Analyze Scripts

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are joined by Dr. Jessi Gold (@drjessigold) to discuss the first season of "Yellowjackets" on Showtime. We break down the show's depiction of various forms of posttraumatic stress disorder and how the characters' pre-trauma backgrounds contribute to the different symptoms they experience in adulthood. We also explore the show's depiction of adolescent, teenage girl group dynamics, and the blurriness between psychosis and mysticism. We hope you enjoy!

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Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi. Welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. My name is Dr. Katrina Fury and I'm A psychiatrist. And I'm joined by my friend and co host Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker. And today we are super excited because we also have Dr. Jesse Gold joining us to discuss season one of Yellow Jackets, the hit show on Showtime. A couple of episodes of season two have already started rolling out, but we're going to focus on season one today because there's a lot to talk about before we welcome our guests. I just wanted to give a little bio. I feel very strongly about reading people's full biographies, especially women, so I'm going to read the whole thing and I love it. Jesse Gold is an assistant professor and the Director of Wellness, Engagement and Outreach in the Department of Psychiatry at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. She's a nationally recognized expert on healthcare worker mental health and burnout, particularly during the Pandemic college mental health using social media and media for mental health advocacy and the overlap between pop culture and mental health, including celebrity self disclosure. She works clinically as an outpatient psychiatrist and sees faculty, staff, hospital employees and their dependents, particularly their college age kids. Dr. Gold also writes for the popular press and has been featured in, among others, the New York Times, the Atlantic, InStyle, the Washington Post, Time and Self. So, like, no big deal. She is on the Rare Beauty Mental Health Council and the Mental Health Storytelling Initiative and a co author of The Mental Health Media Guide, which can be found@mentalhealthmediaguide.com. Dr. Gold is a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania with a BA. And a master's in anthropology, the Yale School of Medicine, and completed her residency training in adult psychiatry at Stanford University, where she served as chief resident. Again, no big deal. Her website is Dr. Jessegold.com, and she can be found at Dr. Jessegold Drjessigold on Twitter, Instagram and TikTok. Cool. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Jesse. This is so super cool.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Thanks for reading that thing. I was really hoping everybody would get to hear that also.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I know, I know. If you want to tell us your favorite color or your deepest, darkest fears, we got all the time in the world.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Can't wait.

Dr. Katrina Furey: So speaking of deepest, darkest fears, this is probably one of mine. Plane crash in the middle of the mountains of Canada. In adolescence, I cannot imagine a more frightening, terrifying experience. And Portia here, we're learning that she likes more of, like, the light hearted things. And I really like the dark and twisty nasty things.

Dr. Jessi Gold: So I was like, really worried for you.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I know.

Portia Pendleton: You gave me some. You were like, episode six, trigger warning this. And I was like, okay. I watched some things on. I skipped over a couple of scenes.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. I was like, you got to watch it in the day with the lights on, hold all your pets. It's a lot, right?

Portia Pendleton: It didn't help my plane anxiety, but.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, yeah, I forgot you have plane anxiety, too. You got to take a beta blocker before you watch these.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Who.

Portia Pendleton: You're just fine.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Oh, gee, sorry about that. It's a really interesting show in that when you try to tell people about it, one minor is just horrible. You're like, hey, it's a really great show. I swear. It's about teenagers who crashed in an airplane and may or may not become cannibals. And also they see them as adults, too. And people are like, what? And I don't like horror and really dark stuff. I like psychological thrillers. That bother me. I thought you guys said you kind of have boundaries on what it's going to show, and you can choose not to watch some of the stuff.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think it's just such a fascinating portrayal of how one trauma affects so many people in a different way and then how you sort of simultaneously see the depiction of their back stories and their future stories and how they all weave in. And it's like at the beginning, the things you think are going to happen don't happen.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: I think Vanessa the goalie. I liked that we saw a little bit of her backstory with, like it seems like mom is an alcoholic. She was kind of like a caregiver. And then the trauma of the plane crash, and then she was left in the plane almost like, died via fire. And then comes out and is really mad at Jackie and Shauna for kind of like leaving her there. So I think even that initial, it's like she had a double trauma right at the crash scene, like the crash, and then had her friends leave her for dead. And then she survives. And then I think that she does not like Jackie.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right? Yeah. So Vanessa, again, to remind everyone, because there are a lot of characters, is the redhead on the goalie team, and she's ties love interest van oh, yeah.

Dr. Jessi Gold: People knowing kids.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And even like you're saying there we see those traumas right back to back, but also we see her backstory of her mom and how she's kind of been left by her mom in that way. And now here she is strapped in a plane that's exploding or catching fire, and now she's kind of left again but somehow gets out. So I think maybe we'll start with a rundown of the main characters.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Sure.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Probably just to orient ourselves a bit. So Jackie is on the team. She's kind of like the it girl, right? Like, she's the pretty one. She's the popular one. She has the boyfriend. And I thought she was the one we saw running naked through the woods originally. Who they sacrifice or something. Something. Now I don't know. I don't know who anyone is anymore. And then Shauna, played by Melanie Linsky, is her best friendfriend. Of me, maybe unclear. She's the one who ended up having sex with her boyfriend, with Jackie's boyfriend and getting pregnant. Oh, my God.

Portia Pendleton: Ends off right. She is still pregnant.

