Grief is a Sneaky Bitch

This special episode is a reminder of where we’ve been, what we’ve learned, and where we’re going next season! Host Lisa Keefauver closes out Season 7 of the show by reflecting on the conversations, guests, and lessons that shaped the year. She reminded us of the wisdom guests Marisa Renee Lee, Michelle Hord, Sandi Serling, and Angela Schellenberg offered on navigating complex losses and emotions. Guests Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer, Naila Francis, and Sara Rian taught us about the power of poetry, metaphor, and creativity. You’ll get a sense (or be reminded) of the topics and wisdom offered by the other incredible 13 guests as well. In a preview of what’s coming next, Lisa also explores the story behind her decision to have a theme for the first time in the show’s history. Launching later this month, listeners will get a glimpse of some of the special guests and topics coming next, with a strong focus on aliveness, the narratives that keep us stuck, and the power of curiosity for navigating seasons of uncertainty.About Host:Host Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, narrative therapy trained social worker, widow, and cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: at https://lisakeefauver.com/supportFOR SPEAKING INQUIRIES: Contact Bright Sight Speakers at https://www.brightsightspeakers.com/speakers-a-z/lisa-keefauverREAD HER BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ HER ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chipsLEAVE A RATING AND WRITE A REVIEW: at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch/id1474558908

J.S. Park returns to Grief is a Sneaky Bitch for a deeply moving conversation about the themes in his forthcoming book, We Are Made of Us. Together, we explore what it means to contend with family-of-origin, family dynamics, and inherited trauma. This episode may change how you see your family, your grief, and your own capacity to heal.They pull back the curtain on intergenerational trauma, revealing how our familial patterns can be both the wound and the way forward. J.S. (who goes by Joon) shares powerful insights from his work as a chaplain, including how to recognize and reframe inherited family burdens. We also unpack the idea that cycles (whether of trauma or love) aren’t meant to be “broken” once and for all, but carried with intention—and that we can create safe circles as we heal. Along the way, they touch on some of Lisa’s favorite themes: seeing the world as both/and rather than either/or, the power of the questions we ask ourselves, and the importance of noticing evidence of our healing instead of focusing only on our broken parts.ABOUT GUESTJ.S. Park is a hospital chaplain, published author, and online educator. For eleven years he has been an interfaith chaplain at a 1000+ bed hospital that is designated a Level 1 Trauma Center. His role includes grief support, attending every death, trauma, and Code Blue, and end-of-life care.J.S. has been interviewed by CNN, NPR, CBS News, Good Morning America, The Today Show, Bay News 9, and FOX13 Tampa Bay, among others, for his work in death and dying. He is the author of As Long as You Need and We Are Made of Us, an upcoming book on contending with our family-of-origin, family dynamics, and inherited trauma.J.S. served for three years as a chaplain at one of the largest nonprofit charities for the homeless on the east coast. J.S. is a board certified chaplain and has a MDiv completed in 2010 and a BA in Psychology. He also has a sixth-degree black belt.READ HIS BOOKS: As Long As You Need and pre-order We Are Made of UsREAD HIS ESSAYS: J.S. Park on SubstackABOUT HOST AND SHOWLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, narrative therapy trained social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD HER BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ HER ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

Casey Mulligan Walsh, author of The Full Catastrophe, joined host Lisa Keefauver for a profound conversation on how much loss shapes us more deeply than we realize—especially when it's modeled by those we'd turn to for guidance. In this raw and insightful conversation, Casey reveals how early trauma and unspoken grief patterns silently influence our lives. From surviving the sudden death of her parents as a child to navigating the chaos of divorce and the heartbreak of losing her son, Casey shares her journey toward reclaiming agency, understanding her parts, and finding peace in the liminal spaces of life.Discover how early grief beliefs—built on myths, avoidance, and emotional suppression—can trap us in survival mode and obscure our true selves. Casey shares concrete frameworks like parts therapy and Viktor Frankl’s tragic optimism that help us embrace life's uncertainties without losing hope. You'll learn how resilience isn’t about denying pain but about developing a muscle of hope, presence, and acceptance in the face of ongoing tragedy.We break down: the importance of curiosity and compassion in rewriting our stories; the way early loss robs us of roots and stability—and how to rebuild both through choice; and the role of reflective practices in unveiling the narratives driving our behavior. Casey’s story challenges us to see that even in the darkest times, a shift in perspective can foster peace, purpose, and aliveness.ABOUT GUESTCasey Mulligan Walsh writes about life at the intersection of grief and joy, embracing uncertainty, and the nature of true belonging. Her award-winning memoir, The Full Catastrophe: All I Ever Wanted, Everything I Feared, was released from Motina Books in February 2025. She has written for The New York Times, HuffPost, Next Avenue, Modern Loss, The Manifest-Station, Hippocampus, Barren Magazine, and numerous other literary magazines; her essay, “Still,” published in Split Lip, was nominated for Best of the Net. She is a founding editor of In a Flash literary magazine and serves as an ambassador and Board member for the Family Heart Foundation. Casey lives in upstate New York with her husband, Kevin, and too many books to count. When not traveling, they enjoy visits from their four children and ten grandchildren—the very definition of “the full catastrophe.”LEARN MORE ABOUT CASEY: www.caseymulliganwalsh.com. Substack newsletter Embracing the Full Catastrophe; Facebook @Casey Mulligan Walsh, Casey Mulligan Walsh, Author; Instagram @caseymulliganwalsh, LinkedIn @Casey Mulligan Walsh, BlueSky @caseymulliganwalsh; Threads @Casey Mulligan WalshREAD BOOK: The Full Catastrophe https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-full-catastrophe-all-i-ever-wanted-everything-i-feared-casey-mulligan-walsh/c0cbe91f9be3317dABOUT HOST AND SHOWLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, narrative therapy trained social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

