Are We There Yet?

I'm so pleased to be able to share this deeply moving interview with Erin O'Toole-Delawari, a teacher and mother of four who lost her home in January when the Eaton Fire tore through her neighborhood. Erin is so thoughtful in her explanation of what happened to her and her family, their trauma responses, and her understanding of those responses now. It's an incredible story of what happens in a natural disaster and how Erin, as a mother and a teacher, carried the responsibility of caring for children and pets in a moment of having no control over what's happening. She talks about going back in the morning while Altadena was still burning, and how they could feel the heat from inside their car, and what it was like to see their home as it smoldered after it burned down. We often hear the word "indescribable" when people talk about grief, but Erin does an amazing job of telling this story in a way that makes me feel I was there. I was also deeply moved by how Erin talked to her students, all of whom were traumatized, about what they all went through.Listening to Erin was very healing for me, as someone who lives close to Altadena and has felt a lot of that communal grief in the months since the fires. I felt validated by the way she described what she did as they were evacuating. It gives me some insight into my planning around such terrible events. If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

This week's episode is an interview with my brother and sister-in-law, Jen and Ted Muller, who lived through the 2018 Camp Fire, the deadliest and most destructive fire in California history. Ted was working in Paradise, CA, as an ER doctor when the fire broke out, and he narrowly escaped. Meanwhile, Jen was an hour and a half away, knowing Ted was in danger, but with no way to contact him. I wanted to ask them about this harrowing experience and how they explained it to their three kids, who were still pretty young. Jen and Ted returned to Paradise to help the community in the aftermath of the fire and saw firsthand the beauty of a community coming together in the face of a horrible disaster. I loved hearing them talk about how they found support and when they needed it, and were able to support others once the fires were out.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Welcome to Season Three, a shorter season devoted to exploring how families and kids respond to the grief associated with fire losses. Laurel Braitman is the best-selling author of Animal Madness and What Looks Like Bravery, the latter of which is a memoir about losing her father when she was a teen, then her family home in a fire when she was an adult, and soon after that, her mother to cancer. Laurel knows a lot about adolescent grief and fire loss, so I knew she'd be a great guest to kick off this season devoted to the recent wildfires in Los Angeles. Laurel shares deeply about the loss of her father and how her coping mechanisms of striving for excellence in all things didn't end up serving her very well as she matured. Losing the family ranch in a wildfire brought some things into focus, and she was able to support her mother at the end of her mother's life. I learned a lot from this conversation about how such different types of losses were inextricably linked in Laurel's life. Being a writer, she's articulate and insightful about the various strands of grief and how they've become part of her story.To hear another interview with Laurel about fire loss, I recommend her interview on rebuilding after fire with Slate's, "How To" podcast.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

I recorded this episode with Benji Gabler in October 2024 which seems like a lifetime ago. I had planned to publish it in January and then the fires happened and I shifted gears to try to address the losses of my community. But once I finished season 2 I still wanted to publish this episode with Benji, which is a beautiful conversation about fatherhood as it relates to early loss, something I haven't had an opportunity to address before. Benji lives in Isreal which added another layer of interest for me as I have always admired Jewish traditions around death and mourning. Being a therapist, Benji brought a lot of self-awareness and depth to this conversation and our views on parenting and grief were remarkably in sync. I loved how Benji was able to hold a lot of sadness along with gratitude for the loss of his father when he was just six years old and the way he was supported by his community growing up.If you'd like to learn more about Benji please visit his website https://www.bsgpsychotherapy.com I will be taking a break from the podcast while I work on a mini-season devoted to fire loss and its effects on families and kids. If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

