Are We There Yet?

I recorded this episode with my eldest sister Kate last spring but it took some time to edit and release it. Listening to Kate talk about the loss of our mother highlighted for me how completely different our experiences were, largely due to our seven-year age difference but also our attitudes and views on grief, and because she moved to New Zealand and I moved to California when we were both fairly young. Because of these differences and distances, my sister Kate and I have had very few discussions about losing our mother, so this conversation brought up a lot of old feelings. I have a particular idea of grief, which entails processing various feelings over time and eventually forging or cultivating a relationship with the person who died, either through memories, a spiritual connection, or both. But there are certainly many other ways that people view and experience grief that are less about feelings and making conscious decisions about it. It's always good for me to expand my views of how people think about their grief, and this episode did that. I particularly appreciated Kate's perspective on mourning, having lived in New Zealand for most of her life.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Claudia and Olivia Biggs lived through a very difficult and at times hellish period when their mother suddenly became seriously mentally ill. They were in middle and high school when it happened so their father John was caring for all three of them for several years. (I interviewed John Biggs earlier in the season and I recommend listening to his episode too because he tells a more chronological story of what happened over that period.) Their Dad was upset and overtaxed and struggled to support the kids emotionally while dealing with the pressure of all his responsibilities.I find it really informative to hear the kids' perspective as well as the parent's and hear how different their experiences and memories are of the situation they all lived through. The grief of losing a family member to illness is a common theme on this show, but this episode really illustrates the trauma of losing a parent to illness and then death, because their mother was not able to parent them at all while she was ill. Mental illness adds another level of difficulty because the American medical system is much less well-funded when it comes to caring for people with serious mental illness and is so stigmatized that the community of family and friends tends to pull away rather than step up. I found this conversation deeply impactful and truly expanded my ideas about trauma and loss in young people. Like my own family, the Biggs are a family of artists and it was fascinating to hear how their creative work was part of the story.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

In this episode, I speak with the wonderful Ari Jalomo, a student at Kenyan College currently studying abroad in Spain. Ari and I met at Comfort Zone Camp this past summer, where she was participating in the young adults group and I was volunteering as the group's "mentor." I was so impressed by Ari, as a great example of someone who has clearly benefited from going to CZC over many years and having the opportunity to talk about her loss multiple times. Ari's father died by homicide when she was seven years old, and even at a young age Ari advocated for herself and requested a camp "Big Buddy" who had experienced a similar loss. She is very clear about how she was able to process the loss of her father over many years, as she was growing up, and how it developed and changed. Ari is incredibly articulate about the resources she was given as a child, the adults who supported her, and aware of where she is in the long arc of childhood grief. I love talking to someone who understands her grief from living it and examining it over many years. As a parent, I know I would be very encouraged to have a child who is as comfortable talking about their grief as Ari.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Doneila McIntosh, M.Div., M.A. is a researcher getting her PhD in Family Social Science from the University of Minnesota. Her work as a therapist focuses on compassionate grief therapy, helping families navigate the intersection of grief and trauma. Her research is focused on disenfranchised grief among African American families particularly in the aftermath of violent death.It was amazing to talk to someone so knowledgeable about the disproportionate amount of death and loss in Black communities and studies the effects of that on families. Doneila works with families and prefers to think about grief in the context of the family system, rather than looking at each individual. We talked a lot about the difference between childhood and adult grief and how the grief of Black American families is largely disenfranchised, meaning it is often dismissed without being attended to or acknowledged. This is often true of childhood grief so Black children and teens are twice ignored by society and their expressions of grief are often policed and controlled. Because of the prevalence of Black death, Black children are four times more likely to have a major loss in childhood, and many experience multiple losses which can lead to desensitization and disassociation. We talked about the particular challenges that Black children face when it comes to grief and trauma and how adults in their communities can best support them.We talk about Doneila's appearance on another podcast, "Grief Out Loud," which you can listen to here. This is a great resource about the importance of literacy around the magnitude of Black death and grief.We also spoke about two books: In the Wake: On Blackness and Being by Christina Sharpe and Passed On by Karla FC HollowayIf you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Gina Troisi's Memoir The Angle of Flickering Light is a beautiful account of her confusing and often scary childhood through the eyes of her younger self. I was immediately drawn in by this book and Gina's ability to write so precisely from the perspective of a child about the complexity of her father's and stepmother's emotional abuse, which led to her having eating disorders at a young age, doing too many drugs, and other self-destructive habits.What surprised me most about Gina's story was how much I related to it even though our childhoods were radically different. Gina did not have a loss due to death but her parent's divorce and her father's abusive behavior resulted in her having symptoms of PTSD at a young age and receiving very little support. We ended up talking a lot about writing about trauma, but also the way parents in the '70s and '80s expected kids to magically get along in blended families. Without much support, kids were (and still are) often expected to negotiate complex relationships with step-parents and stepsiblings at a young age.I highly recommend Gina's book which you can find on her website.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Hailey is another amazing young adult who I met through Comfort Zone Camp. Hailey has been through a lot of turmoil in her life and she is just an amazing example of resiliency and learning to cope with the fallout of the losses she has experienced. While Hailey was in high school, two of her siblings died within the span of two years. Life at home was hard and her main sources of support were her best friend and a school psychologist who inspired her to become a school counselor.Hailey's brother Dillon died by suicide when Hailey was a freshman and he was a senior at the same high school. The school's policies made it harder for her in the aftermath of her brother's death because they didn't want to "glorify" his death and forbid anyone, including teachers, from talking about it. Hailey points out that this policy only magnified the stigma around suicide and encouraged a lot of misinformation and gossip which was hurtful to her and her family. When her brother Sean died of an accidental overdose two years later, Hailey was a senior and Sean was in his twenties so she didn't tell anyone, wanting to avoid the same kind of gossip that the school engaged in previously. Both situations resulted in exacerbating the isolation and alienation that Hailey was already feeling in the wake of her brothers' deaths.Hailey also talks about how she coped growing up in a household with substance abuse and how those coping mechanisms that helped her survive in childhood, were not healthy for her as she grew up. It took a lot of work for her to unlearn her mind's reflex to disassociate but when she did, her other trauma symptoms of flashbacks and nightmares improved. Hailey shares how she deals with her symptoms and the strategies she has learned to take care of herself and enjoy life.At the beginning, I mentioned Comfort Zone Camp which I highly recommend for anyone who has dealt with the loss of a parent or other important family member early in life. They have free, weekend-long camps for kids, teens, and young adults. And if you are older and curious about the camp, I recommend looking into volunteering. I have done it three times now and will continue as long as possible.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

