Analyze Scripts

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we chat about the adorable 2015 Disney/Pixar animated film "Inside Out." We love all of these characters and were so impressed at how well this movie depicted the development of psychological ambivalence in a pre-teen. In this episode, we comment on the humorous portrayal of various cognitive processes including memory, dejavu, and dreaming. We also touch on neuroplasticity and resiliency as it relates to trauma experienced in childhood. That leads us to reflect on what it's been like to work with patients of all ages through the COVID-19 pandemic, and our plea to Disney to release a sequel about Riley living through the pandemic. We hope you enjoy!

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Portia Pendleton: Hi.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. I'm here, as always, with my co host, Dr. Katrina A. Fury, a psychiatrist. And I am Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker practicing as a therapist. Yes, we're really excited to dive into today's episode. We both watched me for the first time, you for the first time at the movie Inside Out. Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: Disney Pixar movie. Yeah. I've seen this movie a bazillion times, but I love it every single time. And I remember I first saw it when it came out a couple of years back. I was just going into my second year of psych residency at Yale, and me and a couple of my co residents went to the movie theater together and watched this all together. And it was so great. And I thought it was such a great depiction of emotion and development, and we'll totally get into all of it, but I just really love this movie.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Do you remember talking about it or what you guys thought right after? Did anything stick with you? Anything that anybody said or like?

Portia Pendleton: I think so much of it. I think we loved the depiction of the different types of memory. And when they're on the train trying to get back to Riley's what do they call it? The control center or something. Just, like, going through the different lands of the brain. And it was so well done. One thing I remember we all talked about was, like, I wonder how they came up with the five main emotions because they were anger, disgust, fear, sadness and joy. And I always thought disgust. That was the one where I was like, I wonder how they came up with that. I remember we sort of spent some time talking about that.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. So just like a little premise. If you haven't seen it, I do recommend it's. Like, short it's silly. I feel like you can pause it and put it back on. But it's about a child who yeah, most of the story takes place when she's in that age range, but you first kind of see her as a baby and the movie kind of goes through her experience with really, I'd say, like, innate basic emotions to developing more complex emotions. Right.

Portia Pendleton: All in the context of a big move, a major life transition when Riley and her family moved from Minnesota to San Francisco. And it was just, like, so well done and just so amazing. I thought even picking her age was spot on. I feel like we go from seeing her have these five primitive, very separate emotions to being able to start integrating different feelings and hold on to them at the same time. And that's, like, exactly around the time, I think, psychologically that would be able to happen. And just throwing in the move and how that sort of disrupts her feelings and showing the tension between her own inner feelings and what she thinks her parents want her to feel and then rebelling a little bit at the end.

Dr. Katrina Furey: It was just so great.

Portia Pendleton: I really loved it. It was such a unique concept, an interesting premise and way to depict psychological development in childhood as you move into adolescence.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And what really does I think it just gives kids and adults, like, a really good picture of what happens in your brain. I like to think of it, and I feel like it would be nice to even explain maybe to some people, maybe, I guess a little bit younger, but I think adults, too, that this is what happens. It's more like technical and it's not as pretty. Our brains are like, gray, but the control center with the emotions kind of working together or sometimes in conflict.

Portia Pendleton: Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And then how our memories are stored and them directing each way. That is what happened.

Portia Pendleton: Right. And I think it does give language and imagery to little kids about this stuff. And I've heard children say depict their.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Anger, their turning red, just like that guy.

Portia Pendleton: And I just think it's so great. I just loved it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: So, Inside Out also has a pretty all star cast. And I think some of the voices I recognized but couldn't place. And now that we kind of took a deep dive into that, I'm like.

Portia Pendleton: Oh, my gosh, I love them. We have Amy Poehler, who plays kind.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Of the main lead, which is Joy, which is perfect.

Portia Pendleton: Like, what a perfect casting.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Her voice, her cadence, her tone. I feel like it's very joyful. Very joyful.

Portia Pendleton: She was great.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And then we have Mindy Kaling, who did the Disgust characters. Her I didn't place at all. If I listened back, I probably would. And she did a great job, too, right? It was perfect.

