Are We There Yet?

Doneila McIntosh, M.Div., M.A. is a researcher getting her PhD in Family Social Science from the University of Minnesota. Her work as a therapist focuses on compassionate grief therapy, helping families navigate the intersection of grief and trauma. Her research is focused on disenfranchised grief among African American families particularly in the aftermath of violent death.It was amazing to talk to someone so knowledgeable about the disproportionate amount of death and loss in Black communities and studies the effects of that on families. Doneila works with families and prefers to think about grief in the context of the family system, rather than looking at each individual. We talked a lot about the difference between childhood and adult grief and how the grief of Black American families is largely disenfranchised, meaning it is often dismissed without being attended to or acknowledged. This is often true of childhood grief so Black children and teens are twice ignored by society and their expressions of grief are often policed and controlled. Because of the prevalence of Black death, Black children are four times more likely to have a major loss in childhood, and many experience multiple losses which can lead to desensitization and disassociation. We talked about the particular challenges that Black children face when it comes to grief and trauma and how adults in their communities can best support them.We talk about Doneila's appearance on another podcast, "Grief Out Loud," which you can listen to here. This is a great resource about the importance of literacy around the magnitude of Black death and grief.We also spoke about two books: In the Wake: On Blackness and Being by Christina Sharpe and Passed On by Karla FC HollowayIf you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and occasionally a newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Hailey is another amazing young adult who I met through Comfort Zone Camp. Hailey has been through a lot of turmoil in her life and she is just an amazing example of resiliency and learning to cope with the fallout of the losses she has experienced. While Hailey was in high school, two of her siblings died within the span of two years. Life at home was hard and her main sources of support were her best friend and a school psychologist who inspired her to become a school counselor.Hailey's brother Dillon died by suicide when Hailey was a freshman and he was a senior at the same high school. The school's policies made it harder for her in the aftermath of her brother's death because they didn't want to "glorify" his death and forbid anyone, including teachers, from talking about it. Hailey points out that this policy only magnified the stigma around suicide and encouraged a lot of misinformation and gossip which was hurtful to her and her family. When her brother Sean died of an accidental overdose two years later, Hailey was a senior and Sean was in his twenties so she didn't tell anyone, wanting to avoid the same kind of gossip that the school engaged in previously. Both situations resulted in exacerbating the isolation and alienation that Hailey was already feeling in the wake of her brothers' deaths.Hailey also talks about how she coped growing up in a household with substance abuse and how those coping mechanisms that helped her survive in childhood, were not healthy for her as she grew up. It took a lot of work for her to unlearn her mind's reflex to disassociate but when she did, her other trauma symptoms of flashbacks and nightmares improved. Hailey shares how she deals with her symptoms and the strategies she has learned to take care of herself and enjoy life.At the beginning, I mentioned Comfort Zone Camp which I highly recommend for anyone who has dealt with the loss of a parent or other important family member early in life. They have free, weekend-long camps for kids, teens, and young adults. And if you are older and curious about the camp, I recommend looking into volunteering. I have done it three times now and will continue as long as possible.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

In this episode, we delve deep into the research and practical experience of Dr. Julie Kaplow, PhD, ABPP, a leading psychologist in the field of childhood grief and trauma. It is always gratifying to learn that the research aligns with what I've learned by interviewing people who lost a family member at a young age. Early in her career, she began to differentiate between grief and trauma while also recognizing the ways they overlap, particularly in children. She shares why it's important to understand the difference between PTSD symptoms and grief responses in kids and how she treats them differently. We talked about the important role parents play in the aftermath of a death, as well as the importance of other community members, including teachers, friends, and relatives, to understand the peculiarities of childhood grief. All of this aligns perfectly with the purpose of this show: To help everyone understand what grieving kids need, and the long-term effects of early loss.If you'd like to learn more about Dr. Kaplow you can find more information here.I mentioned Comfort Zone Camp which I highly recommend for anyone who has dealt with the loss of a parent or other important family member early in life. They have free, weekend-long camps for kids, teens, and young adults. And if you are older and curious about the camp, I recommend looking into volunteering. I have done it twice and will continue as long as possible because I find volunteering so beneficial.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Nora Martinez lost her father Ken to gastrointestinal (GIST) cancer almost twenty years ago when she was just five years old. As someone who has benefited from having support for her grief throughout her childhood and adolescence, Nora provides a fascinating window into childhood grief through her ability to reflect on it with clarity and perspective. I have encountered many people my age who lost a parent or other close family member in childhood who did not get much support and still struggle to talk about the loss or even admit that it has affected their lives.I love talking to younger people who have grown up in a culture and family that is more open to talking about grief and getting mental health support. Nora started attending Comfort Zone Camp at age nine and credits her ongoing relationship with CZC and the people she met there with her ability to be the loving and compassionate person she has become. I loved her description of her grief as a kind of "golden armor" that gives her strength but also allows her to respond with empathy and wisdom.We spoke about Comfort Zone Camp which I can't recommend more highly for anyone who has dealt with the loss of a parent or other important family member early in their life. They have free, weekend-long camps for kids, teens, and young adults. And if you are older and curious about the camp, I recommend looking into volunteering. I have done it twice and will continue to do it as long as I can because volunteering is just as beneficial as being a camper.We also talked about the book, Abuela, Don't Forget Me by Rex Ogle.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

