One Step Beyond


S2E8: What is Fell Running and Why is it Punk Rock?

Season 2, Ep. 8
Boff Whalley is an author and musician (you may remember his old band Chumbawamba and their global hit "Tubthumping"),who put "Fell Runner" as occupation on his daughter's birth certificate. Gary Devine is his mate from the Leeds punk scene of the 1980s, who is a former British champion fell runner. "Faster! Louder!" is Boff's new book, all about Gary, and fell running, and punk rock. It is a damn good book, because Boff is a damn good author.Beaming in from the Yorkshire Dales (Boff) and the Swiss Alps (where Gary now lives) to the base of the Catskill Mountains (where host Tony Fletcher resides), they answer the question on every non fell-runner's lips:What is Fell Running?They also answer the question:Why Is It Punk Rock?And over the course of a fun-filled conversation, they also discussWhy fell running does not follow designated trails.Why the shortest way to the bottom of a hill is not always the quickest.Why the shortest way to the top of a hill is not always the quickest.Why the best way to get to the pub early is to finish the race early.Why Brits join running clubs and whether that is truly punk.Whether to sniff glue or not sniff glue.Whether Gary Devine is a force of nature, was genetically predestined to be a champion, trained as hard as he partied, or whether it was a combination of all three that made him national champion.Why everyone should listen to the One Step Beyond episode with Damian Hall.The importance of women runners in fell running.The importance of protecting the environment.And the importance of getting out in nature so as to relate to that environment.Throughout, Tony resists asking Boff what a fell runner should do if he gets knocked down."Faster! Louder! How a punk rocker from Yorkshire became British Champion Fell Runner" is available through Great Northern Books.Boff Whalley can be found at if you ask nicelyGary Devine can be found running up the French Alps, if you can catch him.Tony Fletcher will be found running again, if he recovers from his fractured knee. His website is tonyfletcher.netFollow One Step Beyond:Instagram is OneStepBeyondPodcastFacebook is One Step Beyond with Tony FletcherTony's other podcast, the [Jamming!] Fanzine Podcast is available via song is 'Yes Men' by the Dear Boys. by Mark Lerner. Photo taken at Arte Sumapaz in Cundinimarca, Colombia.If you like the show, please subscribe, rate, review, and feel free to follow the acast.supporter link below to buy us a coffee!

S2E7: Building an Intentional Community

Season 2, Ep. 7
For this episode, we reconnect with Ric Dragon, originally featured way back on Episode 7 of Season 1, in July 2020, shortly after he had opened Arte Sumapaz, a Centre for the Arts outside of Bogotá, Colombia. That episode focused on Ric’s middle-aged reset, in which he migrated to a new country with a troubled history and had just started this ambitious project. Now that I have been to Arte Sumapaz for an incredible residency myself, it’s time to check back and see how things are progressing.Specifically, what is going on ith the plan to create an Intentional Community amidst the 280 acres of land? In fact, what is an Intentional Community and can we all be part of one? How do we re-integrate our lives to better share communal values without living in a commune? How does Arte Sumapaz integrate itself into its own community of rural Colombians? What is sociocracy as a form of Government? How is the country faring under the new leftist Presidency? What are the plans for reforestation of the land – and how does that gel with plans to build more accommodations and open up trails? And, specifically, when can I personally go back for a longer stay?Ric Dragon describes himself as a painter, percussionist and writer. He has been an art teacher, and a reluctant entrepreneur who founded Dragon Search in the Catskills, a company that led him into the world of social media marketing and even to author a book on the subject. He is a relaxed and engaged commentator and an excellent interviewee. The points we hit on in our discussion are relevant to our lives far beyond the vast and varied land of Colombia and the visual arts.Arte Suamapaz is at www.artesumapaz.orgAnd on socials at and Dragon posts more personally, including his own art, at: episode with artist Clare Yandell, who I met at Arte Sumapaz and who subsequently painted murals all around Colombia to help finance her constant travels, is here.One Step Beyond on socials:Instagram is OneStepBeyondPodcastFacebook is One Step Beyond with Tony FletcherTwitter is OneStepBeyondP1The [Jamming!] Fanzine Podcast is available on your preferred streaming platform from song is 'Delaymania' by Noel Fletcher. Logo by Mark Lerner. Logo photo taken at Arte Sumapaz in Cundinimarca, Colombia.If you like the show, please subscribe, rate, review, and always feel free to follow the acast.supporter link to show your appreciation and buy us a coffee! They make it good in Colombia! 

