What the REF?!

This episode of What the REF explores some of the biggest tensions shaping REF and the wider research sector. Gemma, Simon and Lyndsey discuss a criticism of the measurement of research culture, arguing that accountability and lived experience matter more than simplistic metrics. They then examine growing enthusiasm for AI in research assessment, questioning whether evaluation can ever be automated without losing human judgement, trust and responsibility. The conversation also unpacks the uncertainty surrounding non-traditional outputs in REF submissions, from software and databases to exhibitions and performances, highlighting confusion around portfolios, supplementary evidence and what information panels actually need to make fair assessments.Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Gemma Derrick - a self-confessed REF junkie - Simon Hettrick and Lyndsey Ballantyne, and our producer is Ben Thomas.

Inside the REF machine: this episode of What the Ref lifts the lid on life as an institutional lead. Featuring Gemma Fitzsimmons and Julie Northam, we explore the realities of coordinating submissions, navigating ambiguous guidance, and building confidence across entire universities. From data security concerns to the challenge of representing diverse research outputs, the conversation blends practical insight with sector-wide reflection. Expect candid discussion on pressure, collaboration, and the surprisingly supportive REF community. If you have ever wondered how the REF really works behind the scenes – or how decisions get made – this episode offers a clear, human perspective on a complex national exercise.Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Simon Hettrick and Ola Thomson, and our producer is Ben Thomas.

This week on What the Ref, the team heads to Plymouth for a lively workshop on non-traditional outputs before diving into a fascinating interview with Gareth Cole on the future of open access books. From monographs to “long-form” research, they unpack the challenges of defining openness, funding models beyond book processing charges, and the tension between flexibility and REF policy. Is the system sidelining books—and entire disciplines? Plus, new REF folklore debunked: can novels and trade books really be submitted? A sharp, thought-provoking episode on where research publishing is heading next.Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Simon Hettrick, James Baker and Ola Thomson, and our producer is Ben Thomas.

Dive into the latest episode of What the REF?, where the team unpacks shifting UK research funding, REF 2029 updates, and what an interim director could mean for the sector. From curiosity-driven research and “hidden roles” to the challenges of assessing non-traditional outputs, this episode explores how academia is evolving in real time. The conversation also tackles bigger cultural questions: joy in research, slow scholarship, and whether academia should just be ‘a job’. Plus, insights from NTO workshops, early career concerns, and the future of research assessment—practical, honest, and thought-provoking throughout.Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Simon Hettrick, Ola Thomson and James Baker. Our producer is Ben Thomas.

Discover the story behind the Hidden REF Competition in this special episode of What the REF. James and Lindsay explain how the initiative celebrates the vital but often overlooked contributions that keep research running—from software and datasets to infrastructure, engagement, and the people behind the scenes. Learn how the competition works, who is involved, and why the research community’s submissions matter. With volunteer panels, community-driven categories, and real stories of recognition and impact, the Hidden REF shines a spotlight on the hidden roles and outputs that traditional research assessment often misses. Plus, hear what is new for the 2026 competition and how you can get involved.Interested in joining an expert group? You can sign up here: https://hidden-ref.org/expert-groups/Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: James Baker and Lyndsey Ballantyne, and our producer is Ben Thomas.

Research culture, open access battles, and major REF leadership news — this episode of What the REF?! unpacks the forces reshaping UK academia. The team reflects on the resignation of REF 2029 director Rebecca Fairbairn, debates universities walking away from big publishing deals, and explores how journal prestige still drives pressure and toxic incentives in some disciplines. They also let producer Ben on camera for once to introduce the new Hidden REF expert groups, which are a way of getting YOU involved in shaping the assessment criteria for not-traditionally submitted research outputs. Finally, they mark International Women and Girls in Science Day. Expect candid discussion on publishing power, research assessment, and how culture change in universities might actually happen.Interested in joining an expert group? You can sign up here: https://hidden-ref.org/expert-groups/ Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Gemma Derrick - a self-confessed REF junkie - James Baker and Ola Thomson, and our producer is Ben Thomas.