Portia Pendleton: And then we have bill hader as fear. That one I didn't place till I looked it up and I was like, so great. They're just so perfect. And Louis Black is Anger, who is, like, one of my favorites. Again, I really love the depiction of Anger, and I'm so curious about how different creative people put Anger into imagery and words and everything. Whoops.

Dr. Katrina Furey: You liked angry man. Shrink too.

Portia Pendleton: That's interesting. Yeah, I like that. And then who else did we have for Sadness? We had the woman from The Office that you were really excited about.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay, if you have seen The Office, you know how her voice is. And so, please, if you have not seen Inside Out, like, just picture her character and her tone and how she talks just as this little short blue blob of sadness.

Portia Pendleton: I know.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Walking around and, oh, I didn't mean to do that. She's perfect for the role.

Portia Pendleton: And also, the way they drew these five main emotions were also perfect. We have joy. He's, like, taller and wearing this bright blue dress, and I think she's got, like, blue hair and she's, like, bopping around all zoom. Zoo, zoo, zooming. Everywhere we have sadness. The little blue, your blob with glasses and a turtleneck. And then we have discussed who's green and kind of like, sassy and wearing jewelry, and her hair is a little flippy. And then anger is like a big red square. And then fear is just this little string bean. String bean of something that could just.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Melt into the floor, right?

Portia Pendleton: And I was just like, It's so great.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I love it.

Portia Pendleton: And then the human characters were also really interesting and pivotal. So we have Diane Lane, who voiced Riley's mom. We had Kyle McLaughlin, who voiced Riley's dad. And then Riley herself was played by an actress named Caitlin Diaz. And they've all been in a lot of different movies and TV shows themselves. So it really was an all star cast.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: Oh, and how could I forget Bing Bong? What did you think about Bing Bong?

Dr. Katrina Furey: So Bing Bong was the imaginary friend, right? So I thought his character was so sweet. The only time I got a little teary eyed was in the movie where I think Bing Bong kind of realizes that he's supposed to kind of fade into your childhood experience and not kind of follow you to adolescence. So he helps Joy get back to the main switchboard so she can help Riley help Riley out.

Portia Pendleton: Yeah, I know. So beautiful. So Bing Bong was played by Richard Kind, who is an actor that I wouldn't know that name off the top of my head, but I know him. Like, when I look at him and he voices all these different funny characters, like on Curb Your Enthusiasm, Mad About You, he's just really a funny comedian. Yeah. So where do we start?

Dr. Katrina Furey: So I liked the first scene a lot because I feel like it's really kind of accurate with what babies see. So it's like the first emotion that kind of shows up as Joy, right. And it's like you're kind of awe at the world. You don't see very well, but you can see your parents faces. Right. They're really close to you and they're really happy. They're smiling. And then I think that was just like a really beautiful moment. And then very quickly yeah. I think sadness comes in.

Portia Pendleton: I thought it was anger, like, when she starts crying, maybe it was sad and I don't know which one of those.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And it was just like, a lot. Someone took over, right? Changing my diaper. I'm hungry. That's how I get my need met. I don't know how to speak.

Portia Pendleton: It was so funny and how they showed I'm taking over so quickly, like, at the switchboard, I just loved. And I love the parents reactions, too.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. So I just really liked that scene in general. I thought it was really accurate again, and kind of a good introduction to all the characters and how the emotions kind of show up at different stages of early early development.

Portia Pendleton: Right? Early super early development.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Total fear, right? Like, fear is really appropriate because it does keep us safe. It helps kids. I think she was like hopping over a cord, which again, is like, safe.

Portia Pendleton: But to a child that age.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Was like, warning her. And then Disgust came in and was like I think it was funny about the broccoli. What is this? It's green. I can't take this. She has a temper tantrum.

Portia Pendleton: Then also like, yeah. And then how that carries over to when they're in San Francisco, they thought like, oh, let's go get some pizza. This will be safe. Riley brings that up. She can tell her parents are stressed because the moving van doesn't show up and there's fighting, and she's like, let's.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Go get some pizza.

Portia Pendleton: Then they show up and it's like, San Francisco probably like vegan broccoli pizza. And I remember Anger was like, they.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Can'T even get pizza right here. Yeah, it was so sweet. So I think just knowing about child brain development, I think we could go off on a really long tangent here that I will try to shorten. But I really wanted to kind of just talk about child brain elasticity and why children can be so resilient. Their brain is still forming. They're still making all these connections in their synapses.

Portia Pendleton: They're all fire science words.

Dr. Katrina Furey: So I think that was really cool. And then when we see later on in the movie, we see the long term memories, like shapes, and it looks like yes, it looks like a brain.

Portia Pendleton: The sulci and the Gyrie of the brain. Exactly.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I know.

Portia Pendleton: And then when they had all the memories, there as these beautiful little glows that all had at the beginning, like one color. It was like one main color. It was like yellow for Joy, blue for Sadness, green for Disgust, red for Anger, and then purple for fear, I think. And then as we progress into adolescence, they start being multiple colors. And that's at first when Joy was like, sadness, don't touch this. You're going to ruin the core memory. And sadness is like, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. And that tension between Joy and Sadness the whole time. Chefs kiss moi. Wow. And then the fact that at the end, sadness was the hero of the day. Being able to sit with your authentic feelings in this big move and missing your friends and approaching adolescents, it was so beautiful.

Dr. Katrina Furey: There was a powerful moment with Sadness comforting. Was it Bing Bong?

Portia Pendleton: I think so.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And Bing Bong was really upset, crying. And then Sadness sat down and offered her ear. And it was just like, yeah, that's really sad. And Joy, up until this point, was really trying to avoid right. Like, any uncomfortable emotions, specifically Sadness feeling. It like, as unhealthy.

Portia Pendleton: It's going to hurt Riley.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. And so Joy at that moment was like, whoa, how did you do that? Because Bing bong is like, be able to regulate himself after sadness helps him. And sadness was just like, yeah, I just sat with him and I was sad.

Portia Pendleton: And again, that's what we all need to learn, right, is that it's okay to feel sad or any of these other authentic feelings and a big mix of all the emotions and to sit with it and validate. Even when she got on Bing Bong's level, it's like, such a good depiction. And again, Joy, I feel like if Riley developed with Joy still steering the ship the whole time, you could totally see her turn into a toxic, positivity type of person. Can't acknowledge any sadness. Like, has to turn away from it all the time. It's just so beautiful. I really loved it. And I loved the depiction of the different types of memory we have, like, long term memory, short term memory facts. I loved the bubblegum jingle, how it just pops into your head even if you don't want it. Do you have a jingle in my head?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. Do you have a commercial or like, a song?

Portia Pendleton: Because I totally have, like, five. Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey: What are yours? So the JG. Wentworth commercial call JG. Wentworth. Don't you ever forget that.

Portia Pendleton: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And then the one from a long time ago that was like, education connection, connected for free education. Oh, yeah. Yes.

Portia Pendleton: About, like, connecting you to colleges and stuff.

Dr. Katrina Furey: It's a song that I'm sure I knew the entire thing at one point, but I'm such a music hook person where I think that's too, why they Make US, which this made me think of it when they were in Long Term Memory, and the cleanup crew comes in and they're throwing away some of the presidents. Let's keep Lincoln. Let's keep George Washington. I was like, that's so relatable. But I learned a song when I was little to remember the presidents, so I remember probably like, the first ten. It's like washington Adams, jefferson madison Monroe, jackson moon veron. And then I don't remember.

Portia Pendleton: Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey: But songs are helpful in memory, for sure.

Portia Pendleton: That's so funny. And I love that depiction of how certain songs and things like that get stuck in your memory and how they were thinking about getting rid of that, but they didn't, and it would come.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Up at other points. A little cleanup crew thinks it's funny. They're like, we'll send up this jingle to Main Central office, and they all of a sudden get that memory up to it. It was just do you see, like.

Portia Pendleton: The parents also hearing it in their own version of The Emotions? I love the parents having their own versions. Like when they were at the table, like, in their first night in their apartment, or not the first night, but trying to talk to Riley. And she's, like, really cranky after that day of school and how the hockey trials didn't go well. And mom is trying to signal a dad like, I need some help here. She's a real cranky. And you see the mom's emotions being like, oh, send the signal to dad. Oh, he's not getting it. Why do we give up that? I don't know. Brazilian music?

Dr. Katrina Furey: And then they show him. So they project this past love to Mom's vision in front of dad so she can tolerate dad, it feels like. And I thought it was funny, or I noticed that all the emotions in mom and Dad's brain all had like, the same hairstyle, like the adult versions. Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: And then when dad finally gets the hint and he's like, so, Riley, how was your day? And all the mom feelings are like.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, God, we just asked that. Jerry responded poorly.

Portia Pendleton: Yeah. No, I thought that's so funny. I just loved it. And then when Dad's anger and Riley's anger are both, like, coming together, I loved it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: Some other things I loved about the depiction of memory was how they have to go down again, the windy hallways to try to sort of crawl their way out. And then how Joy, like, when she was trying at the beginning to get Sadness to go away so she could save the day, she was like, here's, Sadness, read this. It's like this huge binder about memory storage or something, and it just conveys how complicated it is. And it is super complicated. And it's like Joy would not read it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Portia Pendleton: And then later on, it turns out, was really helpful that Sadness did read it and knew kind of like, what.

Dr. Katrina Furey: To do or where to go.

Portia Pendleton: I really liked that, too.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, no, I think it was wonderful. Something that I thought of that wasn't really like in the movie, but made me just kind of reflect on is that I got the sense that it made me think about trauma and how, to a degree, all children and babies start out more on the same page and only really different by genetics. Right. So it's like you have your own genetic makeup, et cetera, and then it's like, we're putting different environments.

Portia Pendleton: Unless the pregnancy was tough or the delivery is tough, could already start the trauma.

Dr. Katrina Furey: That's true.

Portia Pendleton: Cortisol firing and things like that. Yeah, but I hear what you're saying. I think I know where you're going here.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Again, it's like you have the opportunity, literally, maybe at birth, a little bit different. Totally. Good point. And then it's like all these things.

Portia Pendleton: Can happen to you at different stages and ages.

Dr. Katrina Furey: So whether it's really positive experiences, really scary experiences, but it's like all of those things we think of, like, right, nature versus nurture impact us. So I think that if Riley in the movie hadn't been able to speak with parents or parents hadn't been as supportive or nurturing or able to provide that level of connection, it's really a beautiful moon. They're all hugging at the end. And Riley is then able to share really difficult things, but then she feels better.

Portia Pendleton: I know when she was able to say, like, I know you want me to be happy, but I'm so sad.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And that's huge for so huge young child to be able to verbalize and then to have a really positive response, right? So I think it's like this movie did a good job at showing, ideally, and what does happen a lot, but when it doesn't happen, that's when our kind of predisposition validated might kind of be triggered. Specifically eating disorder treatment. I'm thinking of, like, we say often that genetics loads the gun and your environment can pull the trigger. So it's like if she had a predisposition, maybe for depression or anxiety, it's like something like this could really bring that to the surface versus just like a situational, right? Like she's sad, like this difficult change. So that's what I was kind of like carrying through the movie. And then it just made me think of even more so, like the Aces study. So all environmental stressors and traumas that.

Portia Pendleton: We can go through that make us.

Dr. Katrina Furey: More likely to experience mental health disorders, medical issues, 100%.

Portia Pendleton: And on that note, as a little teaser for a future episode, I think we should watch this movie called The Florida Project. Did you ever see that?

Dr. Katrina Furey: No.