In this episode, we delve deep into the research and practical experience of Dr. Julie Kaplow, PhD, ABPP, a leading psychologist in the field of childhood grief and trauma. It is always gratifying to learn that the research aligns with what I've learned by interviewing people who lost a family member at a young age. Early in her career, she began to differentiate between grief and trauma while also recognizing the ways they overlap, particularly in children. She shares why it's important to understand the difference between PTSD symptoms and grief responses in kids and how she treats them differently. We talked about the important role parents play in the aftermath of a death, as well as the importance of other community members, including teachers, friends, and relatives, to understand the peculiarities of childhood grief. All of this aligns perfectly with the purpose of this show: To help everyone understand what grieving kids need, and the long-term effects of early loss.If you'd like to learn more about Dr. Kaplow you can find more information here.I mentioned Comfort Zone Camp which I highly recommend for anyone who has dealt with the loss of a parent or other important family member early in life. They have free, weekend-long camps for kids, teens, and young adults. And if you are older and curious about the camp, I recommend looking into volunteering. I have done it twice and will continue as long as possible because I find volunteering so beneficial.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Nora Martinez lost her father Ken to gastrointestinal (GIST) cancer almost twenty years ago when she was just five years old. As someone who has benefited from having support for her grief throughout her childhood and adolescence, Nora provides a fascinating window into childhood grief through her ability to reflect on it with clarity and perspective. I have encountered many people my age who lost a parent or other close family member in childhood who did not get much support and still struggle to talk about the loss or even admit that it has affected their lives.I love talking to younger people who have grown up in a culture and family that is more open to talking about grief and getting mental health support. Nora started attending Comfort Zone Camp at age nine and credits her ongoing relationship with CZC and the people she met there with her ability to be the loving and compassionate person she has become. I loved her description of her grief as a kind of "golden armor" that gives her strength but also allows her to respond with empathy and wisdom.We spoke about Comfort Zone Camp which I can't recommend more highly for anyone who has dealt with the loss of a parent or other important family member early in their life. They have free, weekend-long camps for kids, teens, and young adults. And if you are older and curious about the camp, I recommend looking into volunteering. I have done it twice and will continue to do it as long as I can because volunteering is just as beneficial as being a camper.We also talked about the book, Abuela, Don't Forget Me by Rex Ogle.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

It was an honor to interview Edwidge Danticat, one of my favorite writers on death, dying, and grief about her early losses and what she is trying to achieve in her work. We spoke about her new book "We're Alone," a collection of essays about her life as a writer straddling her life as a Haitian immigrant with strong ties to her home country. I also asked about some of her earliest books ("Breath, Eyes, Memory," "Brother, I'm Dying," and "Krik? Krak!") because she has written so beautifully about death and loss, both through the eyes of a child but also throughout adulthood. Having been separated from her parents for eight years at the age of four, she has written extensively about the particular experience of loss due to displacement and how that early loss echoes through her later losses of her parents. We discussed the contrast between the ever-changing mourning rituals in Haiti and in the U.S., and how the younger generations are adapting traditional practices to suit their needs. We also talked about Christina Sharpe's amazing book "In the Wake: On Blackness and Being" and how she and Danticat have both tried to address the magnitude of Black grief in their work.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."