It was an honor to interview Edwidge Danticat, one of my favorite writers on death, dying, and grief about her early losses and what she is trying to achieve in her work. We spoke about her new book "We're Alone," a collection of essays about her life as a writer straddling her life as a Haitian immigrant with strong ties to her home country. I also asked about some of her earliest books ("Breath, Eyes, Memory," "Brother, I'm Dying," and "Krik? Krak!") because she has written so beautifully about death and loss, both through the eyes of a child but also throughout adulthood. Having been separated from her parents for eight years at the age of four, she has written extensively about the particular experience of loss due to displacement and how that early loss echoes through her later losses of her parents. We discussed the contrast between the ever-changing mourning rituals in Haiti and in the U.S., and how the younger generations are adapting traditional practices to suit their needs. We also talked about Christina Sharpe's amazing book "In the Wake: On Blackness and Being" and how she and Danticat have both tried to address the magnitude of Black grief in their work.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

In this episode, I interview journalist and author Mona Gable about growing up in the 1950s with her mother who was mentally disabled by brain surgery right after Mona was born. Mona was never told what had happened to her mother which only contributed to her feelings of shame and isolation as a child growing up with a mother who was incapable of caring for her and instead required constant care. Mona says, "My mother was a complete mystery to me." All she knew was that none of her friends had a mother like hers. It's the kind of "ambiguous loss" that no one talked about at the time, and it's incredible to hear how resilient and driven Mona was from a very young age. She managed to leave home, get herself through college, and get the support she needed to pursue a successful career as a writer. Her work has focused on many things including health issues, parenting, travel, and indigenous issues.We started out talking about her latest book, Searching for Savannah. To find out more about Mona and her work visit her website.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

This episode is jam-packed with wisdom from Maya Puterbaugh, one of my younger guests, who knows a ton about grief and overcoming the trauma of a fatal car accident. After attending Comfort Zone Camp, Maya became a volunteer Big Buddy and now trains other volunteers for Comfort Zone Camp. She is so knowledgeable and a true leader when it comes to advocating for grieving kids. Maya shares very openly about what she went through when she lost her mother at sixteen. Maya's parents were divorced, so her father regained sole custody which meant moving back to California after living in Las Vegas, changing high schools, and leaving her two-year-old half-brother and stepdad. She had sustained injuries in the accident so there was a lot of change, grief, and recovery happening all at once. Maya credits Comfort Zone, therapy, and both her father and stepfather for understanding the complexity of her situation and knowing how to support her and her siblings.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."

Tim Tattu left a creative career in film production to become a hospice nurse after studying Zen meditation with an instructor who asked him to help set up a place to care for people who are dying in Washington State called Enso House. His whole life story is fascinating and I loved talking with him about grief and dying and his own childhood losses. Tim brings so much presence, wisdom, and compassion to this deep discussion about grief and how it affects us early in life and as we grow older. The most powerful thing he had to share was the idea of staying present to the mystery of death at the end of life and how that can help us be more present in our experiences of death and grief.If you would like to support this show, please subscribe to my Substack where you will receive bi-weekly episodes and a bi-weekly newsletter in your inbox. You can also support the show monetarily by becoming a paid subscriber there.Special thanks to Josephine Wiggs for the song "Time Does Not Bring Relief" from her album "We Fall."