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The Fan Engagement Pod
The Fans. Kat Law (Spurs), Fulham (Dan Crawford), Liverpool (Jay McKenna) (Part 2)
Kat Law (Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust), Dan Crawford (Fulham Supporters Trust), Jay McKenna (ex-Chair, Spirit of Shankly) talk about what Fan Engagement is like when you're face-to-face with the board and owners of a club.
Each one of these three know what it's like to maintain dialogue with their clubs over a number of years. In the case of Kat and Dan, both the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust and Fulham Supporters Trust have been meeting face-to-face with the boards of their football clubs for a number of years, and in many respects are in the gold-standard for the role a supporters' trust can play.
In more difficult times, Spirit of Shankly moved between close relationships and dialogue, and high-profile activism. It was when Jay McKenna was Chair of SOS that Liverpool fans had a #walkouton77 over a breakdown in dialogue over ticket price increases.
The insight here is something that every single Fan Engagement professional - clubs, leagues, consultants - should listen to. Part of the challenge for clubs sometimes is to understand their fans as activists, and why their passion leads them to be so committed as to want to become involved in this way.
Apologies for some of the poor sound quality at times.
Key Insights from Episode Three
- Activists like those involved in Supporters Trusts are usually motivated by a love and concern for the club; bear this in mind when criticism comes
- Supporters Trusts (and similar organisations) are representative of part of your stakeholders, and can bring great insight you might not be able to acquire easily otherwise
- Fans are very often professionally skilled, have insight that can be valuable to you: seek it out and use it
Episode Links:
- Fulham Supporters Trust: https://www.fulhamsupporterstrust.com/
- Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust: https://www.thstofficial.com/
- Spirit of Shankly: http://www.spiritofshankly.com/
- Don and Tom's interview with Ryan Sparks (Bradford City) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8jKty7LDXM
Dan Crawford Bio:
Dan Crawford is a freelance sports writer and local councillor in West London, and has been on the board of the Fulham Trust since May 2014. He and other FST directors meet with owners, directors and officials at the club on a monthly basis, underpinned by a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU).
Kat Law
Kat is a Business Manager for AAR, responsible for concept, creation, execution and delivery of all internal and external marketing, both on and offline. She has been on the board of the Spurs Trust since February 2013. The Trust meets several times a year board-to-board with Club Chair Daniel Levy, Executive Director Donna Cullen, and also other officials and staff.
Jay McKenna
Jay is acting Regional Secretary for the TUC North West. He was Chair of Spirit of Shankly until March 2019, and part of the founding group of the organisation.
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5. Rewind: Dan McGeachie (ex-Man City/Bradford City)
27:54||Season 2, Ep. 5January 2026 - This is the first ever episode of the pod, and the second most popular episode we've ever recorded. Dan is now at Eleven Sports Media running Global Partnerships Development. Find him on LinkedIn as Daniel McGeachie.Our guest in Episode One is Dan McGeachie, who most recently led the marketing for one of City Football Group’s new businesses within Manchester City FC (read Dan McGeachie’s full Bio below). These podcasts will bring you insights straight from the experts, and we’ll be publishing them on the second Tuesday of each month.We talk about Lad Bible and not getting caught up chasing trends, tackle that old cliche 'authenticity', and discuss how important it is to do things for fans that don't always appear on the engagement stats at the end of the week.Key Insights from Episode OneDon’t forget: Social Media is a fundamental tool of communications, not a ‘nice to have’Don’t get caught up chasing trends: Lad Bible isn’t your key demographic, your fans areBe true to your football club. Learn lessons from others, but don’t copy and pasteCreate a ‘Help’ channel for queries and enquiries by fans (see the Fan Engagement Index for more on this)Episode Links:#ProperBradford (Bradford (Park Avenue)): https://bpafc.com/2019-2020-bradford-park-avenue-season-tickets-are-now-on-sale/British Airways Twitter Account: twitter.com/british_airwaysDan McGeachie Full BioDan is a specialist in marketing and communications, and has experience in football from the grassroots to the top of the game, having worked for the West Riding County FA in their marketing team, to recently leading the marketing for one of City Football Group’s new businesses within Manchester City FC. He also had spells in The National League with Harrogate Town and at Bradford City. Whilst at Bradford City, Daniel was a member of the EFL’s Digital Working Group.He’s also an associate of Fan Insights, and helped us to develop our social media measurement for the Fan Engagement IndexAnd don’t forget you can join the Fan Engagement Network at faninsights.co.uk/networkTheme music: Future Stuff by Apoxode (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution
5. Rewind: State of Fan Engagement | How to establish an FAB/Shadow Board
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4. We discuss our groundbreaking new research paper
43:40||Season 2, Ep. 4Series 2 Episode 4 is all about our research paper, ‘Establishing Fan Engagement as a core value in the Football Industry during a New Era of Regulation’, with my colleagues Natasha Simms and Andrea Rossi.It’s a slightly longer episode than normal, so to help you navigate it these are the questions in the order we ask them:What makes the research distinct and what are the four pillars?What is the key pillar for every club to adopt?What are the overlaps between the research and the Fan Engagement Index?What are fan engagement challenges are for clubs in crisis?How to connect fan engagement with the separate but related areas of fan experience and community engagement.We ask how to close the gap between research and practiceAnd finally, we discuss what the best practice should be in the growing women’s game.We’ve provided a breakdown of the questions we ask in the episode description too.Enjoy the episode.Don’t forget you can download the full report via fanengagement.net Just click on the research tab at the top of the page and you’ll find it.Do like, subscribe and share.
3. Joined up thinking and growing gates with James Gibbins
34:28||Season 2, Ep. 3This episode is with James Gibbins, Experience & Engagement Director and part of the senior leadership team at Walsall Football Club.In it we talk about a wide range of subject, from personalisation to in-person engagement, structured fan engagement’s overlap with community engagement and their success in using this to grow their average attendances, and one of my go-to subjects: how good leadership enables staff, encourages their good instincts and helps develop good practice. We also touch on Think Fan Engagement’s upcoming research report on fan engagement which is out very, very soon, and we sing the praises of Huddersfield Town and Blackburn Rovers. Intrigued? Listen on.Go to fanengagement.net to signup for news about our plans. Like, share and subscribe, on all major podcast platforms and at fanengagement.net
2. Aaryaman Banerji, LCP: Fan Engagement Under the Regulator
27:37||Season 2, Ep. 2This week it’s Aarayaman Banerji, Head of Football Governance at LCP. In it we discuss what the impact of the Independent Regulator is likely to be on fan engagement, looking at:Overview of what the regulator is likely to focus onWhat could regulation look like in practiceMinimum standards across the pyramid – different clubs are in different starting positionsResources, leadership and cultureWe also give you a sneak preview of some of the content of our soon to be published research paper that was co-authored by Aaryaman before he took up his role at LCP, and which we’re publishing very soon.Don’t forget we’ve postponed our planned workshop, Life with Football Legislation; preparing for meaningful fan engagement & consultation on the 5th of November. Stay tuned for more on this in the near future. Go to fanengagement.net to signup for news about our plans. Like, share and subscribe, on all major podcast platforms and at fanengagement.net
1. Back to basics with Kevin Rye
36:14||Season 2, Ep. 1We’re returning the pod to a regular episode. From now on we’ll be publishing an episode once a month on various subjects. This week is a chat between me and my new colleague Natasha Simms, our new Fan Engagement and Communications Associate, who was appointed in the summer.In it we go ‘back to basics’, asking what is fan engagement, what some of the misconceptions are about it and how fan engagement has evolved since the first Fan Engagement Index in 2019. We also discuss some of the challenges for supporters’ trusts, and fan advisory boards in particular, and I give my view on what I think a newly appointed fan engagement officer at a football club should focus on in their first six months in the job.Don’t forget to book for Life with Football Legislation; preparing for meaningful fan engagement & consultation at the Wesley Hotel, Euston on the 5th of November. Go to fanengagement.net/events to read more and signup. We’ve got special ticket deals when you buy two together.Like, share and subscribe, on all major podcast platforms and at fanengagement.net We’re releasing the first of these today because we couldn’t wait, but from Series 2, Episode 2, it’ll be once a month on the first Monday.
81. Fan Engagement Index 2024 2025: the results!
07:46||Season 1, Ep. 81This year’s fan engagement index comes on the verge of the biggest shakeup in the way football is run in decades. The new independent regulator for football will for the first time see clubs regulated in part for their fan engagement. This is an important step, but not the only one. The fan engagement index has been running since the 2018/2019 season, and we’ve helped to drive standards in football ever since then, helping to define what good fan engagement looks like.This is also the second year we’ve run the fan engagement awards, where we award clubs with a gold, silver, bronze or merit award, depending on their score. This year we’ve seen an increase in the number receiving an award, as well as a double for one club. Who is it? Listen to find out!2024/2025 Fan Engagement Award Winners. The full table is at fanengagement.net/fan-engagement-indexSo congratulations to all those clubs who finished with an award. For those who didn’t, I know you’ll all be working hard to improve for next year. There are so many people who work hard for their clubs at all levels of fan engagement who don’t always get the recognition they deserve, and whether your club won an award or not, thank you for your hard work over the season. Now more than ever, with the era of the independent regulator approaching, clubs across the football pyramid need to do more to engage with their most important stakeholders – the fans. But regulation has never been the silver bullet, and change relies on everyone - clubs, leagues, governing bodies, the regulator, fans and their representatives - to play their part. We’ve seen countless improvements from clubs since we started seven years ago in this our seventh edition. The Fan Engagement Index has already massively impacted the activities and culture of football. I’ll leave the final word to two of the top clubs in fan engagement in the country, at different ends of the pyramid, first, Southend United, who said:"Being recognised in this way, particularly as the top National League club and the only National League winner of a fan engagement award, is proof that engagement works, even without the resources of bigger clubs. Regulation will bring welcome standards across the game, but regulation alone isn’t enough. Culture is what makes the difference and it’s what ensures engagement doesn’t stop when the cameras do.Or as Everton Chief Executive Angus Kinnear, says, “A club is strongest when it listens, involves and evolves alongside its supporters”I’d like to thank all those involved who helped with the index this year, including Lane Clarke and Peacock Sport Analytics and Advisory, who supported us by analysing overall trends over the past seven years, and also looking in particular at clubs which have excelled throughout or upped their game significantly over the period. Go to http://lcp.com/en/sports for more.And before I go, a quick plug for our Our next, Life with Football Legislation: Preparing for Meaningful Fan Engagement and Consultation. We’ll be announcing the date and venue very soon!Keep an ear out for the next edition of the fan engagement pod.Music: Swing PartyBeat MekanikAttribution 4.0 Internationalhttps://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0
80. Fan Engagement Pod Ep 80: Join us on May 14th in London!
05:29||Season 1, Ep. 80Join Everton FC, Lincoln City FC, Manchester United & Chelsea Supporters Trusts, plus Rhion Jones, Consultation Guru and Lane Clark and Peacock on the 14th May in London for Life with Football Legislation; Preparing for meaningful fan engagement and consultation. This event is tailored for football club executives, senior managers, supporters’ trusts, industry bodies or specialists, those in marketing and communications roles, sports policy-makers, or those specialising in public engagement programmes.Go to https://www.tickettailor.com/events/thinkfanengagement/1650506 to book or use the QR code in the episode.Thanks to LCP for their Event Sponsorship and also to Tractivity for their Lead Sponsorship. Links below.Tractivity: https://www.tractivity.co.ukLCP: https://www.lcp.comEverton: https://www.evertonfc.com/fansLincoln City: https://www.weareimps.com/fansCST: https://chelseasupporterstrust.comMUST: https://www.imust.org.ukRhion Jones, Consultation Guru: https://consultationguru.co.uk
79. Rhion Jones: Consultation & the Independent Regulator for Football
46:08||Season 1, Ep. 79This episode is the first of what I hope will be several with the UK’s expert on consultation, Rhion Jones. Known professionally as the Consultation Guru, we’ve been collaborating for some months now as the Football Governance Bill makes its way through parliament, paying specific interest to the provisions on consultation and engagement. You can read the letter we wrote to the minister in charge of the bill in the Lords, Baroness Twycross, and the reply she sent, on https://fanengagement.netThe Gunning Principles1. Proposals are still at a formative stage: A final decision has not yet been made, or predetermined, by the decision makers2. There is sufficient information to give ‘intelligent consideration’: The information provided must relate to the consultation and must be available, accessible, and easily interpretable for consultees to provide an informed response3. There is adequate time for consideration and response: There must be sufficient opportunity for consultees to participate in the consultation. There is no set timeframefor consultation, despite the widely accepted twelve-week consultation period, as the length of time given for consultee to respond can vary depending on the subject and extent of impact of the consultation4. ‘Conscientious consideration’ must be given to the consultation responses before a decision is made: Decision-makers should be able to provide evidence that they took consultation responses into accountRead more at consultationguru.co.ukWe discuss how consultation works, why it’s different to engagement, and why its impact on football could be very positive. If you want to get in touch, ask a question or suggest a topic or guest, or register your interest in the event myself and Rhion will be hosting in late Feb/early March 2025, drop me a line at hello@fanengagement.net Episode links available in the podcast description. Subscribe to the View on Fan Engagement via https://fanengagement.net/joinPlease like, subscribe and share. It really does help our visibility.