Work with Purpose: A podcast about the Australian Public Sector

On today’s episode of Work with Purpose, Danielle Wood, Chair of the Productivity Commission, reflects on how the Commission’s role has evolved—from her early days as a graduate to leading its national reform agenda.As Australia faces slower growth and rising complexity, how can public policy adapt to deliver long-term productivity and social progress?Danielle joins host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, to discuss how the commission continues to provide rigorous, independent advice in the public interest while expanding its focus to the care economy, First Nations policy, and Closing the Gap. She also explores the challenges of lifting productivity in the service sector, the slower impact of new technologies, the importance of diversity in economic leadership, and how to deliver frank advice that drives long-term reform.Key tips:Embed Closing the Gap priorities into your policy and program design to help drive meaningful, long-term changeChampion diversity in economics to ensure a broader range of perspectives and better policy outcomesValue independent advice as a cornerstone of good governance, even when it challenges the status quo.Show notesQuarterly productivity bulletin – March 2025 | Productivity CommissionClosing the Gap Review | Productivity Commission

On this episode of Work with Purpose, Sean Innis, author of ‘Of(f) Course Minister’, talks about the principle of responsible government – how it has evolved, drifted and, at times, been corrupted.As the dust settles from the 2025 Australian Federal Election, we take a deep dive into the ins and outs of the relationships between public servants, ministers, and parliament. These relationships may be complex, but at their core, they should be rooted in the principle of responsible government. But what does that actually mean?This time, guest host Kate Driver, CEO of IPAA ACT, talks with Sean Innis about the shifts and changes of public administration and Australia’s parliamentary system based on his new book ‘Of(f) Course Minister’. They discuss how transparency, accountability, and responsible government continue to underpin the work of public servants but also face their fair share of challenges. This includes how the two major parties interpret the public service’s role, the balance between personal and institutional relationships, and the tension between short-term fixes and long-term solutions.Key tips:To build rapport with a minister, watch others and learn from one anotherIf you work with ministers, listen closely to see if there is more opportunity to slow things down and focus on more long-term and deep thinking over quick fixesPrioritise continuity of the public service and how it builds relationships with stakeholders and customers, and drives knowledge and understanding.Show notesOf(f) Course Minister | BooktopiaNorthcote-Trevelyan Report | CivilServant.org.auRoyal Commission on Australian Government Administration: report | Analysis & Policy Observatory

On this episode, Michelle Steele from the Paul Ramsay Foundation talks us through community engagement from a philanthropic and public sector perspective, highlighting the value of listening instead of coming with solutions.When governments engage with communities, it’s usually about a specific program or policy – but what if the first goal was to genuinely listen to the community’s broader needs?On this episode of Work with Purpose, led by host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, Michelle Steele, Chief First Nations Officer at the Paul Ramsey Foundation, draws on her experience working in the public service and philanthropy to explore what the sectors can learn from each other. Michelle also uncovers the power imbalance between funders and communities, and why positive dissent can be crucial to having genuine conversations and slowing down when it’s most needed.Key tips:The philanthropic sector can derisk and scale ideas – make sure to learn from their case studiesFrank and fearless advice applies in community engagement, too. When you engage, make sure you’re open and allow others to be open as wellWhen you try to build consensus, pausing and slowing down isn’t always a bad thing. Make sure you stop to listen. Show notes:First Nations targeted grant round | Paul Ramsay Foundation

On today’s episode of Work with Purpose, Andrew Walter from the Department of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and Professor Anne Tiernan from the McKinnon Institute for Political Leadership unpack the caretaker conventions.The Australian federal election campaign is well underway – this means the Australian Public Service is now in caretaker mode. But what does this mean for the day-to-day work of public servants?Host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, speaks with Andrew Walter, first assistant secretary of the Government Division at PM&C, and Anne Tiernan head of research and Professor of Political Leadership at the McKinnon Institute for Political Leadership, walk us through the basics, and talk about how to navigate political and administrative pitfalls. They also clarify when caretaker mode starts and ends, and how you can handle requests for information from ministers.Key tips:Get in touch your portfolio agency’s caretaker team if you have questions on caretaker conventionsIf you’ve never been through caretaker, familiarise yourself with the guidance and speak to team members who have experienced it beforeIf a minister asks for factual information during caretaker period, you can provide it. However, be careful if it’s not the type of information you ordinarily provide, requires significant resources, or is likely to be used for campaign purposes. When in doubt, seek advice.Show notes:Guidance on caretaker conventions | Department of the Prime Minister & CabinetCaretaker Conventions in Australasia | Jennifer Menzies & Anne Tiernan | ANU PressCaretaker conventions | APS Academy

On this episode of Work with Purpose, we hear from Ray Griggs AO CSC about what working in the navy has taught him about taking and giving feedback, and why difficult conversations are part and parcel of becoming a better leader.Ray Griggs AO CSC looks back at a long and distinguished career in the public sector – from Australia’s Defence Force to most recently the Department of Social Services. Along the way, he navigated many difficult conversations, had his views contested, and at times, had to manage failure. In this conversation with host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, he tells us how these challenges contribute to growing as a leader – and as a human.They also discuss managing large-scale change in complex environments, why you should always do your own fact-checking, and how solutions through new technologies need to be co-designed with Australia’s communities.Key tips:How you respond to people’s views and ideas is crucial. Respond the way you’d like your own leaders to respond to you.Never neglect doing your own fact checking. Once you launch into the process, your credibility can be at risk.Work out how real a timeline is. Sometimes we impose unrealistic timelines on ourselves.ShownotesValedictory: Ray Griggs AO CSC | IPAA ACT