S2E6: The Write Way out of PTSD

Season 2, Ep. 6
Michael Anthony is the 36-year-old author of the new graphic memoir JUST ANOTHER MEAT-EATING DIRTBAG, published by Street Noise with art by Chai Simone. While Michael describes his new book as essentially a ‘love story’ between two seemingly distinct characters with different outlooks on life and death in the human and animal kingdoms, it draws in part – as did the entirety of his first two books, Mass Casualties and Civilianized – from his experiences serving in the US Army in Iraq in the 2000s and the PTSD he suffered upon release from duty. After penning his way out of his troubles, which included additional substance and drug abuse, Anthony became a writing mentor to other Army veterans so that they too, can learn to live with their experiences by putting them on paper. In this discussion with host/fellow author Tony Fletcher, the pair tackle all manner of subjects: the merits of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the bloody field hospital operations that Anthony assisted in, the sense of failure knowing that Iraqi lives saved in surgery were likely lost once the Americans left, the cowardice and deception of certain military ‘leaders’, the prevalence of PTSD and suicide among veterans, how writing can help, how writing directly from experience can help even more, how Anthony came to pen a graphic memoir, and the all-important role of the illustrator. Especially, he discusses the relationship, detailed in Just Another Meat-Eating Dirtbag, with the love of his life, ‘Coconut’, a vegetarian and animal rights campaigner who Anthony describes as having a soul like ‘exposed nerve endings’. As their relationship develops, the memoir follows Anthony’s attempts to go ‘under cover’ by becoming a vegetarian in the hope of converting Coco, who had been fat-shamed by her mother as a child, back to meat. The conversation wraps up with a discussion about slaughterhouses in the food industry and on the battlefield, the surprising prevalence of vegetarianism among 'bad-ass army dudes', the movie The Game Changers, and the difficulties of giving up life-long habits, from meat to cigarettes. It is, believe it or not, an upbeat conversation!More info about Just Another Meat-Eating Dirtbag, including links for purchase: Anthony is at He can also be contacted directly through his website.Street Noise is at Simone is at Step Beyond on socials:Instagram is OneStepBeyondPodcastFacebook is One Step Beyond with Tony FletcherTwitter is OneStepBeyondP1Theme song is 'Yes Men' by The Dear Boys. Listen in full here.Logo by Mark Lerner. Logo photo taken at Arte Sumapaz in Cundinimarca, Colombia.

Climbing Kilimanjaro: The 4-part Documentary

What it's like to climb Mount Kilimanjaro? Your host Tony Fletcher documented his own experiences climbing to the Roof of Africa, as narrated in real time, alongside interviews with fellow climbers and guides, and on-the-mountain 'field' recordings; these were then combined with detailed historical and contextual studio narrative to form a four-part documentary with which One Step Beyond was originally launched. On this special episode, those four parts are edited together for the first time, their repetitive introductions and credits eliminated, and presented as one lengthy but complete documentary that you will hopefully find educational, entertaining, informative and, who knows, maybe inspirational. Here's what I wrote back at the launch:In August 2019, I set off from Kingston, New York, with four friends and a Tanzanian-born guide, to climb Mount Kilimanjaro. At 19,341 ft, or 5895 meters above sea level, Kilimanjaro is the highest point in Africa, and the tallest free-standing mountain in the world. About 50,000 people a year attempt the summit; not all of them make it. The intense demands on the body in ever-thinning air cause many people to give up before they can reach the peak.I’m a writer and broadcaster by trade, so I brought my recording devices along with me for the journey up the mountain. Over the course of this mini-series, it’s my hope that you’ll be able to experience a little bit of what it’s like to go on an adventure like this, and that by the time we are all done, you’ll be ready to embark on one of your own.The starting time for each episode is given in the summary below. Feel free to pause and come back. And if you want to join us on a trip some time, make contact: details at the bottom of the show notes! EPISODE 1 (3:30): Meeting, planning, getting to know each other - Tony, Tim, Gwen, Steve and Marie, plus tour guide Protus - and heading out from Arusha to Mawenzi and the base of Kili itself.EPISODE 2 (33:30): Phallic trees, a first sighting of Kibo, an encounter with the Spice Girls, and a serious attack of altitude sickness.EPISODE 3 (1:01:30): Shrinking glaciers, blistering winds, sudden snow, and a two-hour nap at extreme elevation before an attempt on the Kilimanjaro summit.EPISODE 4 (1:30:10): Our team wrestles with a seemingly endless overnight slog up the side of a volcano, serious attacks of altitude sickness, and a long and desperate slog on the last stretch to the roof of Africa. Do we all make it to the summit? Let's put it this way: there are celebratory dinners and dances at the end of it all.E-mail the show with questions or comments.Subscribe to the newsletter.Find us on social media:InstagramFacebookTwitterUse of 'One Step Beyond' by Madness with permission. Logo by Mark Lerner of Rag & Bone Shop.And your host can be found

S2E5: Colombia's Calling, with Claire Yandell

Season 2, Ep. 5
Claire Yandell is a 27-yr old traveler and artist who has managed to take her art on her travels and even have it help pay for her travels. She and Tony met in October 2021 at Arte Sumapaz in Colombia (check Episode 7 of One Step Beyond for more about Arte Sumapaz), a country with which Claire fell in love and lived for eighteen months, until just recently. (She intends to return in the New Year of 2023.) In this ‘reunion’ conversation, the American-born Claire tells Tony about her extensive travels since the age of 18, why she abandoned art school, how she fell in love with Colombia, the attractions of the country, its people, its geography and its culture, and how she has bartered art for accommodation and otherwise taken commissions on her way to painting approximately 20 murals across Colombia to date. Understanding that traveling means lowering one’s financial expectations, Claire has volunteered as a cook, a yoga teacher, an artist and in the fields, and chosen to stay with local families rather than in hostels, all as a means to live economically and to better understand the culture. She and Tony also talk about their time at Arte Sumepaz, how to eat successfully in a country like Colombia as a non-meat-eater, visa problems, plus the recent Presidential Election and what it means for the future of this convoluted country. Claire Yandell can be found on Instagram at, where she shows and periodically sells her art in various forms and mediums.Episode 7 of One Step Beyond: From the Catskills to Colombia, can be found at: Calling podcast is at Claim podcast is at Post article on the challenges facing the new President Gustavo Petro: Email One Step Beyond at:Instagram is OneStepBeyondPodcastFacebook is One Step Beyond with Tony FletcherTwitter is OneStepBeyondP1Theme sons are 'Yes Men' and 'Action' by The Dear Boys. Listen in full here.Logo by Mark Lerner. Logo photo taken at Arte Sumapaz in Cundinimarca, Colombia. 

