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The Messy Spirituality Podcast

Why Can't We Be Friends?

Season 4, Ep. 5

In this conversation, Lola, Kyle, and Jason discuss the news regarding Matt Chandler, lead pastor of The Village Church in Flower Mound, TX who recently stepped down due to what he referred to as "non-sexual, non-romantic, unwise course joking" with a female via direct messages. We look at how the situation was handled and the questions raised by the church's response.


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We'll be back with a new episode every two weeks! Thanks for listening to the podcast. We love having you with us on this journey!

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  • 23. In the Margins

    23:13||Season 4, Ep. 23
    In this episode, Lola interviews ordained priest and writer Shannon Kearns.Shannon TL Kearns is a transgender man who believes in the transformative power of story. As an ordained priest, a playwright, a theologian, and a writer all of his work revolves around making meaning through story. He's the co-founder of QueerTheology.com and his first book, In the Margins: A Transgender Man's Journey with Scripture was published by Eerdmaan’s books. He was the founder and Artistic Director of Uprising Theatre Company in Minneapolis. Shannon is a recipient of the Playwrights’ Center Jerome Fellowship in 20/21 and he was a Lambda Literary Fellow for 2019 (in playwriting) and 2022 (screenwriting) and a Finnovation Fellow for 2019/2020. He is a sought after speaker on transgender issues and religion as well as a skilled facilitator of a variety of workshops. His work with Brian G. Murphy at QueerTheology.com has reached more than a million people all over the world through videos, articles, and online courses and community. Follow the crew:You can find Lola on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTokYou can find Kyle on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.You can find Jason on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter (because he's way too old for TikTok).Be sure to check out our Youtube channel.Also, please join the conversation over on our Messy Conversations group on FB!Thanks for listening! Please leave us a rating or review and subscribe or follow the show on your platform of choice!
  • 22. When It's Time to Walk Away

    57:40||Season 4, Ep. 22
    This Quoircast podcast episode is brought to you by The Wild Olive Podcast. Check them out!This episode is also brought to you by Peaceful Warrior Coffee Company where they perfectly roast their single-origin beans on the same day they ship to you and shipping is always free. Jason recommends trying the Gourmet Breakfast Blend!In this episode, the crew talks about how we can know when it's time to walk away from a toxic religious environment.The crew welcomes Instagrammer, YouTuber, and soon-to-be author, Laci Bean to the show to unpack her spiritual journey.You can follow Laci on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.Laci will be speaking at Awaken Nashville 2023. Register now before all the tickets are gone!Follow the crew:You can find Lola on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTokYou can find Kyle on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.You can find Jason on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter (because he's way too old for TikTok).Be sure to check out our Youtube channel.Also, please join the conversation over on our Messy Conversations group on FB!Thanks for listening! Please leave us a rating or review and subscribe or follow the show on your platform of choice!
  • 21. Living More Authentically

    01:04:28||Season 4, Ep. 21
    This Quoircast podcast episode is brought to you by the book, Drugs and Jesus, by Joshua Lawson which is available now!This episode is also brought to you by Peaceful Warrior Coffee Company where they perfectly roast their single-origin beans on the same day they ship to you and shipping is always free. Jason recommends trying the Tanzania!In this episode, the crew talks about how we can live more authentically as our true selves and some common obstacles to being who we really are.Jason interviews author Karen Shock. Karen is the author of the brand-new book, Too Much and Not Enough: Sacred Thoughts Said Out Loud" which releases on April 18, 2023. You definitely do not want to miss this book! It's absolutely incredible! Be sure to be on the look-out for Karen's new podcast "Sacred Thoughts Said Out Loud" coming soon!You can follow Karen on Facebook and Instagram. Follow the crew:You can find Lola on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTokYou can find Kyle on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.You can find Jason on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter (because he's way too old for TikTok).Be sure to check out our Youtube channel.Also, please join the conversation over on our Messy Conversations group on FB!Thanks for listening! Please leave us a rating or review and subscribe or follow the show on your platform of choice!
  • PREVIEW: Parenting Deconstructed-The Podcast

    14:43|
    In this introductory episode of his brand-new podcast, Jason Elam discusses the need for a wholesale re-evaluation of our parenting methods in light of spiritual deconstruction. You can purchase a copy of the book, Parenting Deconstructed: Navigating Your Spiritual Evolution Without Leaving Your Family Behind, here.Please follow Parenting Deconstructed on Facebook and Instagram.Up next: Chapter One featuring Keith Giles, releasing Friday, April 7th, 2023.Please be sure to follow or subscribe to "Parenting Deconstructed-The Podcast" on your podcasting app of choice. Thank you!This episode was brought to you by Peaceful Warrior Coffee Company where specialty grade, single-origin beans are perfectly roasted and shipped the same day giving you the freshest coffee available. Shipping is always free to U.S. addresses! Use code "Family" for 15% off your first order.
  • 20. A Compassionate Response to Addiction

    01:02:41||Season 4, Ep. 20
    This Quoircast podcast episode is brought to you by The Story of Christianity Told As Good News for All by Ric Machuga which is available now!This episode is also brought to you by Peaceful Warrior Coffee Company where they perfectly roast their single-origin beans on the same day they ship to you and shipping is always free.In this episode, the crew talks about substance use disorder, harm reduction, and how people of faith can respond more compassionately. For insight on this, Jason talks to Joshua Lawson who has written two books on the subject. Josh lives with his family in southern Ohio, where he works in a variety of roles to support and empower the most vulnerable members of his community. His experience in Christian ministry spans the gamut from house church facilitator to small group director to lead pastor. After serving in both evangelical and progressive circles for two decades, he stepped away from formal ministry to live and work as a regular human being. Be sure to pick up Josh's books, The Face of Addiction and Drugs and Jesus (releasing April 11). You can follow Josh on Facebook.. Subscribe to Josh's Substack here. Josh is also a co-author of the compilation book, Parenting Deconstructed: Navigating Your Spiritual Evolution Without Leaving Your Family Behind, with also includes chapters from some of your favorite heretics!Follow the crew:You can find Lola on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTokYou can find Kyle on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.You can find Jason on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter (because he's way too old for TikTok).Be sure to check out our Youtube channel.Thanks for listening! Please leave us a rating or review on your platform of choice!
  • 19. Are You Ready to Get Unstuck?

