Share

What Next: TBD | Tech, power, and the future
The Internet of Hate
On this week’s If Then, Will Oremus and April Glaser look further into the presidential election in Brazil and how tech has played a role. On Sunday, the far right candidate Jair Bolsanaro was elected President, and many have attributed his victory to misinformation that spread like wildfire through WhatsApp in the months leading up to the election.
And it’s time again for more gadgets. Apple unveiled a new series of gizmos on Tuesday in Brooklyn: there were big changes to the iPad, Macbook Air, and MacMini.
The hosts are also joined by Joan Donovan, the lead researcher at Data & Society, who focuses on hate groups congregate on social media. This conversation, sadly, comes following the horrific terrorist attack on the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh over the weekend. The shooter, Robert Bowers, had been an active user of the free-speech-centric social media platform Gab that has become a kind of digital playpen for neo-Nazi and white supremacists since forming in 2016. Gab went offline Sunday night.
5:43 - Interview with Pablo Ortellado15:11 - Interview with Joan Donovan33:41 - Don’t Close My Tabs
Don’t Close My Tabs:
The New York Times: How Google Protected Andy Rubin, the “Father of Android”
Frontline: The Facebook Dilemma (Part One)
Podcast production by Max Jacobs
If Then plugs:
You can get updates about what’s coming up next by following us on Twitter @ifthenpod. You can follow Will @WillOremus and April @Aprilaser. If you have a question or comment, you can email us at ifthen@slate.com.
If Then is presented by Slate and Future Tense, a collaboration among Arizona State University, New America, and Slate. Future Tense explores the ways emerging technologies affect society, policy, and culture. To read more, follow us on Twitter and sign up for our weekly newsletter.
Listen to If Then via Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or Google Play.
Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required.
More episodes
View all episodes

A.I. Enshittifies Everything (Still)
32:39|Through stealing your job or simply tanking the stock market—whichever comes first—the rise of artificial intelligence (companies) is a very futuristic sounding problem. It may have some very old-fashioned sounding solutions however.Guest: Cory Doctorow, sci-fi author, journalist, blogger and author of “The Reverse Centaur’s Guide to Life After AI.”This episode originally aired June 26. TBD will be back to regularly scheduled programming next week.Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
Can the Midterms Withstand Prediction Markets?
33:40|Hundreds of millions of dollars, desperation for insider info, fury and accusations of conspiracy when it doesn’t go your way—is this gambling or elections? Through the magic of prediction markets, it’s both! Guest: David Gilbert, reporter at WIRED covering disinformation, online extremism, and how these trends impact people’s lives across the globe.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
Are Flock Cameras Watching You?
27:04|In a world where everyone is carrying smartphones and setting up Ring cameras, you could be forgiven for thinking the war is over and the surveillance state won. But Flock cameras being denounced in town halls and smashed on the street have become a place for people to channel their heretofore unseen rage. Guest: Joseph Cox, reporter for 404 MediaWant more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
Artificial Intelligence, Very Real Debt
32:00|Investments in—and among—artificial intelligence companies have pushed the S&P 500 to record highs. It’s also introduced a volatility to the markets that may be unprecedented. Is this growing pains or the wobble before the fall? Guest: Ed Elson, co-host of the Prof G Markets and First Time Founders podcasts.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
Can We Trust the Jobs Report?
32:55|The Bureau of Labor Statistics is a department for wonks, by wonks. But under the dual pressures of the changing nature of work—like the growing gig economy—and an administration that doesn’t accept bad news, should next week’s jobs report be taken with a grain of salt? Guest: Ben Casselman, chief economics correspondent for The New York Times.Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
Off-the-Record: Wait, You Ran THAT Boston Marathon?
06:04|Why are kids getting faster? Is it the shoes? Also, running the Boston Marathon is obviously a huge accomplishment, but if you ran the 2013 Boston Marathon, you should lead with that and not save it for an interview years after you meet someone.Guest: Rob Gunther, producer for Slate’s What Next.This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
Trump’s Only Friend
24:16|Steve Witkoff is a real estate investor, an attorney, and now America’s Special Envoy to the Middle East. It may seem like a weird career shift for Witkoff, but he’s such an outlier that the famously transactional Donald Trump treats him like an actual friend.Guest: Andrea Bernstein, investigative reporter and the co-host of four podcasts, including Trump Inc.Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
A.I. Vs. Eh, I’m Walkin’ ‘Ere!
04:46|Ah, New York—where it’s hot, loud, and the air is barely breathable. So it’s not especially surprising that Governor Kathy Hochul is opting out of adding to all of that and announcing a moratorium on building new data centers in the state. Guest: Nitish Pahwa, Slate staff writerThis episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.
Game Over for Video Games?
28:31|Is Microsoft laying off 3,200 employees from the Xbox division just a new boss coming in and pruning an overgrown asset, or is it a sign that console gaming is coming to the end? Guest: Jason Schreier, reporter at Bloomberg News, cohost of Triple Click, author of Play Nice, Press Reset, and Blood Sweat and Pixels. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.