S2E4: Apply Pressure & Elevate, with the O Positive Festival

Season 2, Ep. 4
The O Positive Festival, held in Kingston, New York, in early October every year, presents a weekend full of music, art and wellness activities across all genres and disciplines, for all age groups, indoors and outdoors, and all for the price of a donation. But it's behind the scenes that O Positive has the biggest impact. The festival confronts the lack of affordable and free health care amongst the USA's artistic community by exchanging 'The Art of Medicine' for 'The Medicine of Art' by which "underinsured artists and musicians create and perform in exchange for a variety of services donated by doctors, dentists and complementary care providers."For this Episode of One Step Beyond, Tony Fletcher speaks with Art Director Lindsay Wolkowicz and Music Director Lara Hope about the specific health problems working artists face going about their manual labour, and how O Positive seeks to make a lasting change in the landscape of USA health care - or rather, the lack of it. Tony also takes his tape recorder around the various concerts, wellness activities, and interactive art displays, which range from tours of the Festival's celebrated Murals program, to a Mindfulness walk, an interactive book-gifting art display, and music by such varied acts as Mercury Rev, Roxiny, Sonny Singh, Amanda Palmer and the Mac & Cheeze Balkan Power Trio.More information about the O Positive festival can be found athttps://opositivefestival.orgThe O Positive 2022 Festival Music Preview playlist can be found at IlluminatiO+n immersive art, music and wellness audio tour is available at: Kelly G is at of this year's commissioned murals depicted below, depending on your streaming platform:Questions/comments/suggestions? Email One Step Beyond at:Instagram is OneStepBeyondPodcastFacebook is One Step Beyond with Tony FletcherTwitter is OneStepBeyondP1Theme song is 'Yes Men' by The Dear Boys. Listen in full here.Logo by Mark Lerner. Logo photo taken at Arte Sumepaz in Cundinimarca, Colombia. 

S2E3: We Can't Run Away From This, with Damian Hall

Season 2, Ep. 3
Damian Hall is a British trail runner with several Fastest Known Times to his name, including a famed record-breaking 261-mile run on the UK’s Pennine Way in 2020. A former journalist, he has become equally well known for his environmental activism, qualities that come together in his new book We Can’t Run Away From This: Racing to Improve Running’s Footprint In Our Climate Emergency. In this interview with Tony Fletcher, Damian discusses why our outdoor lifestyle choices - including but not limited to running - are frequently, if unintentionally, bad for the planet, what we can do about it, and why we should stay positive about having a positive impact in the long run. Tony then reports on his research into the clothing/shoe companies he purchases from, and reflects on his own dietary and travel imprints from running. The show ends with the new Dear Boys song ‘Action’, written about the climate emergency and coincidentally released as a 7” single the same day as this show.  Specific subjects discussed:The three main components of our athletic environmental footprint: Gear/Kit, Diet, Travel.Why shoe companies should make less shoes, and why we should buy less of them and repair/reuse/recycle more of them.Why Race Directors need to stop giving away unwanted shirts, medals, and other paraphernalia.The responsibility that ‘Sponbassadencers’ (© Damian Hall) like himself have towards educating their followings – and also to the companies that give them free gear.Why he became a Full Annoying Vegan (© Damian Hall) and how switching from a carnivorous diet to a plant-based diet can reduce our carbon footprint from food by a staggering 70% - or approx. 18% of our overall carbon footprint.Why he stopped flying to races. But might still do so.Why it is better to embrace hypocrisy than do nothing.Why he picked up litter/trash on his Pennine Way FKT in 2020 (and on his failed attempt to reclaim that title in 2022).And how you can get three of his books for one British steak.Damian Hall can be found at and his social media via'We Can't Run Away From This' is published by Adventure Books which also published his book 'In It For The Long Run' film Underdog about his 2020 Pennine Way FKT is at imdb. policies discussed by Tony:Patagonia: Worn Wear and 'Our Impact' 'Sustainable Way' 'Sustainability' Running 'Our Values' Sportswear 'Social Impact' 'Giving Back' 'Sustainability' Bar 'Who We' Are Game Changers movie on the protein myth:'Action' by the Dear Boys is available on all streaming platforms: and at of proceeds go to Friends of the EarthWritten by Tony Page. Used with permission. Copyright control.

