Share
What Next | Daily News and Analysis
Decoder Ring | If You Give a Mouse a Cookie…Will He Want a Welfare Check?
•
While the What Next team is having a holiday, take this journey with our colleagues over at Decoder Ring. What Next will be back in your feed on Monday.
Adults have a long history of trying to find morals and lessons in children’s literature. But what happens when a seemingly innocent book about a boy and a hungry mouse becomes fodder for the culture wars? Over the last decade, Laura Joffe Numeroff’s If You Give a Mouse a Cookie has been adopted by some on the right as a cautionary tale about government welfare. In this episode, we explore the origins of If You Give a Mouse a Cookie, the history of adults extracting unintended meaning from children’s books, and try to figure out how this particular kid’s book became a Republican battle cry.
This episode was written by Cheyna Roth. It was edited by Katie Shepherd and Evan Chung. It was produced by Sofie Kodner. Decoder Ring is produced by Willa Paskin, Evan Chung, Katie Shepherd and Max Freedman. Derek John is Executive Producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director.
In this episode, you’ll hear from author Laura Numeroff, book critic Bruce Handy, economist Rebecca Christie and former journalist Max Ehrenfreund.
If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, email us at DecoderRing@slate.com
If you haven’t please yet, subscribe and rate our feed in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And even better, tell your friends.
If you’re a fan of the show, we’d love for you to sign up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get to listen to Decoder Ring and every other Slate podcast without any ads. You also get unlimited access to Slate’s website. Member support is crucial to our work. So please go to slate.com/decoderplus to join Slate Plus today.
More episodes
View all episodes
Why International Law Can’t Stop Trump
25:59|From bombing fishing boats in the Caribbean, to kidnapping Nicolás Maduro, to the Iran War, the Trump administration seems to operate like it has just as much immunity from international law as John Roberts says it has domestically. They’re probably not wrong.Guest: Philippe Sands, professor of law at University College London,Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
You Come at the Pope, You Best Not Miss
27:52|In Pope Leo XIV, Donald Trump has finally run into someone he can’t silence, threaten, or sully. He’s not taking it gracefully. Guest: Christopher Hale, author of the “Letters from Leo” Substack, “a chronicle of how Pope Leo XIV’s papacy intersects with American politics, faith, and the digital age during the presidency of Donald Trump.”Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
Does JD Vance Have the Juice?
23:42|In a single weekend, JD Vance managed to flunk out of peace talks with Iran and hitch the Trump wagon to Victor Orban’s star just in time for it to implode. Like Kamala Harris before him, the vice president is getting all the hard, unpopular assignments – and also like Harris, it could cost him his political future.Guest: Asawin Suebsaeng, senior political correspondent with Zeteo, co-author of “Sinking in the Swamp: How Trump's Minions and Misfits Poisoned Washington.”Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
What If the US and Iran Are Both Losing?
27:34|The U.S. and Iran began (and ended) negotiations under a shaky ceasefire, and are now at the stage where America is threatening to also blockade the Strait of Hormuz. Meanwhile, Israel and Lebanon have begun negotiating over Hezbollah, with conspicuously no ceasefire in place. Guest: Gregg Carlstrom, Middle East correspondent for The Economist.Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
They Came For Ibram X Kendi. He’s Still Here.
34:07|Lurking behind—and sometimes explicitly out in front of — the Trump administration’s ire for DEI, its crackdowns on immigration, and its rhetoric about what kind of country America is, is “the Great Replacement theory.” But it’s not an exclusively American problem. Guest: Ibram X Kendi, author of “How To Be An Antiracist,” “Stamped From The Beginning” and his latest, “Chain of Ideas: The Origins of Our Authoritarian Age.”Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
SchadenFriday: Washington Gets TMZ’d
07:57|With Congress again out for recess—instead of, say, working to end the partial government shutdown or doing something, anything, when the president threatens war crimes—one media organization had the savvy, gall, and, okay, shamelessness to deputize us all as honorary paparazzi. Guest: Harvey Levin, founder of TMZ.This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
He Made 2026's "Most Controversial Film"
25:40|An Israeli filmmaker, who returned home from abroad after October 7, attempts to capture the feeling of mourning becoming a thirst for revenge among his compatriots, in a film he describes as a “bomb.”Guest: Nadav Lapid, Israeli screenwriter and film director of Yes!Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
What Can a Senator Do to Stop Trump?
25:16|Where was Congress while the president threatened that “a whole civilization will die tonight”? Guest: Senator Mark Warner, U.S. Senator from Virginia, top-ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee.Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
Trump’s Threatening War Crimes. Will Anyone Stop Him?
27:47|Last week, the Army’s Chief of Staff, General Randy George, joined a long and growing list of high-level military officers who have been fired, forced out, or otherwise induced to leave their positions during the second Trump administration. What does that mean for the war in Iran?Guest: Idrees Ali, national security correspondent at Reuters.Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.