Dr. Katrina Furey: She's still pregnant, yeah. At some point. The trigger warning I gave you, Portia, was she tried to have an abortion in the woods. I thought that was really heart wrenching. I can't even find a word strong enough. What do you think? What did you think about all that part? Yeah, that part. That little part.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I think I get it in a lot of ways. If you don't have food and you are a kid anyway, like, what would have your choice been? A choice in the normal kind of setting, let alone setting where you're starving, everyone else is starving. You know nothing about babies or how to have a baby, and you are a baby. And I mean, I get and it's almost like you saw something on TV and that's what you do and so that's what you try to do. That's what it felt like.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: This is what I thought be a thing. And it's almost like just sort of the influence of restrictions and what people learn from that. But it's heart wrenching and it also just shows how scary it must be to be in that position as a kid anyway, let alone after a flame crash in the wilderness.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I know.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I think it's a lot of trauma and a lot of vulnerability and it comes to ahead of it there. But I think it shows also how they support each other.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Introduce Taisa, but she's there.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right, exactly. And that dynamic between Taisa and Shauna, I feel like again, in their adolescence and now in adulthood, as they're coming back together, just thinking that they were there together through these awful, horrible things. And when Ty, like, really is showing up for her in that way, I just thought was really intense and just really interesting way to see how the characters relationships develop over time. And with Ty, like, keeping that secret for as long as she could about the pregnancy and things like that, tyisse is another main character. Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: I was kind of shocked, I guess, at the end, which I don't want to just skip all over her other.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Scenes, but how it really did in.

Portia Pendleton: Fact impact her, like eating the dirt, her sleepwalking, her family situation, kind of like after the crash, her son, so we think is like the problem.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Portia Pendleton: Or having some reaction to his mom, clearly. And then her political run, and then all of a sudden trying to jump back into the media. And it seems like all the other characters are like, we planned and we promised that we wouldn't do this, we were going to stay kind of under the radar. And here you are doing like a Senate run.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Portia Pendleton: But I feel like I like her character a lot as a teen, I feel like she's really strong. I just saw a lot of resilience with her through everything, like trying to go out and lead them to find help, knowing that it was probably like a death sentence, but she was going to risk it before the animal attack. And then her relationship with Van is really sweet. I feel like there's some sweet moments that come out with her and her family and then with Van kind of back and forth, which is nice in kind of the whole conflict within the trauma, and it being really terrifying.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't feel like we got a lot of her backstory. Pre crash?

Portia Pendleton: I don't think so.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Did we hear a lot of I don't think we really got a lot.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Remember correctly, her parents were kind of supportive. They were there, they said, Bye. There wasn't anything that we saw that was particularly traumatic in a Natalie kind of way. I think some of the backstories are there to show that sometimes the resilience comes from previous history, previous trauma, or you never know what people are coming in with that's important. We can have the same trauma affect everybody, but whatever your history is, it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Might affect you differently 100%. And we see a lot of her family in the present day, like with her wife and their son. And I think touching on her sexuality with Van being a teen in the an all girls soccer team, how she was very reluctant to be open at first and then got more comfortable. I thought that was a really interesting storyline, too, and how she, again really showed up for Shauna when she really, really needed her. And, yeah, I think with her character in particular, all the snippets along the way of, like, she's running for politics, for Senate, I think state senate. And then the stuff with her son, at first I thought, like, oh, something's up with her son. And then as things unfolded, it was like, oh, she's the lady in the tree. He's not seeing. I thought, does he have some sort of early onset psychosis or is he stressed or what's? Like his full story? And then I thought the show's depiction of his evaluation with the two way mirror, that was him. Right. Was really good. I think overall, I think the two way mirrors and stuff, I don't know about. At Wash, you like, at Yale, we didn't have that, but I know at Duke, when I interviewed, they did stuff like that for family therapy, so I know they do that, and I think it was actually a pretty good depiction of that. And I always love when I see accurate and well rounded and positive depictions of therapy in the media, because so many times they are terrible.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah, I mean, it's sort of like you're concerned about your kid, you come together to figure it out. It's important enough to you. You can see that there's some tension about who it's more important to, which I'm sure comes out. At Stanford, when we learned outpatient, we even did it behind, and the patients knew we'd, like, come out and talk to people and go back in. It's interesting from the family side to also have the family behind and giving feedback. We're allowed because I think people tell their own stories and kids tell their own stories, and it helps to have context or see even family reactions to things when people are talking. But I think in a lot of ways, too, it wouldn't be surprising if their kid had issues and the mom was like, there's all this data even, like, let's say extreme example comes to my head. Like, Holocaust parents, like parents who survive the Holocaust. There's a lot of restriction and limits and trauma exposed to the next generation 100%. That doesn't surprise me. If you had something like that, that a kid could struggle 100%, it makes a lot of sense.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: So you're kind of like, okay, I get where that's it wasn't, like, surprising that the kid could be dark and struggled 100%.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right?

Portia Pendleton: Yeah.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Look what happened to the mom.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Of course there's something there, and, like.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Actually, it still is the mom. Yeah. We had a fellow Yale psych grad, Christine Aradondo, on a couple of episodes back to talk about Encounter and, like, the very different movie from this show.

Dr. Jessi Gold: But.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Totally different vibe, but talking about that intergenerational trauma, like how the first trauma kind of trickles down in Generations. At first, as we were watching Taisa and her family in present day, I was thinking, is that just like, you're saying, jesse, of course he might have some stuff going on, and she's, like, running for Senate, and he comes from a home with two moms. It sounds like maybe he had switched schools. Now he's in public school. There's a lot going on. I didn't see coming that it was going to be like, Taisa doing all these things sleepwalking. But then as they connected that to what happened to her in the woods sleepwalking, and when Van and her would tie themselves together and she would bite her and all these things, I was like, oh, okay, now I see it. But it's really sad to see that kind of unraveling of her family. The moment where she asked Simone to go stay with her mom, and she was really pleading with her, like, you don't understand. I could really hurt you. That really broke my heart, but I thought was really genuine and authentic. And I don't even think she's aware of everything she's capable of. I don't think she remembers that place in the basement with the dog head and all this stuff. Right. I would say I don't often see things like that with PTSD. I feel like that's a very severe depiction of it. I guess it could happen. Right.

Portia Pendleton: Or almost just like how much it impacted their brain. Their trauma is just so severe, and it seems like they have not really talked about it with people because everyone wants something from them.

