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Underground Strategy

War and Peace with Peter de Clercq

Season 1, Ep. 10

Episode 10: War and Peace with Peter de Clercq


In this episode of Underground Strategy, we had the honor of hosting Peter de Clercq, a Dutch diplomat who has spent over 35 years working at the highest levels of the United Nations, including as Deputy Special Representative of the Secretary-General for the United Nations Assistance Mission in Somalia (UNSOM). His extensive experience includes working in conflict-affected countries such as Somalia, Sudan, and Haiti, where he has dedicated his career to improving conditions for the most vulnerable populations.

Although Peter is formally retired from his UN roles, he remains deeply involved in promoting inclusion, rights, and opportunities for those impacted by war. In this episode, Peter shares his insights into leadership, peacebuilding, and the challenges the UN faces in war-torn regions.


We discuss how diplomacy plays a crucial role in creating the conditions for peace during violent conflict and rebuilding societies afterward. It was a great conversation, and we’re looking forward to welcoming Peter back for a follow-up episode.

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  • 21. UGS Special Edition: General Louis Botha – Rise to Power Part 1

    23:05||Season 1, Ep. 21
    In this UGS Special Edition, we continue our military legends series with a focus on General Louis Botha, a towering figure in South African military history and often likened to America’s George Washington.In this episode, