Share

cover art for Grief Is A Learning Process

Are We There Yet?

Grief Is A Learning Process

Season 1, Ep. 27

This week I speak with Elise Gaul, a therapist specializing in grief and loss who works in multiple modalities including EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitizing and Reprocessing) therapy. Elise explains why EMDR works well to address "covert grief," a term she coined for the parts of childhood grief that can profoundly affect a person's life, often without their awareness. Her stints as the executive director of a grief center called Peter's Place and the director of Camp Erin, a bereavement camp for children led us to talk about what parents and caregivers can do to minimize the long-term negative effects of grief on kids. I loved Elise's attitude about grief as a learning process and her curiosity and interest in working with adults to try to unlock some of the negative beliefs that childhood grief can create.


To learn more about Elise and her work please visit her website


To read Elise's fascinating article on Covert Grief that led me to invite her on the show read this blog post


To learn more about EMDR visit APA or EMDRIA


Please take a moment to rate and review the show or leave comments on my Substack "I'm Listening."


Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the intro and outro music from her album "We Fall."

More episodes

View all episodes

  • 38. Hospice Nurse Tim Tattu

    43:25
    Tim Tattu left a creative career in film production to become a hospice nurse after studying Zen meditation with an instructor who asked him to help set up a place to care for people who are dying in Washington State called Enso House. His whole life story is fascinating and I loved talking with him about grief and dying and his own childhood losses. Tim brings so much presence, wisdom, and compassion to this deep discussion about grief and how it affects us early in life and as we grow older. The most powerful thing he had to share was the idea of staying present to the mystery of death at the end of life and how that can help us be more present in our experiences of death and grief.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."
  • 37. John Biggs On Losing His Wife To Mental Illness

    52:08
    In this episode, John Biggs takes us through the heartbreaking odyssey of losing his wife Samantha to a sudden mental breakdown. Seemingly overnight, Samantha went from being an incredible mother and artist to someone who could no longer function when their kids were just 12 and 14. John is a very entertaining storyteller so we laughed even more than we cried as he recounted the years when he had to become a full-time dad, caretaker, and breadwinner as Samantha was in and out of institutions. John's honesty, vulnerability, and openness as he described the most challenging moments of his ordeal is deeply moving. Samantha eventually died of her illness in 2022 so his kids are now in their early twenties and beginning to process the trauma of losing their mother to mental illness and then death. John's appreciation of his kids' grief and his instincts to protect them from the hurtful comments of others is a truly inspiring story of a man beautifully parenting his kids through the worst circumstances.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."
  • 36. Mackenzie Mazen (age 25)

    47:47
    In this episode, I speak to the amazing Mackenzie Mazen about being a little buddy and then a big buddy at comfort zone camp after her father died by suicide when she was ten. Once again, I was so impressed by another GenZer who is open to sharing her experience of grief. Mackenzie is very light-hearted and loves to joke and laugh about her childhood trauma which made our conversation fun and engaging. She shared about all the grief support she had growing up and how she continues to engage and participate in multiple grief spaces while pursuing her work in the non-profit sphere. Even though the topic of our discussion is heavy, Mackenzie brings a lightness to everything she does without shying away from the horrors of her father's death.We talked about The Dinner Party, Comfort Zone Camp, and Amazen CookiesIf you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."
  • 35. Dan Koeppel On Choosing (Quality Of) Life

    48:48
    In this episode, I talk to journalist and author Dan Keoppel about how he centered his role as a father when choosing his treatment for bladder cancer. As a science reporter, he approached his diagnosis with curiosity and extensive research to figure out how to manage his cancer while being the Dad he wanted to be. Dan is so knowledgeable about his disease that he has been able to make the most informed decisions possible regarding his treatment. But his goal is not to "beat" cancer. Instead, Dan's aim is to live as well as possible alongside his disease so that he can enjoy the life he has. This is a deeply moving conversation with someone who looks at death squarely while exercising his curiosity and sense of humor, which is a wonderful way to live.To find out more about Dan, click here.To read the piece that made me want to talk to him, click here.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."
  • 34. Staying Connected With Evin Rose Terranova