Dr. Katrina Furey: They just want to know, did you eat each other?

Dr. Jessi Gold: Right.

Portia Pendleton: And it seems when we meet them as adults, they're not really close. I think some of them talk or I know that Tyesa had paid for Natalie's rehabs, but it sounds like they're not like, friends and they so desperately need to I mean, Shauna finally tells her husband some of the details, and it's just like he has no idea. So, I mean, I think gosh, it's not even like they processed at all.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right?

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah. I think it's like an extreme dissociation. I suppose sleep does all sorts of weird things with trauma and safety and not wanting to be asleep because they're not safe and all of that. So I guess some of that is possible. There's, like, a mystical aspect of the show too, but I think inherently the not processing is going to be a reason for the dissociation. The portrayal is, like, super extreme, which it is. Like, I've never had a patient, like, killer dog.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. And create, like, a shrine.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Also never had a patient who was surviving in the wilderness and eating people. So I don't know what that really does to someone from a patient, from having heard a story that was similar. So I guess it's definitely extreme, but there's some elements of possibility in there. I'm hoping at some point they show us that they forced them into therapy at least a little, and that they all just didn't say anything because they didn't want to get in trouble. Probably what they thought was like, a crime. At some point, they actually hunt people, and so at some point, they kill people. That's a crime. I sort of wonder if you find them, you're going to probably get them into you would hope, right? I don't know. Maybe that wasn't a thing, and you wouldn't have forced them, but it seems weird you wouldn't have had them go to, like, one session or even in the hospital.

Portia Pendleton: I'm assuming that when they were they were all evaluated, all taken to a thing, all given IV fluids and kind of checked out. And also I would hope that there was a psychiatrist coming in and being like, hey.

Dr. Jessi Gold: You'Ve had a lot going on.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Tell me. Great. But I would think, how do they trust anyone? I don't even know. I think it'd be really hard for any of them to do therapy. I feel like the one who I would think would maybe jump on is Misty, who I find I don't know. Well, I think she'd do it for attention. Okay. I think she would, like, feeling connected to someone who wants to listen to her and cares about her.

Portia Pendleton: It's so funny.

Dr. Katrina Furey: She's one of my favorite characters.

Portia Pendleton: Both absolutely. Oh, she terrifies me.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I love Christina Ricci. Like hello, Casper. Hello. Now and then. I love anything. I want to watch her all the time. But she destroyed that box thing, the signal thing.

Portia Pendleton: She watches the rat in the pool or the mouse struggling.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: That's pre crash.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. Portia what do you think, Jesse? Are you terrified?

Dr. Jessi Gold: I mean, I wonder if anyone ever figures out she destroys a boxing. Never. Because they talked to her.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Again, people died because of her, so there's no way right.

Portia Pendleton: They can't have and I was confused about that folder thing that she has all the information in in the woods. She keeps it in the trunk.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. She, like, doesn't want them to be discovered.

Portia Pendleton: And why do you have that?

Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know.

Dr. Jessi Gold: It's because she's, like, popular there.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Exactly. That's what I mean.

Dr. Jessi Gold: She has skills that people want there.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: On the team. She's like the water girl manager, water girl person who's there. Whereas in the wilderness, she can help. And I think feeling needed and wanted is something important to her. Whether there's some kind of actual severe pathology there that's dangerous is one thing, but I also think it's just like a desire to be liked and making rash decisions as a result, including destroying the box, because maybe she thought people would find them eventually and it would just give them a couple more days together or something. Like, I doubt she was like, I bet we're screwed forever now. But I think in the moment, she was like, I like this, and I like being needed, and I'd like to keep being needed, so let's just totally have that. Stay.

Dr. Katrina Furey: But then she tries to poison the guy who loses his leg. I just think she might be a sociopath.

Portia Pendleton: She definitely is demonstrating some traits.

Dr. Katrina Furey: At least two traits, and then she kidnaps the reporter lady and ties her up. Right? Yeah.

Dr. Jessi Gold: She's also really defending her own. Right. So it's again, she's protective of her people and their story and what she reporters kidnapped to help them. In her mind. I'm not saying it's, like, healthy, but the decision to do that was to protect her friends. She wants to protect Natalie, and I think that she sees where she's stronger in some aspects than they have been, and I think their story she tries really hard to protect. So I don't know. I think that there's definitely some problems going on up there and that she definitely kills kind of easily or chops legs easily and things like that.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: But in the same respect, she has a defense of people she cares about. That's nice. In that setting, I want someone to kill for me. But it's nice to know if you.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Needed it, you could call her.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I guess she means that she'd be there, right? I don't know.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, she's there through Thick anthony yeah.

Portia Pendleton: And the setting is so unusual.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Portia Pendleton: It's so not a societal norm that it's like, it's interesting, like, who does well in that setting, right?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Exactly.

Portia Pendleton: Jackie feels very normal teen and she has like a really hard time. She's popular in like a traditional high school setting, falls apart in the woods. And Misty is not popular in high school setting. And then kind of like really need really helpful and shows up for people in the woods. It obviously still does some questionable things, but I think that's just interesting because in our society, some of these people don't fit in and have these antisocial.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Traits, but then it turns out really useful when you're starving in the woods.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I do agree, though, that the social hierarchy of ending is interesting. Right. And I think it's one of the things that makes it kind of cool that it's that population of like, roles, because you're like, teen girls are mean girls and there's bullying and there's reasons people are cool. Like they're dating the popular guy and they're pretty and they put out I don't know. Right. It's like things that are admired as characteristics in a person who's popular, but then when they go to the wilderness, that person has zero skill set and actually annoys them.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Because they can't do anything. Right. They're like, you're obviously useless here. We don't need a cheerleader. And at times that helps them right. To have the support and care. But a team captain for a soccer team is not the same as a team captain for a soccer team that needs to survive.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: That upending, I think is really cool.