Portia Pendleton: And talk about the Asus study because it's a very different movie from Inside Out where they show a lot of trauma that a young child is exposed to. And anyway, stay tuned if you want something a little less light hearted down the road. Another thing I love and 100% Portia, I love that point. I also love that they didn't like the parents weren't perfect at this. That they really did show sort of that tension within Riley between feeling like she needs to kind of be, quote, unquote, strong and happy for the family and for her dad. And her mom kind of says that directly at one point. And then it's sort of like, thank you so much for making this easier. And how that puts so much pressure on a kid. Again, not she wasn't intending to.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Portia Pendleton: It was meant to be, I think, like an acknowledgment of how, quote, unquote, well she'd been doing and appreciation. But it just shows like that tension between Riley's authentic feelings and the feelings she feels like her parents want her to have. And again, so beautiful that the parents didn't just do it perfectly right from.

Dr. Katrina Furey: The start, but that they were able to get there.

Portia Pendleton: And again, that they handled her rebellion with stealing the money and getting on the bus in a nurturing way. They didn't immediately chastise her or punish her or yell at her or put their own big feelings, which understandably would get triggered in a situation like that ahead of hers. They were like so glad she was safe, right? Wanted to know what was going on. And then hopefully did have some kind of consequence that felt appropriate. It shouldn't be without consequence, but at least my opinion. But they were really able to meet her where she was out there, which is beautiful. Yeah. What did you think about at the beginning when Joy and Sadness were going back and forth over their recollections of the same event in the past?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes.

Portia Pendleton: When Sadness was feeling so sad. And so all of the globes, or whatever you want to call them, started, like, having a blue hue. And Joy is like, think of something happy. Think about this or that or something. And sadness is like, oh, I do love the rain. And Joy is like, oh, yeah, jump in the puddles, splash around.

Dr. Katrina Furey: It's so much fun.

Portia Pendleton: She's like, I really like just standing there when the water fills my boots.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And runs down my back and I get really cold.

Portia Pendleton: Really cold.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And then she was like, oh, yeah, I remember that movie when the dog died, and Joy was like, don't think of it. But that's sadness.

Portia Pendleton: I know. And then at the end, that Core Memory, when she starts to kind of lose the different islands, family Island, Friendship Island, hockey island, when they sort of remember that Core Memory together, that it wasn't just like someone scored the winning goal or didn't.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Portia Pendleton: It turns out that Riley was really sad, but then her team sort of came around her and helped her feel better. And that's such a beautiful, simplistic, common type of childhood experience to kind of learn how to integrate your emotions and hold on to two conflicting feelings simultaneously.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Because then she was using Anger to play hockey, which was like a really appropriate way to get out some aggression or some of that energy. And so it's like anger was allowed. Right. But it wasn't just Joy all the time. Right.

Portia Pendleton: And I loved that they showed a girl playing hockey like a really aggressive sport.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I just loved I loved it.

Portia Pendleton: You probably didn't. But also on Disney Plus, when you watch a movie, then they'll recommend other things.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Sure.

Portia Pendleton: So, of course I have watched all of them because I have kids and they have, like, a little short where it's like, Riley going on a date, and that's really adorable.

Dr. Katrina Furey: That's cute.

Portia Pendleton: Because I loved at the end, or toward the end when they're trying to get back and they use her crush, I would die for Riley. They multiply and use them as a ladder. And then near the end, when she bumps into a boy and you see.

Dr. Katrina Furey: The boys, I thought it was hilarious and so sweet. It's like all the alarms are going.

Portia Pendleton: Girls, guys.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. In his brain. And it's like they don't know what to do. He's like, frozen.

Portia Pendleton: And then Riley's like, okay, bye. At the very end. I think the last line just cracks me up when they're like, Joy's like, everything's great now. What could go wrong. We're making friends, we're twelve. Like, what could go wrong? And you're just thinking like, puberty is.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Coming and they have a puberty button on the screen and they're like, what's that? It hasn't gone off yet.

Portia Pendleton: Just wait, just wait. That was so perfect. I would love to see a sequel about puberty. Like, oh my God, I would love to see that. That would be good.

Dr. Katrina Furey: But you made a good point about the parenting not being perfect, because I think what happened to Riley initially, before there was kind of that repair is like a really common experience, I think, in childhood, many people and it's not like a trauma or this big event or these little misinterpretations where it's like if you had gone back and asked a parent, is this what you meant? They would be like, no, my gosh, of course not. I'm so sorry that that's what you thought, but us wanting you to be strong was just like our hope. We didn't want to put that on you. I imagine them saying, but that happens a lot. People have a hard time talking about their parents, especially guilty.

Portia Pendleton: Love them. I hear a lot. Like I felt bad about what I said last time and it's usually when they're expressing anger, fear, shame, sadness, things like that. I think that's what I was wondering about the five main emotions. Why did they pick disgust over something like shame? The disgust emotion was the one where I was like, I don't know if that would have been the fifth one I would have picked. What about you?

Dr. Katrina Furey: I feel like they tried to frame it as it was also keeping Riley safe, they said, from being poisoned, like hob broccoli. But I feel like to me it could have been fear's job.

Portia Pendleton: Yeah, that's what I mean. Fear were kind of but I think.

Dr. Katrina Furey: They should have included shame. That would have been nice. But I feel like shame is so complex for kids. I don't think it is for adults. I still can feel shame as a kid, but I feel like maybe you.

Portia Pendleton: Don'T have the words at that age yet. And as I was saying that, I was thinking like, well, maybe they were thinking about what are primitive emotions?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Disgust is primitive, right? Showed anything. Something like raw. Even animals, animals know.

Portia Pendleton: Maybe these are like the main primitive feelings. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, I'll give them a pass for that. Some other things I loved, I loved the night shift when they would change over to the night and she's dreaming. And I loved that her dreams as like a twelve, 1112 year old girl are like about unicorn princesses and her teacher and being at school and all these things, just how they depict it, dreaming, and how sometimes it incorporates what you went through that day and all the feelings that come up and then like dancing uniforms.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I just thought it was like so and when she was a little girl in early childhood, I liked how they showed when she was jumping over furniture, actually lava. And it was like your imagination is so big, powerful and real when you're a child. So it's not that you are seeing lava on the floor, but your imagination is so powerful that you really can feel it.

Portia Pendleton: And that even goes into with Bing Bong and how excited Joy was to see Bing have so much fun and just showing all the ways that Riley would play with Her Majesty friend again, as an only child, I thought that was an interesting choice as well. And then how while Bing Bong had to have the realization that he had to stay behind for Riley to grow, it was almost like her core emotions had to be able to tap into her inner child in order to grow.

Dr. Katrina Furey: It was just so beautiful.

Portia Pendleton: I loved it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I thought it was just like an excellent I think you should watch this in grad school or any psychology psychiatry.

Portia Pendleton: In middle school and they teach you about sex and it's always awkward and weird. Like you could also watch this as.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Part of that curriculum of development.

Portia Pendleton: Maybe we introduced this in fourth grade. It's real easy for kids to understand. I think kids really resonate with it. But again, because you're seeing these really complex emotions depicted in a movie with imagery and jokes and all this stuff and kids at Riley's age mostly wouldn't really have the words to say to her parents. Like, actually, I feel this way and when you say I'm strong, it makes me feel confused. Or this way. Like, again, they don't have the words. So it's just so I just loved it. They were on the train and the whole thing like, well, what are these? This is facts, this is fiction. Oh, who cares? We just mix it up. We don't have to keep it organized. Just like funny little jokes like that. We're so smart and witty. I loved it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. I laughed at the fact versus opinion. That's what it was in a box. And they all look the same.

Portia Pendleton: Just mix them up. What else?

Dr. Katrina Furey: I thought it was interesting to have the memory dump, right? And where we forget things. But I think it's also interesting or just something to reflect on, is that it's still to a degree in there somewhere, right? So you can be triggered and all of a sudden have this memory or have a little bit of almost, which I think is such an interesting concept. Like deja vu, right? You have this deja vu yes. Feeling based on a smell. You're like, oh, there's something I remember about this and you can't quite touch on it. Again, not in the words that I'm using, but referenced that they did.