Trigger warning: themes of mental health/sexual assaultRobin Edmonds from the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communication and the Arts and Joey Ballantyne of Grit n Grace Collective talk about neurodiversity, developing a strong sense of self, and supporting people to learn and work in a way that helps them thrive.When Joey Ballantyne, founder of Grit n Grace Collective, speaks about breaking the survive/burnout cycle, and her late autism diagnosis, it comes from the heart. Driven by her own experience, she started her own neuro-affirming professional development program, built to empower atypical women in the workplace.In this special Work with Purpose conversation, Joey and guest host Robin Edmonds, co-chair and co-founder of the Australian Public Sector Neurodiversity Community of Practice and assistant director, Media Reform at the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communication and the Arts, shed light on the experiences of neurodivergent women in the workplace, and the specific challenges they face. They also talk about ways to get to know yourself, and how managers can build inclusive team cultures that benefit everyone.Key tips:Develop a strong sense of self and what you need in a work environment to succeedAs a leader, give agency to your staff to show you how the work best. For example, ask people how they want to receive feedbackBe clear about meeting purposes, take notes, and give people time to process.ShownotesGrit n Grace CollectivePublic Sector Neurodiversity Community of Practice | Australian Public Service Commission2024 APS Census | Australian Public Service Commission

On our second episode of our APS Reform in Action series, we hear from Lisa Bush and Maree Wilson from Geoscience Australia about the power of geospatial data for better decision-making in the public sector.If you want to make better decisions, you need to have quality, trusted data. Unfortunately, critical data can often sit in siloes or be scattered across spreadsheets. Geoscience Australia’s Digital Atlas of Australia steps up to this challenge, providing a unified and accessible data set that can help you build better policies – or decide where you want to build your new home.Lisa Bush, head of Geoscience Australia's National Location Information Branch, and Maree Wilson, Chief of Place and Communities Division, join host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, to talk about making geospatial data more accessible through the Atlas. They also shine a light on how it can improve functions such as social services or emergency management, and enhance data capabilities in the public sector.This series is delivered in partnership with the Australian Public Service Commission.The Digital Atlas of Australia, a collaborative project between Geoscience Australia, the Australian Bureau of Statistics and the Department of Social Services was a finalist for the 2024 IPAA ACT Spirit of Service Awards.Key tips:1.    Geospatial data can help you make decisions in minutes - make the best use of it2.    Don't be afraid to try, you won't need to be a geospatial data expert to use the Atlas3.    If you’re creating or using national data, in your role, reach out to the Digital Atlas team.Show notes:The Digital Atlas of Australia | Geoscience Australia

Returning for part 2 of our new ‘APS Reform in Action’ series, Dr Rachel Bacon and Professor Janine O’Flynn discuss how Australia is learning from other countries’ public service best practice – and vice versa.Wanting to do things better doesn’t always mean you have to re-invent the wheel. In this episode, Dr Rachel Bacon from the Australian Public Service Commission and Professor Janine O’Flynn from ANU Crawford School reveal lessons from overseas and introduce the concept of ‘radical incrementalism’ – making small improvements to achieve a larger goal.Host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, also speaks to our guests about why effective collaboration will remain a key tool to responding to increasingly complex challenges.This series is produced in partnership with the Australian Public Service Commission.Key tips:Instead of aiming for radical change, look for small changes over time.If you want people to collaborate, you need to make it part of their performance assessment.Foster purpose and pride by looking at what works well.Show notesAPS Reform | Australian GovernmentThe Cult of Collaboration in Public Policy | AJPA

Launching our new ‘APS Reform in Action’ series, we hear from Dr Rachel Bacon and Professor Janine O’Flynn about enduring APS Reform and why public trust shouldn’t be taken for granted.The APS Reform Agenda has been a major project for the Australian Public Service over the past years – so, where is it at and where will it go in the future?Dr Rachel Bacon, deputy commissioner, Integrity, Reform and Enabling Services at the Australian Public Service Commission, and Professor Janine O’Flynn, director of the ANU Crawford School of Public Policy, reflect on changes to the Public Service Act, the impact of capability reviews and long-term Insights Briefings, and the value of stewardship.Together with David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, they also talk about protecting the APS as an ongoing institution and maintaining trust with the public, as discourse about the value of public services grows globally.This series is produced in partnership with the Australian Public Service Commission.Key tips:To make change stick, you need a shift in culture, a fresh mindset, capability uplift, and patience.Public trust is not a given – it takes continuous effort to maintain.Stewardship sets the public service apart from the private sector – be an active steward for the service.Show notesAPS Reform | Australian GovernmentPublic Service Amendment Bill | Parliament of AustraliaLong-term Insights Briefings | Australian Public Service CommissionPathways to Positive Public Administration | Edward Elgar