Portia Pendleton: I think it's just like, of course that she goes for Ben and then he turns out he's gay and he.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Kind of is so afraid of her.

Portia Pendleton: It seems like that he's willing to.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Go to the prom. Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: That they're in this secret relationship or that he plays into this vanity.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, yes, he did chop off, kill him, poison him. Again and again. It's the think about again, both we see Ty and Ben with their sexuality and struggling, like how open to be. And again, maybe the wilderness when you're starving isn't the time to come out. For Ben it's hard, but I feel.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Like for Ty it's like safe and protective altogether. And she wants to be loved by someone and loving someone is protective against all of the bad stuff. I don't know, I think that that story, like the Van and Ty thing is sort of like really bad things happen, but you can together dance with somebody. Emotions are weird and mixed and don't all have to be bad at once. And sometimes you need those little moments of wind keep going.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I don't know. I think that for them it was like, whatever and we love each other, might as well. This is the last time we see each other, we might as well. And I think it was safe, right? That stuff ends up being kind of like a safe place for them.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. And again, it's interesting how they depict that being a safe place and, like, a really sweet storyline and theme to carry through when there's so little sweet storylines. Right. But then for Ben, the coach, how it didn't feel safe for a really long time until it kind of felt like he had no other choice.

Portia Pendleton: He discloses to Natalie, which I think.

Dr. Katrina Furey: They have a nice bond, I thought.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I wonder if it's just like, in a way, he's an assistant coach, too, right?

Dr. Katrina Furey: I think so.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I think it's like he was left to take care of all of them. And he's not that old.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. He's probably, like, 19 or something.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Just graduated college, are still in college kind of age. He's not supposed to be the one helping people survive while he's barely surviving himself. I can't imagine how pain that would be.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: I think we want to talk about Natalie and her character.

Dr. Katrina Furey: There's a lot to talk about with her. First, how did her hair stay blonde in the wilderness for 19 months?

Portia Pendleton: It starts to grow out, I think, towards the end, it's like, this much.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I thought about that, too. There were some things like that. I don't think Van would have survived that wolf attack. Like, she totally, unfortunately, would have gotten septic, I think. Right. There are just some plot holes, we'll call them, but we can have some.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Creative life fantasy in it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I would like that fantasy. Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I don't think they were, like, thinking so much about the hair or I don't know. I mean, lottie's off medicine.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I know the location decision about what.

Dr. Jessi Gold: That is something I haven't talked about Lottie, but yeah, I think Nat's backstory is the most interesting. I think Natalie probably coaxed in the way most people don't think they will, but will.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. I totally agree.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Using alcohol, being aggressive, like, using drugs, like, not really wanting connection because they go away.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: It's a really common reaction, though. Like, most people, I think, would be like, well, of course they won't turn to that. That's not me. But it is if it makes the feelings go away.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. I mean, look at COVID and how high the alcohol rates went up. This totally happens.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Natalie was a really fascinating character, I think, all around, and she just got more and more complex, I think, like, as the yeah. As the season went on, almost, to.

Portia Pendleton: Me, the most, like, typical reaction. Like, not I feel like I wasn't surprised about how she was handling things.

Dr. Katrina Furey: At all after yeah.

Portia Pendleton: Her teen prior crash traumas, and then obviously the crash. But I was kind of interested to see where she learned how to shoot the gun.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Right.

Portia Pendleton: So then it kind of flashes forward to her and her dad, who seems abusive, and then she is pointing the gun at him and clicks the trigger. He must be very abusive. That's a pretty far place to go, and then it doesn't go. And I'm like, now he knows that you are going to shoot him, and.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Then we see how abusive he is, that he's so insulting, and then he.

Portia Pendleton: Falls and shoots his head. And I was like, wow, that is traumatic to see, like, gory and wow.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. Trauma.

Dr. Jessi Gold: And I also think it's like the things she doesn't I'm sure none of them know that. It would be shocking to me. They probably know her dad's dead. Right. And that's it. I doubt any of them know that. They just were like, oh, she knows how to shoot a gun because they went hunting or something. I don't know. I mean, I think maybe that guy who's, like, he's a cop now. Maybe he was there and kind of had more of a relationship with her.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I don't know that she would have told that. He has the people in the wilderness.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, no, I don't think so.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Like, hey, soccer team talk is not like that. Probably. I don't know.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I was surprised she was on the soccer team, I have to say.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah, she's edgy for it, which is actually good. Right. I think that could be part of it. She actually was decent at the game, and so for her about the stuff that comes with it, as much as she actually liked the sport, and it's.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Probably a great way to get out some aggression as a teenage girl going through that and probably so much more at home. And then when she was at the soccer game with that guy from high school and his kid, and she was, like, telling him, you do this move and you do that move, and then he won. I thought that was really sweet, but I wasn't surprised that she didn't sort of continue with that connection. I think, like you said, Jesse, connections and closeness feel really scary to her. So I think she's someone who, I think, craves it but avoids it, given everything she's gone through. And I really am interested to continue seeing and learning more about her relationship with Travis when they're in the woods, and then what happens, like, when they all get back. Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: Because that was just also, like, another person leaving, right. When he's, like, we think killed the police. Don't think so, but we think so.

Dr. Katrina Furey: That he was murdered.

Portia Pendleton: That's another huge loss for her.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, 100%. And she has this feeling like that he wouldn't commit suicide. And then we get into that symbol, and I think that kind of brings us also into talking about Lottie, who was, like, a surprise. Big deal at the end. I was really fascinated at the beginning when they showed that she was on a typical antipsychotic, and I was like, oh, no. What is going to happen to her in the wilderness without this? This is not good. And then when she started having these visions. And stuff. It was really interesting to me. How do you frame it? Is it more mystical or is it psychosis? And it's interesting to see how the whole team reacts to it while they're all under duress and desperate for some sort of leader and some help and.

