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Slow Burn: America's Blackest Child
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In honor of the Juneteenth holiday, What Next presents the first episode of the new season of Slate's Slow Burn, "Becoming Justice Thomas." What Next will be back tomorrow.
Growing up in Georgia, Clarence Thomas wanted to make his mark. His dream was to become his hometown’s first Black Catholic priest. But after Martin Luther King’s assassination, he abandoned that plan. Instead, he embraced campus activism and the teachings of Malcolm X.
Season 8 of Slow Burn is produced by Joel Anderson, Sophie Summergrad, Sam Kim, and Sofie Kodner.
Josh Levin is the editorial director of Slow Burn.
Derek John is Slate’s executive producer of narrative podcasts.
Susan Matthews is Slate’s executive editor.
Editorial direction by Josh Levin, Derek John, and Joel Meyer.
Merritt Jacob is Slate’s senior technical director.
Our theme music is composed by Alexis Cuadrado. Artwork by Ivylise Simones.
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SchadenFriday: Cabinet Crashouts
06:46|The Trump administration is, let’s say, experiencing a bit of turnover this spring. Secretary of Labor Lori Chavez-DeRemer is out and Kash Patel has reached the “embroiled in scandal and suing the press” zone. Guest: Jeet Heer, national affairs correspondent for The Nation.This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
Congress’s Purge Era
28:43|Representatives Eric Swalwell, Tony Gonzales, and now Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick are out; Virginia is redistricting and Republicans are bracing for a tsunami of a blue wave in the fall midterms. What’s gotten into Congress all of a sudden?Guest: Jim Newell, Slate’s senior politics writer. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
Where’s MY Tariff Refund?
26:28|The government is getting ready to pay $166 billion in tariff refunds to American businesses. But the consumers who had to foot the bill for the higher costs? No such luck.Guest: Justin Wolfers, economist and professor at the University of Michigan.Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
Taking ICE to Court
26:38|During the Trump administration’s winter immigration surge, high-level officials assured ICE agents that they could act with impunity. But two different legal cases from Minnesota and Maine are finding ways to challenge the immunity they assumed they had as federal officers.Guest: Mark Joseph Stern, senior staff writer at Slate covering courts and the law cohost of Amicus.Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
Why International Law Can’t Stop Trump
25:59|From bombing fishing boats in the Caribbean, to kidnapping Nicolás Maduro, to the Iran War, the Trump administration seems to operate like it has just as much immunity from international law as John Roberts says it has domestically. They’re probably not wrong.Guest: Philippe Sands, professor of law at University College London,Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
You Come at the Pope, You Best Not Miss
27:52|In Pope Leo XIV, Donald Trump has finally run into someone he can’t silence, threaten, or sully. He’s not taking it gracefully. Guest: Christopher Hale, author of the “Letters from Leo” Substack, “a chronicle of how Pope Leo XIV’s papacy intersects with American politics, faith, and the digital age during the presidency of Donald Trump.”Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
Does JD Vance Have the Juice?
23:42|In a single weekend, JD Vance managed to flunk out of peace talks with Iran and hitch the Trump wagon to Victor Orban’s star just in time for it to implode. Like Kamala Harris before him, the vice president is getting all the hard, unpopular assignments – and also like Harris, it could cost him his political future.Guest: Asawin Suebsaeng, senior political correspondent with Zeteo, co-author of “Sinking in the Swamp: How Trump's Minions and Misfits Poisoned Washington.”Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
What If the US and Iran Are Both Losing?
27:34|The U.S. and Iran began (and ended) negotiations under a shaky ceasefire, and are now at the stage where America is threatening to also blockade the Strait of Hormuz. Meanwhile, Israel and Lebanon have begun negotiating over Hezbollah, with conspicuously no ceasefire in place. Guest: Gregg Carlstrom, Middle East correspondent for The Economist.Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
They Came For Ibram X Kendi. He’s Still Here.
34:07|Lurking behind—and sometimes explicitly out in front of — the Trump administration’s ire for DEI, its crackdowns on immigration, and its rhetoric about what kind of country America is, is “the Great Replacement theory.” But it’s not an exclusively American problem. Guest: Ibram X Kendi, author of “How To Be An Antiracist,” “Stamped From The Beginning” and his latest, “Chain of Ideas: The Origins of Our Authoritarian Age.”Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.