Mae Yoshikawa, author, TEDx speaker, and the creator of Kizuki Journaling, joins host Lisa Keefauver to explore her profound journey through grief, culture, and embodiment. Her reflections challenge us to see grief not as a problem to fix, but as an integral part of human experience that deepens our capacity to love and live fully.Key topics:Cultural differences in grieving: Japanese vs. American approaches to deathThe importance of acknowledging and expressing emotion, rather than suppressing itAmbiguous loss: navigating the slow deterioration of her mother’s Alzheimer’sWidowhood and what she hopes her children will understand about griefThe transformative power of yoga, meditation, and embodied practices in healingHow cultural norms shape our grief narratives and emotional responsesThe role of storytelling, mindfulness, and observation in expanding emotional capacityPractical tools for holding space for grief in ourselves and othersThe shift from seeking certainty to embracing what is through mindful presenceABOUT GUESTMae Yoshikawa is an author, TEDx speaker, and the creator of Kizuki Journaling, a self-awareness practice rooted in the Japanese concept of kizuki—a moment of deep realization that changes how we relate to ourselves and our lives. Trained in yoga and mindfulness, and recognized by platforms such as Yoga Journal and adidas, Mae brings decades of embodied practice to her work. After the sudden loss of her husband, her path became a living exploration of grief, presence, and meaning beyond fixing or “moving on.” Bridging Eastern philosophy with lived experience, she guides people to meet loss, identity shifts, and life transitions with clarity, compassion, and truth.LEARN MORE ABOUT MAE: https://maey.live KIZUKI JOURNALING: https://kizukijournaling.com KIZUKI the PODCAST: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KKMi7W9VOC8ZbNgroJGBW? si=1be426519a3642c9 INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/maeyoshikawaABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, narrative therapy trained social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

In a world overwhelmed by collective trauma and personal grief, how can we rebuild trust, safety, and connection—starting from within? Angela Schellenberg, trauma therapist and expert in attachment and somatic healing joins host Lisa Keefauver as she unpacks how early wounds shape our current relationships with ourselves and others—and reveals transformative tools to rewire that deep wiring.This episode shatters the myth that grief is linear or predictable. Angela shares her powerful journey through childhood loss, from her father's violent death to her mother's mental illness, illustrating how unprocessed trauma embeds itself in our nervous system, often surfacing as shame, frozen grief, and disconnection. She illustrates how these early attachment wounds generate patterns—seeking the familiar, recreating dysfunctional dynamics, and feeling unsafe in our own bodies—often without conscious awareness. You'll discover: how healing attachment wounds through relationship and community is not just possible but essential; why trauma lives in the body—and how somatic therapies like EMDR and equine therapy mobilize profound change; the importance of moving beyond intellectual understanding to embodied trust; and practical ways to cultivate self-compassion, discernment, and inner safety. Angela emphasizes that attachment wounds are always healable—when we have a safe container, mindful movement, and compassionate community—and urges us to reclaim our innate wisdom.This episode is essential listening for anyone navigating grief, trauma, or relational wounds, especially in turbulent times. If you’re yearning to shed the shame, unlock your inner resilience, and forge authentic connections—Angela’s insights will change the way you see healing.ABOUT GUESTAngela Schellenberg is a licensed trauma and grief therapist, Equine Therapist, Attachment-Focused EMDR specialist, and certified Mother Hunger® Facilitator based in LA County. Licensed in California, Washington, and Arizona, Angela specializes in helping women in grief recognize how their early attachment wounds may be showing up in their grief. She lost both parents by the age of 22 and brings deep personal and clinical insight to her work. Angela created the Healing with Horses Somatic Grief Retreat in Malibu, co-leads early mother loss retreats with Hope Edelman, and has taught at the Omega Institute. She is also the founder and host of the Grief, Trauma & Your Mama podcast.LEARN MORE ABOUT ANGELA at: www.angelaschellenberg.comABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, narrative therapy trained social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