Portia Pendleton: On mushrooms, that's when she kind of becomes this leader in this attempt to.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Sacrifice kill the Travis. Yeah.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I think it's like when people ask us if cult leaders have mental illness. Right. And I think probably there are some people that do and some people that don't. And people who follow cults are not necessarily psychotic either. But I think that there's this gray line that very blurry with that stuff, where diagnostically, they don't necessarily have that, or they have more insight than we would consider someone with psychosis having or something. But it kind of shows that blurred lines and cult leaders and psychosis that I think is super interesting, this desire for something bigger than them, almost like religion, is also where cult comes in, which is, like, I need to believe in something to keep going. And the thing that they're starting to believe in is, like, the power of nature and the relationship with nature and nature saving them. And what Lottie can do is because she could talk to animals, whatever it is. And it's just sort of like, I need to have a higher power. The higher power just happens to be based in this world of someone who might not be in touch with reality. But I also don't think that they know that. They're like, I bet Lottie's off her med, right?

Dr. Katrina Furey: 100%.

Dr. Jessi Gold: No, that's a secret.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right?

Dr. Jessi Gold: Because she just, like, ran out.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. NBD.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Doesn'T she take medication? Maybe we should listen to her. Which I think would happen in the real like, as bad as that is. Right. Like, in sort of stigmatizing, to sort of assume that that person is having some sort of mental illness related thing. I think that in the world, if someone knew you were on antipsychotics and then we're in the wilderness and not on antipsychotics, they'd say, Where's that coming from? Her head should be you scared and worried about her as opposed to following her. And that saying is true. But they just wanted something to believe in.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. And so I think it just totally speaks to how desperate they are, just like you're saying.

Portia Pendleton: And Cam is one of the first ones I'm sorry, not Cam. Van is one of the first ones to really take an interest in it and kind of also want the seance, and then when they're back, she just kind of wants to pray over their meal. And I think it's interesting that Tyisa.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Is really opposed to it.

Portia Pendleton: Does it then, kind of for Van, but even with just their backgrounds and this is really, like, making big assumptions here, but based on Van's backstory, I feel like it's less surprising that she really needs something to kind of anchor her and ground her. And TYSA is more able to, at this point, kind of have an inner self. Yeah, but then she does it for Van, which is sweet, but I think.

Dr. Katrina Furey: That'S a nice thing.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Van also survives in multiple times. She shouldn't. When that happens, people get weird.

Dr. Katrina Furey: They do.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I don't know, people turn to weird mystical stuff or there must be some reason I'm alive, right?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, the laws of probability become magical and mystical. I see this even with people with, I want to say, run of the mill PTSD, like, not related to something super severe, like the Holocaust or a plane crash like this, but someone who's maybe had, like, complex childhood dynamics, maybe a parent with an addiction. They're in an abusive relationship and they got a car accident or something, like just sort of like a series of things, and they keep surviving or they don't. And it does start to feel like it has this, like, you're saying mystical or religious meaning to it. And I think that's part of the way humans try to process trauma and things that are hard to make sense of, especially when so many of them happen to you. You start to think like, well, I must be cursed, or, there must be someone looking out, or something like that does make a lot of sense.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Look for a meeting. You were saying at the beginning, too. She almost was in the plane when the plane was on fire. Too right. So in a lot of ways, there are a lot of things with fire for her, a lot of things with animals. And I think that also goes with the symbolism. What Lottie 100% very much prey on the things that she survived to do that she would be probably the most vulnerable to it.

Portia Pendleton: The other.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Lee. And so the religious person also wants to believe in stuff. It might be different stuff, but she doesn't say anything weird about the experience of what Lottie is talking about because she believes in religion pretty strongly herself. So I don't know. To me, it's like a logical person to be most convinced from crazy stuff multiple times. And, like, someone stitching her face in your house. I know.

Dr. Katrina Furey: She's got, like, barely a scar.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Am I here? Also? I am. And we know from season two spoilers that someone was cast as older Van. So we know Van makes it. So I think that's also important.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. There were a couple of people near the end who we found out made it that I didn't think would have the whole season. I thought it was like, this core group of, like, four or five girls, and then we learn, like, oh, no, more of them.

Portia Pendleton: Last scene, I see them calling a couple more survivors.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Wow.

Portia Pendleton: Okay, here we go.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Also, you guys are mentioning they separate. Something happens where they don't want to be around each other anymore. And, like, Tyson band clearly break up. Right. I think that it's not surprising we don't see them all in the same stuff. And that core group was kind of a core group during anyway. They're kind of clicky a little. They were like friends before. They supported each other through it. They pull in some others, but some of the other ones, they're there and they get in the wilderness and maybe just not otherwise.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right? Yeah. And I wonder in season two if we'll see more and more of those other girls. I know we see more of Lottie, who's given me, like, Teal Swan vibes. We'll talk about it more next time. Have you watched that yet, Portia?

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: Okay.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Have you seen that, Jesse?

Dr. Jessi Gold: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Or the Teal Swan documentary?

Dr. Jessi Gold: Oh, no, I don't think so.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, you got to watch it. You'll love it.

Dr. Jessi Gold: What cult is that?

Dr. Katrina Furey: It's hers. She's called Teal Swan. It's on, hulu. I had a patient way back in the day come to a session in distress because they had a sibling who was, like, getting all involved in it. And I was like, I don't know who that is. And then fast forward, like last year, there was this documentary out, and I was like, but it's very similar to this dynamic. And you can see how not to spoil the documentary for you, but I will. Basically, Teal Swan hires this private investigator who is a very nice elderly woman. Interesting choice for a private investigator to follow them around and investigate and prove they're not a cult. And it turns out her findings are that they are indeed a cult. And then you see all of Til Swan's rage and all these reactions and just so many interesting dynamics. It just reminds me a lot of what we might see in season two.

