Share

What Next: TBD | Tech, power, and the future
The Internet of Hate
On this week’s If Then, Will Oremus and April Glaser look further into the presidential election in Brazil and how tech has played a role. On Sunday, the far right candidate Jair Bolsanaro was elected President, and many have attributed his victory to misinformation that spread like wildfire through WhatsApp in the months leading up to the election.
And it’s time again for more gadgets. Apple unveiled a new series of gizmos on Tuesday in Brooklyn: there were big changes to the iPad, Macbook Air, and MacMini.
The hosts are also joined by Joan Donovan, the lead researcher at Data & Society, who focuses on hate groups congregate on social media. This conversation, sadly, comes following the horrific terrorist attack on the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh over the weekend. The shooter, Robert Bowers, had been an active user of the free-speech-centric social media platform Gab that has become a kind of digital playpen for neo-Nazi and white supremacists since forming in 2016. Gab went offline Sunday night.
5:43 - Interview with Pablo Ortellado15:11 - Interview with Joan Donovan33:41 - Don’t Close My Tabs
Don’t Close My Tabs:
The New York Times: How Google Protected Andy Rubin, the “Father of Android”
Frontline: The Facebook Dilemma (Part One)
Podcast production by Max Jacobs
If Then plugs:
You can get updates about what’s coming up next by following us on Twitter @ifthenpod. You can follow Will @WillOremus and April @Aprilaser. If you have a question or comment, you can email us at ifthen@slate.com.
If Then is presented by Slate and Future Tense, a collaboration among Arizona State University, New America, and Slate. Future Tense explores the ways emerging technologies affect society, policy, and culture. To read more, follow us on Twitter and sign up for our weekly newsletter.
Listen to If Then via Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or Google Play.
Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.
More episodes
View all episodes

Diving In | How Food Delivery Killed Competition (And Took Your Budget With It)
16:27|Thanks for joining us during the holidays. White our team is taking a break, we want to share a series with you that we think you’ll love. It’s called Diving In. Getting food delivered should be simple — but somehow it's gotten outrageously expensive. Economist Justin Wolfers breaks down why food delivery apps like DoorDash, Uber Eats, and Grubhub make it nearly impossible to compare prices, and why that's no accident. Subscribe on YouTube https://youtube.com/platypuseconomics Subscribe on Substack https://newsletter.platypuseconomics.comFollow on Social Media @PlatypusEconomics and @JustinWolfers
A.I. Enshittifies Everything
32:01|Through stealing your job or simply tanking the stock market—whichever comes first—the rise of artificial intelligence (companies) is a very futuristic sounding problem. It may have some very old-fashioned sounding solutions however.Guest: Cory Doctorow, sci-fi author, journalist, blogger and author of “The Reverse Centaur’s Guide to Life After AI.”Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
Can ChatGPT Be a Criminal Accomplice?
27:55|People are asking artificial intelligence large language models how to do everything—even how to harm themselves and others. And while companies claim there are guardrails in place for those situations, we’ve already seen real-world instances of an LLM’s advice being used to plan a mass shooting.Guest: Mark Follman, national affairs editor at Mother Jones and author of “Trigger Points: Inside the Mission to Stop Mass Shootings in America.”Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
IPO to the Moon
30:13|Is Elon Musk’s SpaceX leading humanity to Mars? Or is that just grandiose window-dressing for an A.I. company leading several other A.I. companies to IPOs? Guest: Max Chafkin, reporter with Bloomberg Businessweek and cohost of the Everybody's Business podcast.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Madeline Ducharme, Patrick Fort, Rob Gunther and Paige Osburn.
Gradu-AI-tion Day
26:03|It’s an awkward time to have a Department of Education that seems so disinterested in, uh, education. It’s leaving teachers to grapple with how to integrate artificial intelligence into the classroom—if at all. Guest: Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Madeline Ducharme, Patrick Fort, Rob Gunther and Paige Osburn.
Trump's Disney Shakedown
29:11|How the Trump administration has tried to put pressure on Disney for opinions expressed by Jimmy Kimmel and the hosts of The View—and how the Mouse is fighting back.Guest: Anna M. Gomez, commissioner of the Federal Communications Commission since September 2023.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Evan Campbell, Madeline Ducharme, Patrick Fort, Rob Gunther and Paige Osburn.
Can Patreon Build a Better Internet?
34:22|The promise of an “internet for niche communities” and “the empowered independent creator” has been taking a beating as the web has become less open and increasingly dominated by a few platforms and players. But does it have to be that way?Guest: Jack Conte, CEO and cofounder of Patreon.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Evan Campbell, and Patrick Fort.
TBD Tries…Roblox
34:01|Under fire for what critics say is inadequate protection of its young user base, Roblox nevertheless remains incredibly popular. Are the company’s new ballyhooed protections up for the task of keeping kids safe? Or is that asking the wrong question entirely?Guests: Cecilia D'Anastasio, video game reporter for Bloomberg. Mary Harris, host of the other What NextStella Harris, daughter of Mary.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Evan Campbell, and Patrick Fort.
Trump Visits the First World
22:09|Between artificial intelligence, the Iran War, and the future of Taiwan, there’s a lot for the United States and China to hash out—not least of which being the pecking order.Guest: Josh Chin, senior global correspondent for the Wall Street Journal.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Evan Campbell, and Patrick Fort.