For this last episode, I spoke with AJ Johnson about the early loss of her mother when she was 16, as well as how she's navigating the collective grief we're all experiencing here in LA. AJ is a hilarious person, and I was giggling throughout the interview despite the heaviness of this moment in our city. I met AJ at Comfort Zone Camp, so we talked about camp and the tools it has given her to manage her grief from adolescence into adulthood and how she's using those tools now. I especially love how she talks about asking for what you need, which is something I've been learning ever since the wildfires overwhelmed LA a few weeks ago. But AJ had many other anecdotes to share about what she's learned about her grief and how to ask for what she needs.I apologize for the lack of editing on this last episode as my editing platform just stopped working for some unknown reason. So, this is an unedited recording of an awesome conversation. I don't think there is too much I would have taken out other than annoying background sounds, but I would have done that if I could.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Because I live very close to Altadena in Los Angeles and because of the fires that raged through here two weeks ago, I decided to pivot and record an episode with two people I love about how they're doing after losing their home in the Eaton Fire. This is all very fresh for them (and for me) and I only had a day to edit so the episode is longer and more raw than usual. But it is already one of the most powerful episodes I've done because my guests were so great, so honest, and real, and it's such new territory for all of us. I'm just beginning to grasp the magnitude of the collective grief surrounding me.Bella and Cataline Bilandzija grew up in Altadena and lived in a lovely home that was constantly changing. They were used to their parents, Jessica and Daryl, always renovating and doing the work themselves. Even the gardens were continually shifting and evolving to meet their desires. But no one was ready for it all to disappear in an enormous fire that took out entire blocks of houses and businesses, leaving the wonderful area called Altadena forever changed. Bella and Catalina were both away at their respective colleges having just returned to school after winter break when the fires happened. I was curious how they were processing the loss of their beloved childhood home from afar. Death is often hard to conceive of, and what I've learned is that losing a home is very much like a death loss. Homes become a part of us, like members of the family, and fires take all the belongings that help us feel comfortable in a new home. It is an enormous loss that will likely stay with Bella and Catalina for the rest of their lives.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

This episode with Steve Pomerantz dives into why volunteering at Comfort Zone Camp is so rewarding. When I met Steve at CZC, he struck me as a bright light I wanted to get to know better. Steve brings so much energy and enthusiasm to camp that he epitomizes the joy and fun we have at CZC and why kids get so much out of it. Because Steve has volunteered at CZC for so many years, he has seen a broad range of grieving kids and was able to share his insights on the differences between different ages and how kids who return year after year continue to benefit from the experience. Steve also owns a funeral home called Gentle Water specializing in water cremation, which I had never heard of before. So if you're curious about Comfort Zone, volunteering, or environmentally friendly options for cremation and burial, you won't want to miss this episode.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

I recorded this episode with my eldest sister Kate last spring but it took some time to edit and release it. Listening to Kate talk about the loss of our mother highlighted for me how completely different our experiences were, largely due to our seven-year age difference but also our attitudes and views on grief, and because she moved to New Zealand and I moved to California when we were both fairly young. Because of these differences and distances, my sister Kate and I have had very few discussions about losing our mother, so this conversation brought up a lot of old feelings. I have a particular idea of grief, which entails processing various feelings over time and eventually forging or cultivating a relationship with the person who died, either through memories, a spiritual connection, or both. But there are certainly many other ways that people view and experience grief that are less about feelings and making conscious decisions about it. It's always good for me to expand my views of how people think about their grief, and this episode did that. I particularly appreciated Kate's perspective on mourning, having lived in New Zealand for most of her life.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Claudia and Olivia Biggs lived through a very difficult and at times hellish period when their mother suddenly became seriously mentally ill. They were in middle and high school when it happened so their father John was caring for all three of them for several years. (I interviewed John Biggs earlier in the season and I recommend listening to his episode too because he tells a more chronological story of what happened over that period.) Their Dad was upset and overtaxed and struggled to support the kids emotionally while dealing with the pressure of all his responsibilities.I find it really informative to hear the kids' perspective as well as the parent's and hear how different their experiences and memories are of the situation they all lived through. The grief of losing a family member to illness is a common theme on this show, but this episode really illustrates the trauma of losing a parent to illness and then death, because their mother was not able to parent them at all while she was ill. Mental illness adds another level of difficulty because the American medical system is much less well-funded when it comes to caring for people with serious mental illness and is so stigmatized that the community of family and friends tends to pull away rather than step up. I found this conversation deeply impactful and truly expanded my ideas about trauma and loss in young people. Like my own family, the Biggs are a family of artists and it was fascinating to hear how their creative work was part of the story.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack to receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."