Portia Pendleton: I love that, the deja vu reference. And I thought they picked just such poignant cognitive functions to portray.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Portia Pendleton: Like, obviously they don't depict everything, but the ones that they did and when they used the ones like humor fact versus opinion. Sorry. When they used deja vu fact versus opinion to really be humorous. But on point, I just loved it. It was so funny.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I had heard one time that deja vu or someone who experiences a lot of deja vu is like an older soul, and you've been here before many times, and someone who doesn't experience it a lot, like, is new. I kind of like interesting way to think about it. I've heard. What else? If you have a lot of deja vu, you're way more open. You're more, like, empathic. You're more just, like, have a lot of self awareness. You might not be a great human, I don't know, but you just feel like you're open to things, and then if you don't, it's like you're closed. I think it's just interesting how people perceive it. Besides, I guess, the definition of it.

Portia Pendleton: That makes me wonder if there's any neuroscience that's looked into that. I bet there is now. I kind of want to go look it up. If we find any, maybe we'll again, try to put it in the show notes. I don't know what that means.

Dr. Katrina Furey: We'll try people link their merch to it. So I feel like it's got to just be a link.

Portia Pendleton: Okay, maybe we can make some merch for deja vu. Be like, you bought this before, buy it again.

Dr. Katrina Furey: That's funny.

Portia Pendleton: Do you have a lot of deja vu? I feel like I don't really I.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Feel like I used to, and I don't know what that means, but I feel like I used to have deja vu very frequently and would say that to my mom or my partner or a friend and just be like, oh, I have feel deja vu right now. I haven't lately. And I don't know. Just even thinking of brain development, right. Like, my brain is less elastic as it was years ago. I don't know if that decreases it. Again, thinking about more of, like, a neuro approach to it.

Portia Pendleton: That's interesting.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Or I'm something.

Portia Pendleton: You'Re closing that door. Is there anything else about this movie you want to talk about or not?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Then that just everyone should see it.

Portia Pendleton: I know, I'm really curious.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Adorable. Get people's perspective on it, you know what I mean? I just think it would be interesting for patients to watch it for friends, family, just and what they take.

Portia Pendleton: I'm curious. I feel like this is the kind of movie that on an inpatient psychiatric unit of all ages, honestly, but especially probably kids and teens. This would be a great one to have on, like, in the Milieu, which is that's like a fancy word for just saying, like, the common area. But don't you think that would be like, a great one to have on? It's just so great. And I really want to start a GoFundMe or something for a sequel about puberty.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. I think that we got like a three second approach with the boy and his brain.

Portia Pendleton: I was just like, but you know what? We really need Portia, and honestly, maybe this is our call to task with this podcast is a sequel about living through COVID as an adolescent. Don't we need that? Don't all the teens need it? There's such a huge mental health crisis right now. We need it. Disney we really need it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I feel like every intake I have with a younger person, I'd say like 22 and under. And I know obviously it affects older people, but I think it's really interesting to see how COVID impacted youth and college students because it was so I think when you're an adult, things tend to be a little bit more stable, right. Or the same.

Portia Pendleton: Your frontal lobes, the part of our brain that makes us human and helps us with our cognition, decision making stuff, doesn't finish developing like 25, 30.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: So, like middle school, right?

Dr. Katrina Furey: Like middle school is so important. High school is so important. College can be so important, right. For specific developmental milestones. So to miss about two years, really, I think, like the end of one. So I was kind of reflecting on it with someone recently who's, like, freshman year of college, went home and did not come back in March and never came back. And then the following year their school did online only. So it's like they missed two full years of what to me, and again, are developmentally such important times. I know adult we have been impacted in many other ways by COVID, and we could go on and on about that, but I think it's very unique to younger people in the context of.

Portia Pendleton: Their development and also unique that it happened to all of them.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

Portia Pendleton: It was happening because of a trauma, right? Like a very scary, life threatening time that as a middle schooler, high schooler, how is your brain making sense of why you have to stay home and why mom and dad are scared and why you're doing school online? And I will say I found, like, some people, especially, like kids who were being bullied or have a lot of social anxiety or things like that, really thrived in that break from daily peer interactions. But I think on the whole, Gosh just so disruptive and social media, it's just like I feel like we're just going to be seeing the effects for the rest of our lives and careers, honestly. I think so. Disney we really, really need a sequel about coming through COVID.