Sandi Serling, creator and host of Fear Unzipped, joins host Lisa Keefauver to explore the profound connection between grief, love, and spiritual healing. Sandi shares her wisdom on how fear shapes the nervous system, perception, and identity. Together, they explore the role of fear and how we can reshape our relationship with it. Through awareness, we can learn to elevate our frequency to connect with loved ones who have passed. This episode is for anyone carrying fear or anxiety in their grief, and for those hoping to find more ease and feel their loved ones’ presence in their lives.ABOUT GUESTSandi Serling is the creator and host of FEAR UNZIPPED®, a podcast where neuroscience and metaphysics intersect to explore how fear shapes the nervous system, perception, and identity. Her work is rooted in the understanding that fear is not something broken within us, but a learned response that can be reshaped through awareness. For much of her life, Sandi experienced shyness and anxiety without realizing that her intuitive sensitivity was absorbing the emotional and energetic states of others. Fear became a quiet but persistent presence, subtly influencing her choices and sense of self. She spent over 30 years in public relations and marketing, founding Serling Media Relations and working with respected individuals across entertainment, television, and emerging brands. Despite outward success, deeper questions remained. What is my purpose? And what is fear asking of me? A decade-long immersion in neuroscience and metaphysical practices, compounded by the loss of both her parents within four months, marked a profound turning point. Through neuroplasticity and conscious awareness, Sandi came to see fear not as an adversary, but as a messenger. As its grip loosened, clarity, agency, and self-trust emerged. She says FEAR UNZIPPED® didn’t come from her but through her. Sandi hosts the show as a fellow explorer. Her work invites attention to signs and the courage to trust what is unfolding.FREE GUIDE: MEET YOUR GUIDES AND LOVED ONES https://fearunzipped.com/meet-your-guides.ABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, narrative therapy trained social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

Sara Rian joins host Lisa Keefauver for an honest, courageous, and vulnerable conversation exploring the both/and of living, loving, and the devastating grief and trauma we experience in the wake of death by suicide. She has been drawn to grief poetry ever since her mother Susan’s death in 2018. Sara offers deep compassion for her mothers choice to end her life, speaks about the complexity of being a clinician who also works with people experiencing thoughts of suicide, and she shares how and what she did to metabolize her mother’s death - including producing 7 extraordinary books of poetry. She reflects on what allows her to be present and love authentically, not out of fear, but because of the preciousness of this life.ABOUT THE GUESTSara Rian is an accomplished poet, author, mother, wife, licensed therapist, and griever living in Metro Detroit. She has been drawn to grief poetry ever since her mother died in 2018. As a mental health professional, suicide loss survivor, and grieving human, Sara shares her work with others to let them know that they are not alone in their love or grief.MORE ABOUT SARA AND HER BOOKS: To learn more about Sara or pick up one of her extraordinary books of poetry, including, As A Waterfall head to www.sararianbooks.comABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, narrative therapy trained social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

Marisa Renee Lee returns for a second conversation with host Lisa Keefauver to discuss her powerful new book, Waiting for Dawn, which delves deeply into the nuanced experience of living with ongoing uncertainty, particularly in the context of grief, chronic illness, and systemic challenges. As always, Marisa is candid, warm, and witty - offering insights that empower listeners to navigate life's unpredictable moments with resilience, honesty, and hope.Key Topics:The concept of gray grief and navigating ambiguous, non-death lossesHow chronic illness like long COVID reshapes our understanding of identity and communityThe importance of acceptance and honest acknowledgment of pain as a pathway to healingPractical frameworks like the spoon theory for managing energy and emotional resourcesBuilding hope through honest assessment, action, and flexible pivotingRecognizing systemic barriers, especially internalized ableism, in our journey of acceptanceThe active practice of healing as ongoing rather than a fixed destinationABOUT GUESTMarisa Renee Lee is the award-winning and bestselling author of Grief is Love. For her work on grief and healing, she has been featured on Good Morning America and NPR, in Vogue and The Atlantic, among other outlets. Her new book Waiting For Dawn (out in April 2026) reflects on her experiences with chronic illness and grief, offering solace to folks living with all kinds of uncertainty. A longtime rabble-rouser of social healing and equity, Lee previously served as a deputy director in the Obama White House and is now CEO of Beacon Advisors, a social-impact consulting firm. She is a graduate of Harvard College and lives with her husband Matt and son, Bennett, in New York.Website: www.marisareneelee.comInstagram: @marisareneelee Substack: https://marisareneelee.substack.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marisareneelee LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marisareneelee/ The Book: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/marisa-renee-lee/waiting-for-dawn/9781538770191/ABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, narrative therapy trained social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips