Debunking Economics - the podcast

Phil and Steve Keen discuss Steve’s recent experience at the World Forum in Berlin, which he frames as a progressive "antidote" to the World Economic Forum. Their conversation touches on a wide range of global issues, including the conflicted leadership in the Palestinian Authority and Israel, the necessity of a two-state solution in Gaza, and the controversial role of figures like Hillary Clinton and Bob Geldof. A significant portion of the dialogue focuses on Steve’s proposal to expand the legal definition of ecocide to include criminal negligence, arguing that economists and corporations should face personal liability for their role in climate change. Phil remains sceptical of the practical enforceability of such laws given the entrenched interests of powerful nations, but both agree that current international agreements like COP are largely ineffective, serving more as a venue for fossil fuel lobbying than real environmental progress.

This week Phil and Steve dissect Elon Musk’s futuristic vision of a moneyless society driven by AI and ubiquitous robotics. Drawing parallels to Marxist ideals and ancient "slave" societies (reimagined with robots), they explore the logistical impossibilities of such a world—from the staggering mineral requirements for billions of droids to the complex social dynamics of status and resource allocation in the absence of a pricing mechanism. Ultimately, they argue that while our current monetary system is flawed, the move toward a post-scarcity world requires a "better" multi-dimensional currency rather than the complete abolition of money, which serves as a vital tool for managing scarcity and human competition.

In this episode we ask whether monetary policy actually works, as the RBA lifts rates to 3.85%—well above other advanced economies—despite inflation being driven by capacity constraints rather than excess demand. We explore why higher rates may worsen the problem by choking investment and productivity, why the quantity‑of‑money story doesn’t hold when spending velocity rises, and how fiscal tools could target inflation far more precisely. Steve argues that Australia’s deeper issue is its housing‑debt machine: high house prices, bank‑driven mortgage lending, and a credit‑fuelled economy that rate hikes can’t fix and may even reinforce.

Phil Dobbie talks to Prof Steve Keen about the one modern economy that actually let its banks fail — Iceland — and what the rest of the world should have learned from it. They unpack how a tiny country ended up with banks eleven times the size of its GDP, fuelled by high interest rates, foreign borrowing, and a carry‑trade frenzy that made Iceland look less like a nation and more like a hedge fund with a flag. When the krona collapsed, imports doubled in price, inflation exploded, and the banking system imploded — yet Iceland refused to socialise the losses, letting foreign creditors take the hit while rebuilding with new domestic banks, capital controls, and a currency so cheap it sparked a tourism boom. Phil and Steve contrast that with Ireland, Greece, and Cyprus, where governments guaranteed bank debts, couldn’t devalue, and ended up trapped in austerity. The episode asks the big question: what’s the real lesson from Iceland’s crash — and why did so few countries follow it?

This week Phil and Steve explore who would be hit hardest by a full‑blown US–EU trade war, and how the escalating Greenland dispute exposes Europe’s dependence on American defence and technology. They examine whether Europe could credibly build its own security architecture — from a eurozone‑funded army to a rapidly expanding domestic arms industry — and how tariff retaliation, energy costs, and the dominance of US big tech complicate the picture. With studies suggesting EU exports to the US could halve under 25% tariffs, and with Europe still buying billions in American weaponry each year, the discussion asks whether a strategic reset is inevitable, and what it would take for Europe to stand on its own economically, militarily, and digitally.

In this episode of Debunking Economics, Phil Dobbie and Professor Steve Keen dive into the thorny world of “sovereign money” and “100% money” — two reform proposals that aim to radically reshape how modern banking works. Prompted by a listener email, the conversation unpacks why today’s system of bank‑created money, reserves, and government deficits is so convoluted, and whether a simpler, more transparent architecture is even possible. Phil sketches the appeal of a world where everyone holds an account directly at the central bank, bypassing the private banking system for everyday payments, while Steve explores what such a shift would mean for money creation, government spending, and the role of commercial banks.As the discussion deepens, they examine the historical roots of these ideas, from Irving Fisher’s 1930s push for 100% reserve banking to modern proposals emerging from Switzerland and Germany. Steve highlights the technical and political challenges: how to separate the payment system from the credit system, whether banks could remain profitable without the ability to create money, and why double‑entry bookkeeping is essential to understanding any reform. Phil presses on the potential benefits — stability, simplicity, and a more direct way for governments to manage the money supply — while Steve warns that poorly designed reforms could unintentionally collapse the very financial system they aim to fix.The result is a lively, accessible exploration of one of the most misunderstood corners of economics. Whether you’re curious about sovereign money, sceptical of private bank power, or simply trying to make sense of how money actually moves around the economy, this episode offers a clear and provocative guide through the debate