Dr. Katrina Furey: COVID did impact every single student in the United States. Whether it was just fear, whether it was online learning, whatever it was, everyone.

Portia Pendleton: Impacted everyone's experience and impact it have will be different. But it was there, right? Did you ever learn about the what was they called? The gaff score where they would try to rank stressful life events. We used to use it like in the Er when you'd be evaluating someone and trying to think about what are their psychosocial stressors, there's some researcher out there who wants to quantify it. So they did some kind of research study and then assigned points to different stressors and death. Divorce and moving were like the top three. So these were positive stressors, like having a baby and then also negative stressors and just did back in the day, I guess people used to actually tally it up and put a Gaff score in your note and that would help gauge, like if you go to inpatient or outpatient or things like that. We kind of stopped doing that, but it was really helpful to sort of keep that in mind. Structures COVID is like top of the list now, right? For literally everyone. Even if you're generally doing okay, it's still there.

Dr. Katrina Furey: We're coming up. Yes, coming up. I think really interestingly in ways that I with all of my patients, whether it's like just reflecting on why you kind of got catapulted into this mental disorder around that time interesting what's that about? Or having parents kind of lose it during COVID and then make decisions that then impacted my patient or something like that. So I think a lot of stuff keeps coming back to that time. I think emotions or anything that you were going through separate from COVID during COVID maybe got even shuttered. And now it's like things are coming out. It comes up everywhere.

Portia Pendleton: Everywhere. It's interesting. I don't know if you're finding this, but now that we're closer to three years from when it's also hard to believe where we were three years ago. I think about that sometimes. But just now when people are noticing having reactions this time of year, or people are starting to travel more and maybe have anxiety about that when they didn't. And I'm finding a lot of people don't recognize that you live through Coat. Let's not forget that part. So usually I remind them and I say, even if this isn't at the front of your mind, if you're not worried about do I wear a mask or not? It's still there. And of course it's going to affect you. And you might just notice feeling different about traveling or something than you did before. So I really want to petition Disney to make a sequel.

Dr. Katrina Furey: I feel like the kids need it.

Portia Pendleton: Like the kids need it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Kids need something, I think, to make sense of and just kind of not that it's Disney's job, but just something to help them process.

Portia Pendleton: But Disney does such a good job with this stuff.

Dr. Katrina Furey: And not that it's not this ongoing issue, but just some way to formulize or identify, make it concrete. Yes, just like this movie did with.

Portia Pendleton: These typical developmental things. What a hard concept. Friendship changes, integrating complex feelings and being able to sit with it. It isn't Disney's job, but Disney's, like, really good at this stuff, and they have the budget.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.

Portia Pendleton: So maybe I'll write them a letter today. We'll see.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, thank you for listening. We hope that you enjoy the hearing about Inside Out. It's really fun, I think. Watch it again if you've seen it. I just think it's great.

Portia Pendleton: And please sign our change petition in the show notes.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes. So make sure you're following us on Instagram at Analyze Scripts. Make sure you send us an email if you'd like to chat or give us some ideas at analyze scriptpodcast at gmail. Make sure that you are subscribing to us on Apple Music and Spotify and wherever else you find your podcast. And I think that's all of that.

Portia Pendleton: That's it.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Stay tuned. See you next Monday.

Portia Pendleton: All right, bye bye.

Dr. Katrina Furey: This podcast and its contents are a copyright of Analyzed Scripts.

Portia Pendleton: All rights reserved.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited. Unless you want to share it with.

Portia Pendleton: Your friends and rate review and subscribe, that's fine.

Dr. Katrina Furey: All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings, or products is intended.

Portia Pendleton: Or should be inferred.

Dr. Katrina Furey: This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.

Dr. Katrina Furey: Our channel.