Portia Pendleton: It reminds me of the show also on Hulu with Nicole Kidman based on.

Dr. Katrina Furey: That big little nine perfect stranger.

Portia Pendleton: It's very similar to that. Like a cult leader.

Dr. Jessi Gold: They're all on Shrooms, too, which is also relevant to this.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Which is like the weird mystical aspect. Shrooms mixed with psychosis, mixed with not sleeping and not eating and not having normal body temperature regulation.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. All of it.

Dr. Jessi Gold: It's like a permanent state of mania. Right?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. And again, I think in the Teal Swan documentary, which is reminding me of this show, you do see certain types of people are more vulnerable to these types of people like Lottie or that influence like we're talking about. And I feel like in the show, showing that it was Van and Laura Lee really tracks, I think, in the real world. And it's interesting to me how Natalie is so against it. And again right. Like, AA. And a lot of the treatment we sort of recommend for addiction also has this reliance on a higher power. And I wonder how Natalie feels about that probably not great, is my assumption.

Dr. Jessi Gold: You kind of see that right at the beginning. It's almost like she's going through the motions to get out of there.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Exactly.

Dr. Jessi Gold: She wasn't using or whatever, but she kind of feels like, to me, the kind of patient that would go once and be like, this stuff's ridiculous.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right?

Dr. Jessi Gold: Also figure out a way to quit themselves that has enough internal whatever where you're like, you did what? And they're like, completely cold turkey. Did I see that? But I also could see that probably AA and even group therapy in general might feel like that to her, right?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Especially after this whole experience.

Dr. Jessi Gold: And because the biggest complaint people have with AA is like, the higher power part 100%, people are always like, it doesn't have to be a spiritual thing. Like, it can be whatever a higher power is for you to try to not scare people away. And there's so much evidence that it works. And it's I also think, like here's, supporting group support is not going to work in a group that had to survive that and doesn't trust anybody. Ultimately, the normalization of experience, et cetera, would be helpful, but unless the group is them, I can't right imagine that you go to a group like that and you're like, Well, I survived the plane crash. Everyone stares at you. Then you're like, I lived there for however many months.

Dr. Katrina Furey: 19 months.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah, I lived there for 19 months. They're like, well, what did you do? Well, we had to curiosity, like voyeurism support. It's like this voyeuristic interest in what happened and why. And that's why journalists are interested, too, but it's not in healing them. And I think sometimes people think therapists do that too, right? Where your story is so unique and original that when you're telling your therapist, people watch the reaction, and the reaction or the questions feel like you're like, wait, what? Tell me more about that in a way that feels incredulous or feels like you're asking for education on it. People don't want to go back to therapy either, right? Because they feel like they're telling their story in the way that you said, maybe Misty would like it for the attention, for the interest, not for support. And I think it will be hard to find somebody I mean, there are therapists who specialize in quotes and things like that, but who knows what they did back then? But I do think that it would be hard to find somebody in a support group with people who are there doing other stuff in that sense, because it also ends up like grief Olympic thing. And you're not going to beat the person for 19 months. You're just not, right? So it makes it a weird dynamic for a group where the group's then like, can I talk about how I'm fighting with my husband? And of course you can, because your trauma is your trauma, and is valid and your feelings are valid. Right. But if you're that person who turned to substances to hide how ashamed they were to begin with, and then the person next to you is like, I survived 19 months in the wilderness. You'd be like, I don't think I would be able to be like, school is hard. I don't like med school. I don't like this, and things that have really stressed me out in my life next to someone, it's just really impossible.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: It's human nature to sort of compare in that sense. And it would make for a weird.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Group that it would. Right. Like you said, I feel like the group would have to be them. And like an expert therapist, I said skilled.

Portia Pendleton: If they're going to see someone, I feel like skilled is not even the right word. Used to be someone who's not reactive. Okay, so what emotion was that? Not like, oh, and then what happened?

Dr. Jessi Gold: I think anything you could say could be very easy, even if you're just trying to support them. And I'm more animated as a human. I didn't go to psychoanalytic school of thinking and I self disclosed and stuff like that. So for me, I wouldn't necessarily be doing that because I wanted more interestingly, but I think it could come off like that, or I would do the opposite, which is try really hard not to come off like I was like, flat or something, not interested or what they were saying wasn't important or something. I don't know that I could handle the middle ground as well. I think people probably don't realize that we can say that about why we don't see certain reasons and why we like certain things, because I can see what it would be like to tell someone from the other side that stuff. And if I don't feel like I can handle that appropriately, you shouldn't waste your story on me 100%.

Dr. Katrina Furey: It's really important.

Dr. Jessi Gold: It would scare them away from therapy, right? I don't know. I can't imagine that there's a safe place to land for most people in those circumstances. And probably a lot of them, the place that they land if they do get care is not the right one. And then what? I know they don't want to get help again. And then it's all weirdly repressed and coming out and killing rabbits and stuff. Right. I think it's a mental health. We're not perfect at what we do, but I think when you come in with stigma and beliefs about what it's going to be like and then we eat into it because that's not great in your head or whatever, I think it just makes it worse. So I'm hoping they show a lot of that stuff.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I am too.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I don't know that they will, but that stuff, at least for me, is like, super fascinating, which is like, how the heck do you get back to life at all? When that happened. And what does that look like for someone? I really hope they get into that because it's a weird time frame. Like, it's not the time frames they're showing right in between, but I hope they do, because at least from a psych perspective, that's super interesting to me. I don't even know what I would do as a psychiatrist in that situation.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. I totally agree. I really hope we do see some of that, because they are at least like, Ty, Shauna, Misty, Lottie. I feel like I'm forgetting one. Natalie. They're all functioning in different ways. And it's like how like how how.

Portia Pendleton: Shauna seems like and I wrote this as a question mark. I don't know if it was true. Was she at the first episode in her daughter's bedroom masturbating to her daughter's boyfriend's picture?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, it blocked.

Portia Pendleton: I think that she feels very stuck in her teen. Right. She came back and married her best friend's boyfriend, who she had been hooking up with. She is attracted to this young boy.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Survive. I don't think that baby is her daughter because the ages don't match up. But what happened?

Dr. Jessi Gold: She marries the guy no matter what that trauma was.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: You said we talked about the beginning, like her wanting to get rid of it, but on top of it, maybe it doesn't survive, maybe it does. Who knows? But what happens with that conversation that leads you to stay with the person too? Interesting. Your babies as a person too. And then the whole she feels like we always say people are stuck when their trauma happens. She feels like that definitely evolved beyond that, even beyond the weird daughter's boyfriend thing. When she's dating Adam, the things that she's doing are, like, rebellious, jumping off, like having a beer at a party.

Dr. Katrina Furey: In the parking lot of a gas station.

Dr. Jessi Gold: She's really excited about it, and it feels so exciting and new and whatever.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Because she never got to do it.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Normal childhood in teenage years. So she does feel to me very stuck in that. But at the same time, my role is to be mom and housewife, and so I shall make dinner and kind of go through the motions, but then.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I'm going to feed you. All rabbits do at the same time.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I'm very much the same age as my daughter, which is why my daughter doesn't buy my stuff. My daughter doesn't think that I should be able to mother her because I can't.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. I will say it was touching when Shaun is talking to Jeff and they're all coming clean to each other and she realizes that he knew this stuff all along and he stayed. I just thought that was really touching and really spoke to however dysfunctional their relationship is, I think anyone who goes through a trauma, huge, small, medium, whatever size, however you want to quantify it, just wants to feel held and accepted and not shunned. I think you were sort of touching on that, Jesse, about how would they ever function in group therapy with this being their trauma. I don't know. I thought that was a really sweet moment that she felt like he knew all this about her and yet he didn't run away.

Dr. Jessi Gold: It's very different than Taisa's relationship. He's somebody different that she met later in life. We don't know a lot about that part, but my guess is she doesn't know as much as she should, because when stuff starts to come up, it's really scary to her, as opposed to being like, remember when you used to do that? You're doing that would feel like she told her any of that. So I feel like their relationship was built on like, that didn't happen, where there's some component of the Shauna jeff thing that was like, we were bonded long before. We are bonded by this stuff. We're bonded by jack.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. The whole birthday lunch thing with her parents.

Dr. Jessi Gold: We're bonded by Jackie. I don't know. And so I think maybe she thought he knew some stuff, but not as much. But they didn't really talk about it, but the unspoken stuff was, like, enough to help that relationship sort of survive, where tyes is just never discussed or something very different.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. And as we're talking, I'm just thinking, like, jeff was probably traumatized, too. He was still in school, but he probably has his own stuff that we haven't even seen. Maybe we will someday, but be curious to hear.

Dr. Jessi Gold: No way. He doesn't have some. They have to, at some point, basically throw them funerals. 19 months, you say, we lost the plant. They're not coming home. Don't you think that at some point somebody calls it and they have some kind of ritual for them?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: I can't imagine that they don't even.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, at a school wide memorial or something.

Dr. Jessi Gold: They have to have something. And I'm sure the school is not a good situation to be in, let alone when you date two of the people that are there.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Dr. Jessi Gold: He was such a kid. Right? Yeah. There's no way that was fine for the people at home. And it makes you wonder if he's supporting jackie's parents while also in love with shauna and then not able to say that because it's were they even.

Dr. Katrina Furey: In love, or did they just bone him and shauna? Right. They were like teenagers. Stay tuned. Yeah. It is complicated, jesse.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Right?

Dr. Katrina Furey: No, not at all. All of them. Oh, my gosh. And then the whole twist the show takes with, like, is adam somehow involved and manipulating shauna? I was like, yep. Yes, he is. I knew it. And I was like, oh, turns out he is not. Turns out that was a red herring. And now when natalie gets kidnapped at the end, I was like, what is going on? Where did this show go? It just really took a turn.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: I need to watch season one or season two, episode one after this really kind of dark.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Some of that is like, this impermanence of safety or something, where no matter who's in their life, even if they're happy, it's hard to be happy. So technically, Shannon was happy with Adam, but the second she thought there was something bad about what he was doing or he was hurting her, it was like completely 180 being bad and dangerous and no, I have to protect myself. And I think that, again, was very much a trauma reaction, as is the rest of dealing with Adam afterwards.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Call your girl.

Portia Pendleton: I just think so much is so interesting and how she seems to be taking medications regularly from where she works. It seems like it's her specific tracks.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Though, that she would be a PCA but not rise to a higher level. I think just with her personality type, without the crash, I think that tracks and then add in the crash. Right. Don't you think?

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah, I mean, I think she's just doing a job to do a job, and she likes that people are dependent.

Portia Pendleton: On, and she's, like, powerful there for.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Men, and they need her, and she can make them in pain and not in pain and also lackness those situations. Older people sometimes don't have support. And so you're in this situation where you kind of have more power than you should because there's not enough accountability in those places. And so, yeah, it doesn't surprise me she found her way to a place like that at all.

Portia Pendleton: And is this, like, expert online of.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Detectives, like the detective and her bird yeah, I forget the bird's name, but it was great.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, gosh.

Portia Pendleton: So you have started season two. Not really, I guess, talking about what you've seen. But what do you want from season two? Like, where do you want to see it go? What are you interested to see happen? What do you want more of?

Dr. Jessi Gold: I don't know. So you're watching a show about cannibals. So at some point, you wonder where that comes from and what happens to change that and how they get there. You wonder who the person they're chasing is.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes.