    38:12||Season 4, Ep. 19
    Hey, everyone. Jason here again. I got so much great feedback from the "Jesus the Mystic" message that I did a couple of weeks ago, that I decided to turn it into a series. Here is the second installment, "Are You Ready to Get Unstuck?".Sometimes, the way out of our rut is simpler than we think.What is your next step to getting unstuck? We'd love to hear from you in our Messy Conversations group on Facebook.By the way, the Robcast episode that I refer to in this message can be found here. It's the best argument I've heard against cancel culture and very much worth considering.If you'd prefer, you can watch the video of this episode on our Youtube channel.Recommended Reading:Jesus’ Alternative Plan by Richard RohrReturning to Eden by Heather HamiltonReferred to in this episode:The Wisdom of Hobbits by Matthew J. DistefanoParenting Deconstructed Compiled by Jason and Brandi Elam
  • 18. Wisdom from The Shire

    47:20||Season 4, Ep. 18
    This Quoircast podcast episode if brought to you by Keith Giles' latest book, Sola Mysterium: Celebrating the Beautiful Uncertainty of Everything. Order your copy of this groundbreaking book today!This episode is also brought to you by Peaceful Warrior Coffee Co. Use promo code "Messy" for 20% off of your first order!In this conversation, Lola, Kyle, and Jason are joined by publisher, author, and podcaster Matthew J. Distefano to discuss finding inspiration among the hobbits of J.R.R. Tolkien's Shire.Matthew J. Distefano is the author of multiple books, including the wildly popular Heretic! and From the Blood of Abel. He is an audio engineer, the producer of the Heretic Happy Hour podcast, cohost of Apostates Anonymous, and is a regular columnist for Patheos. He holds an undergraduate degree in Education from California State University, Chico. Matthew enjoys gardening, bicycling, and European football. He is a huge Tolkien nerd who one day hopes to live in Bag End with his wife and daughter. You can find his work at allsetfree.com.Be sure to check out Matt's brand-new book, The Wisdom of Hobbits, when it releases on March 14, 2023!Join the conversation on our Messy Conversations Facebook group.Don't miss our new compilation book, Parenting Deconstructed: Navigating Your Spiritual Evolution Without Leaving Your Family Behind, with chapters from some of your favorite heretics!Follow the crew:You can find Lola on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTokYou can find Kyle on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.You can find Jason on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter (because he's way too old for TikTok).Be sure to check out our Youtube channel.Thanks for listening! Please leave us a rating or review on your platform of choice!
  • 17. The Cost of Censorship

    49:03||Season 4, Ep. 17
    This Quoircast podcast episode is brought to you by the book "What Can't Be Hidden" by Brandon Andess. Order your copy today here.In this new episode, Lola, Kyle, and Jason welcome Quoir Publishers and authors Matthew J. Distefano and Keith Giles for a conversation about censorship and its' high cost for society.Books you are going to want to check out after listening to this episode:The Kingdom of God is Within You by Leo TolstoyAlice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass by Lewis CarrollA Spring Harvest by Geoffrey Bache SmithSola Mysterium by Keith GilesThe Wisdom of Hobbits by Matthew J. Distefano (releasing March 14)Returning to Eden: a field guide for the spiritual journey by Heather HamiltonJoin the conversation on our Messy Conversations Facebook group.Don't miss our new compilation book, Parenting Deconstructed: Navigating Your Spiritual Evolution Without Leaving Your Family Behind, with chapters from some of your favorite heretics!Follow the crew:You can find Lola on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTokYou can find Kyle on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.You can find Jason on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter (because he's way too old for TikTok.Want to be a producer of the show and get exclusive access to videos, blog posts, and merch from the hosts of the show? Check out our Patreon page!Thanks for listening! Please leave us a rating or review on your platform of choice!
  • 16. Sunday Sermon: Jesus the Mystic

    38:40||Season 4, Ep. 16
    Hey, everyone! Jason here. I was in the car for 10 hours yesterday and had bursts of conversation with God. I took some notes to share with you. This one is a little out there and might stretch some of my evangelical friends. Please stick with me. I think you'll like where we end up.In this talk, I discuss:The need to separate Jesus the first-century teacher from the religious icon passed down to us.The first century understanding of some of Jesus' key teachings.What forgiveness and loving our enemies really look like.The value of surrenderWhat it really means to be "woke".I hope you'll find this talk helpful. If so, please let me know. I'd love to hear from you in the comments at MessySpirituality.org.Suggested reading:How to Be An Anti-Racist by Ibram X KendiReturning to Eden by Heather HamiltonSolo Mysterium by Keith GilesThe Universal Christ by Richard RohrThe Universe Has Your Back by Gabrielle BernsteinParenting Deconstructed compiled by Jason and Brandi ElamQuestion for discussion in the comments:What is your place of surrender?*These are affiliate links and buying these books from these links will send us a small stipend that will help us keep making these videos.