S2E2 - Barefoot Hiking, with Ken Posner

Season 2, Ep. 2
Ken Posner recently completed the 211-mile John Muir Trail in California's Sierra Nevada Mountains... barefoot from start to finish. On this episode, he takes host Tony Fletcher onto a trail in the more forgiving Shawangunk Mountains of the Hudson Valley to explain, and demonstrate, the benefits of hiking barefoot, on easy trails like this but also on the toughest parts of the John Muir Trail.Ken was previously the guest on Season 1, Episode 15 of One Step Beyond, when he took Tony on a 'bushwack' hike up one of the Catskills peaks, without navigation. Ken's list of achievements is impressive for a late starter and someone who still holds down a desk job. In 2013, he achieved what was then the Fastest Known Time (9 days) for Running The Long Path through New York, and wrote a book about the experience. The following year, he set a still-standing FKT for the Badwater Double, a 146-mile, near 15,000-ft climb from the lowest point in the Continental US to the highest point, at the top of Mount Whitney – and back again, covering the 292 miles in under 4 days. He has also gone barefoot in conducting the Grid - all 35 of the Catskills 3500ft peaks in all 12 months.Ken Posner's blog can be found at can be found on Twitter, Instagram and on YouTube.Also in this episode: Tony reports back on his Marathon March in aid of the Palace for Life foundation, taking on all 26.5 miles, all four 3500ft+ peaks, and all 6-7000ft elevation of the Cat’s Tail Trail Marathon a week after the foundation’s annual sponsored marathon walk around south London. Tony's aim was to complete it within the 10-hr cut-off time set for runners - without running. Did he succeed? Listen in to find out. You can support Tony's fundraising at Palace for Life foundation is at Email One Step Beyond at:Instagram is OneStepBeyondPodcastFacebook is One Step Beyond with Tony FletcherTwitter is OneStepBeyondP1Theme song is 'Yes Men' by The Dear Boys. Listen in full here.Logo by Mark Lerner. Photo taken at Arte Sumepaz in Cundinimarca, Colombia. 

S2E1 - The Joy of Exercise with Matt Fitzgerald

Season 2, Ep. 1
To get us warmed up on this first episode of our long overdue new series/season, Tony talks to Matt Fitzgerald, an endurance coach, nutritionist and prolific author about physiology and running, the joys of exercise, the ABCs of fitness, and the 80/20 philosophy of training that puts the emphasis on keeping most workouts easy. Matt also explains the pitfall of Superhumanization in regard to East African running dominance, the reality of the Group Effect within sports, how what biologists call Convergent Evolution resulted in the proven 80/20 method, discusses his Coaches of Color program, and talks about his long battle with Long Covid. In part 2, around the 1-hour mark, Tony describes how an overdue new challenge was inspired in part by conversation with Matt about his book How Bad Do You Want It?. On October 1, Tony will be hiking rather than running, and hopefully within the 10-hour cut-off, the Cat’s Tail Trail Marathon in support of the Palace for Life foundation’s annual south London Marathon March. In the final section,Tony checks in with Jim Daly of the FYP Podcast in the midst of the main march on Sep 24, and plays an excerpt from his own appearance on the FYP Podcast discussing his personal challenge in detail. Please support Tony's efforts, if only to offer encouragement, at The Palace for Life foundation is at FYP Podcast is at can be found at: and's podcast can be found at Coaches of Color Initiative is at Running Public interviews with Matt Fitzgerald can be found here; on the most recent one he talks in greater depth about Long Covid and also about his new book, Race Pace.Questions/comments/suggestions? Email One Step Beyond at:Instagram is OneStepBeyondPodcastFacebook is One Step Beyond with Tony FletcherTwitter is OneStepBeyondP1Theme song is 'Yes Men' by The Dear Boys. Listen in full here.Logo by Mark Lerner. Photo taken at Arte Sumepaz in Cundinimarca, Colombia.