Dr. Jessi Gold: At the end of their first season, we also know somebody prominent dies. So you're also curious how they all react around that. And so I think you want to know that. I think you want to know. I don't know that I want to watch. It's so weird because it's like you're watching a show where you know that's the premise, but it's like, do you really want to watch that? And it's, like, not really. It's super uncomfortable to think about. But you do want to know how they get there and what happens. I think that is something I'm interested in psychologically. I think that how they get home and stuff like that. I hope we see eventually, but I would assume it's not this season because they already renewed for three. So at some point, they're not going to do that. Right. Rescuing seems very end of show to me. Or close to end of show, how that happens.

Dr. Katrina Furey: We could have a whole season with them trying to do group therapy.

Portia Pendleton: I think it could take forever.

Dr. Katrina Furey: It could, yeah. I think it's going to take, like, a darker, mystical turn in, like, Travis's Murder. But I would like to see season three just devoted to therapy.

Dr. Jessi Gold: From a mental health perspective. There's a lot they could do if they wanted. Right? You hope that some of it's there, because for me, watching, I'm, like, I think it's really helpful for people to feel seen by these different characters and there's different reactions to the same thing, because we all have that. No matter what, the same thing is, like, families reacting to family trauma, all of us reacting to COVID, whatever it is, we all react differently. And I think it helps that the portrayals of PTSD are not just like the same sexual assault and military and flashbacks and hyper vigilance, and there's more to it, and that helps people go like, oh, maybe that's what I'm dealing with. But at the same time, from our side of things, it'd be really nice if someone actually got treatment. Very dysfunctional, and that's part of it. But maybe one of the people on the team isn't maybe Van. We don't know what Van is doing. We don't know if there's anybody else. Right. Where's the coach? There's these people that you wonder people are, and you're like, did somebody get help? And can they model? That would have been a way to come back from this, right?

Dr. Katrina Furey: A healthy way right away.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Because I think people get super scared about trauma therapy. Like, I can't relive that whole thing. I just got out of there. You absolutely can't make me keep saying that over and over. Like, they don't want to go to trauma therapy for that reason. And I think that's also important as like a resistance thing to talk about. But you'd hope that from our side things somewhere they at least discuss why they didn't or right. What was going on with people from resistance side and why that's valid, that sort of thing.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. I would love to see that when.

Dr. Jessi Gold: You watch TV as a psychic. I know.

Dr. Katrina Furey: It's so true. It's so true. Yeah. And I also think it's important to put out there that there are forms of trauma therapy where you don't have to rehash the event over and over and over and over. I think you're spot on. A lot of people are really scared to come to therapy because they think that's what they're going to be expected to do. And a lot of times, as people are kind of getting more comfortable in therapy, I try to gently talk about how they are reliving it over and over and over just when they're not wanting to, and somehow that's how the therapy can help. But just to put it out there, you don't always have to go through your trauma narrative every time.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Wow.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Jesse, I don't know if I should thank you for having us watch this show. I mean, it's very dark, but really enjoyable.

Dr. Jessi Gold: What do you want to talk about? I was like, this is the most mental health, interesting show I've watched in a while. And for better or worse, right? There's always good and bad things, and there's always things that could be better. And I'd love people to consult people.

Dr. Katrina Furey: More so that they were I know.

Dr. Jessi Gold: And we are a lot of things and lived experience, and I get it. And we have that same conflict all the time on social media. I get it. But I do think that when you're like, what do you want to talk about? For me, has been the most interesting show in a long time to think about from our perspective, the person that we are mutually friends with. And I talk about the show a lot, and so I think that was, like, an obvious suggestion from.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I have to say I was surprised. I was like, oh, Dr. Wilkins.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah. I mean, don't be confused by the.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Exterior.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Bubbliness and the heels and the necklaces. She watches some good stuff.

Dr. Katrina Furey: We all do. We all do. Well, again, we are so grateful that you spent your time with us today talking about the show. I agree. It was really a good watch. I inhaled it.

Portia Pendleton: Excellent acting, excellent cast.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Yeah. There really isn't a better cast, which is also true. They did this thing where they're like, pulling on your own nostalgia. Yes. Christina region.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes.

Dr. Jessi Gold: We're just amazing. And then on top of it, they look exactly I know the casting was sick. There's not a lot of sometimes you're like, I mean, I see it from but you're like, oh. And they practice mimicking each other's perfect. And think about what would be different in the future versus now. And they do. That part is, like, phenomenal.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Wouldn't you love? Yeah, I know. I was just thinking, like, I want to be involved in that. Like, if anyone wants to consult us for season two or three, give us a call or I guess DM or whatever the kids do these days.

Portia Pendleton: Phenomenal.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Just do reach. Send me a carrier pigeon or a smoke signal. Like, here you go. Well, thank you so much, Jesse. Again, we so appreciate your time. Is there anything else you want to add before we wrap up?

Dr. Jessi Gold: I don't think so. I look forward to coming back to talk.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. Oh, my God.

Portia Pendleton: Please.

Dr. Katrina Furey: We would love that.

Dr. Jessi Gold: Season two, steady, quick on the intensity. If anyone who's listening is already started.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I know. Seriously, we would love to have you back. We would love to have you be like our yellow jackets field. Correspondent. It's cool to know that there's other psychiatrists and mental health professionals out there who share our love of the media and wanting to just put out factual info based on these depictions, good and bad.

Portia Pendleton: Yeah, well, thanks again and make sure that you also follow Jesse on Instagram and TikTok at Dr. Jesse. Dr. Jesse.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And then follow us at Analyze scripts. I think we have a TikTok now.

Portia Pendleton: Yeah, we did yesterday. All right, well, thank you and thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Sunday.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Bye bye. This podcast and its contents are a copyright of Analyzed Scripts. All rights reserved. Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited. Unless you want to share it with your friends and rate review and subscribe, that's fine. All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings or products is intended or should be inferred. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening and see you next time. Bye.