Debunking Economics - the podcast

Phil and Steve take aim at the so-called Nobel Prize in Economics and the assumptions behind the models influencing central-bank policy. They discuss why Steve believes mainstream economics underplays the role of banks, private debt and financial crises—and why models built around equilibrium and external shocks can struggle to explain events like the Great Depression and the global financial crisis. Along the way, they challenge the idea that economies naturally return to stability, examine the limits of interest-rate policy, and explore the history and influence of the economics prize. A lively, sharp-edged conversation about what economic models leave out—and what that means for understanding inflation, unemployment and financial instability. And why the Novel prize for economics isn't the same as other Nobel prizes.

Fear and greed don’t affect everyone equally. In this episode, Phil Dobbie and Steve Keen explore how debt, financial bubbles, and economic policy can reward those at the top while leaving workers, renters, and households to carry more of the risk. From market crashes and speculative booms to the growing role of private debt, they unpack why inequality persists—and why fear has become an everyday reality for so many.

Phil and Steve unpack the case for a renewed relationship with Europe, from trade and supply chains to freedom of movement and political sovereignty. They debate whether the euro still makes sense in an era of low-cost digital payments, why a shared currency can leave national economies exposed, and what European cooperation should actually look like.Along the way, they explore the legacy of Brexit, the future of the EU as a trading bloc, and whether Europe’s strength lies in deeper integration or greater flexibility.

Bond yields are not “warning” governments to behave—they’re exposing a system where central banks and treasuries can backstop the entire market whenever they choose. Steve says the panic around government debt is mostly an economic fairy tale, and the real danger is what happens when policymakers let that fiction dictate spending.Phil presses him on the recent surge in 10-year and 30-year yields, the role of bond vigilantes, and the idea that higher rates are supposedly needed to fight inflation. Keen argues the opposite: bond sales often cancel out government money creation, while fear of the bond market can choke off the spending needed for jobs, infrastructure, and real growth.

Equilibrium is a fantasy—and this conversation explains why. Phil and teve explore how the belief that markets naturally self-correct has shaped economic policy, contributed to the failure to anticipate the Global Financial Crisis, and continues to distort debates about bond yields, government intervention, debt, and inflation. From Irving Fisher’s original models to today’s financial markets, AI bubbles, and rising government bond yields, Keen shows why capitalism is better understood as an “always moving equilibrium” than as a system that ever truly settles. The discussion also looks ahead to his forthcoming book, How Economists Will Destroy Capitalism, and the urgent consequences of treating elegant economic theories as if they describe the real world.

Paul Keating is often sold as the man who modernized Australia - but what if the reforms that made him legendary also helped create the financialized, boom-and-bust economy we live with today? Steve argues the real story is far more unsettling. From the "recession we had to have" to the housing bubble, tariff cuts, bank deregulation, and the superannuation system, he breaks down how Keating's policies reshaped Australia in ways most people still misunderstand. If you think Keating was simply a brilliant reformer, this conversation will challenge that view. Keating was an extraordinary parliamentary orator but a dangerous believer in textbook economics. Discover how the 1987 crash and first home buyers grant helped set up the 1992 recession, and why the push toward finance over manufacturing left Australia weaker, not stronger. He also explains how Keating’s attacks on the GST, the rise of neoliberal thinking inside Labor, and the long fallout from deindustrialization still shape Australian politics today.