    43:34
    I had so much fun interviewing Evin Rose Terranova who I met volunteering at Comfort Zone Camp earlier this year. She has been volunteering at the grief camp for kids for several years and has learned a lot from supporting grieving kids. Evin was just eight years old when her father died by suicide and she was lucky enough to have an amazing mother who supported her beautifully with therapy and grief support. But even under those circumstances, grieving the loss of her Dad has been a long journey that challenged her sense of who she was and what she wanted from life. This search landed her in a beautiful career as a self-love and relationship coach. It is clear from listening to Evin that she understands the importance of community and connection when it comes to healing our deepest wounds. What a gift she is to the world and I am so glad to be able to call her my new friend.You can find Evin on Instagram @EvinRose or her website EvinRoseCoaching.comIf you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."
  • 33. Rethinking Resilience With Dr. Lucy Hone

    51:25
    In this deeply moving episode which is also packed with useful information, Dr. Lucy Hone shares her unique perspective, expertise, and personal knowledge of resilience. Resilience is a tricky word because it sometimes gets used inappropriately with kids as a way to discount their experience. We've all heard the phrase "kids are resilient" which is often true but is not an excuse to assume they don't need support to recover from a trauma and/or loss. As Dr. Hone explains, kids do better with the right support at home, but can also learn to strengthen their resilience given the tools she writes about in her book "Resilient Grieving." Having lived through the devastating earthquakes in New Zealand in 2011 and then losing her young daughter and two friends in a car accident in 2014, Dr. Hone has direct experience testing the theories of resilience she has focused on throughout her career.For more information on Dr. Hone click above or here. And to find her book "Resilient Grieving" you can go anywhere you order books or find it here.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."
  • 32. Siblings Sarah And Ben Satzman

    45:55
    Sarah and Ben Satzman are both in their early twenties and were very close to their grandfather Joel Satzman when he died unexpectedly last year. They were able to be with him at the very end of his life and that experience had a huge impact on them. You can hear in their stories about him how much they adored their grandfather and the unique role he played in their lives. He was a great support and strong presence, calling often and showing up to important events throughout their childhoods and they both depended on his special brand of attention. I loved hearing the differences and the similarities between Ben and Sarah's experiences, and it was beautiful to hear how well they supported each other when he died. In the year since that day, Ben and Sarah have both learned a lot about themselves and their grief. Young adults are often my favorite guests and my best teachers, and Sarah and Ben taught me a lot about how family can sometimes be the best support system after a loss.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."
  • 31. Artist Terry Chatkupt

    38:29
    Terry Chatkupt is a visual artist whose current show at the Armory Center for the Arts in Pasadena, California is about the 2020 lockdown and its effect on his family. This podcast was started, in part, to address some of the reporting on adolescent mental health in the aftermath of the pandemic that was sorely lacking. Stories in mainstream media missed an opportunity to interview young people and instead turned to experts who had little knowledge of childhood grief. So I was excited to do an episode addressing the pandemic from the perspective of one man investigating how it affected his own family while trying to convey his appreciation the privilege of having a safe place to live. Terry is also a teacher, so we talked about what we have observed in our students as well as our families and what it may mean for an entire generation to have missed some crucial parts of their social and emotional development as a result of the isolation we all endured for a time.https://www.terrychatkupt.com/If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."
  • 30. Author Sara Zarr on Grief for Young Readers

    44:35
    Acclaimed author Sara Zarr has published ten novels for young readers, as well as two books of non-fiction about creativity. She’s a National Book Award finalist and two-time Utah Book Award winner. Her first book, Story of a Girl, was made into a 2017 television movie directed by Kyra Sedgwick. She also hosts the podcast "This Creative Life," all of which you can find on her website below. I'm a huge fan of Sara's books because she writes about many different forms of loss and does it beautifully, realistically, and honestly without glossing over her characters' struggles. Her latest book, "Kyra, Just for Today" is a follow-up to her previous book, "A Song Called Home," both of which feature young characters living in alcoholic family systems. I love Sara's writing because she takes on kids' hardships while showing us how her characters learn and grow from them. We talked about why she writes about dysfunctional families and the toughest aspects of growing up and why she often gives her characters creative outlets. I appreciate Sara's thoughtful approach to addressing the economic realities of the worlds she creates, and her sharing her motivation and approach to writing about grief from a young person's perspective.To find out more about Sara:https://www.sarazarr.com/booksIf you enjoy the show please rate and review! You can also find me here @annbfaison on Instagram, or contact me through my website.Please subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you use, or on my substack: I'm ListeningSpecial thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."