives with Louise Marsden https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-how-brave-inclusive-marketing-changes-lives/Comms-led change in the NHS with Neil Greaves https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-neil-greaves-comms-led-change-in-the-nhs/

How do you move a policy idea from a 100-page research report into a live debate in the Houses of Parliament? This episode of PR in the Real World, Harry Bradshaw, Communications Manager at the Centre for Social Justice (CSJ), takes us inside the SW1 bubble to reveal how real political influence is won.Harry Bradshaw's career has been deeply embedded in the corridors of power, transitioning from running Westminster offices for Members of Parliament to leading the communications strategy for one of the UK’s most influential think tanks. We explore the dual engine room of the CSJ, developing rigorous, evidence-based policy and deploying strategic communications to advocate for it. Harry demystifies the "Westminster bubble," showing how proximity to power facilitates vital relationships, while explaining how the CSJ stays grounded in the real world through an alliance of 1,000 grassroots charities.The conversation covers the tactical realities of political public relations, including how the CSJ used newsjacking and targeted social media content to shape the narrative around the recent budget. Harry breaks down why grabby, attention-making statistics must be paired with "oven-ready" solutions for time-poor politicians. From the genesis of major legislation like Universal Credit and the Modern Slavery Act to utilising short-form video to capture the attention of a younger generation of MPs, this episode is an absolute blueprint for mastering public affairs.From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:The Anatomy of a Think Tank: Balancing the integrity of the research engine room with high-impact advocacy and policy promotion.The "Oven-Ready" Solution Rule: Why PRs must make life as easy as possible for time-poor politicians by providing pre-drafted briefs and seamless event logistics.Tension in the Attention Economy: Managing the constant balance between complex research and the grabby, front-page headline.The Mechanics of Political Influence: Using press splashes to build public momentum, followed by targeted social media tagging and face-to-face minister briefings.Multi-Party Stakeholder Engagement: Navigating an increasingly fragmented political landscape by maintaining strict independence and cross-party networks.The Peril of Posturing: Moving away from "meetings and photos for the sake of it" toward clear, quantifiable strategic policy asks.This episode is relevant for professionals working in:Public Affairs & Corporate PR: Looking for a practical guide on how to lobby government and influence SW1 policymakers.Charity & Third-Sector Comms: Seeking to scale their local impact up to national government agendas.Local Authorities & Regional Businesses: Trying to engage their local MPs to support community investments or civic projects.Political Science & Journalism Students: Analysing the intersection of public policy, think tanks, and national media.Harry is running the London Marathon in aid of Power2 - a CSJ charity. Power2 work in school's across the country to give students the support and guidance they need to reach their potential. You can donate, here: http://2026tcslondonmarathon.enthuse.com/pf/harry-bradshawLinks and ReferencesCentre for Social Justice – https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.ukCSJ Alliance (network of small charities) – https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/about-us/allianceUniversal Credit (UK welfare reform referenced) – https://www.gov.uk/universal-creditModern Slavery Act 2015 – https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/modern-slavery-actWeMindTheGap charity – https://wemindthegap.org.ukOther similar episodesHow PR Changes Policy with Ruth Boston - https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-how-pr-changes-policy-influencing-the-national-agenda-with-ruth-boston/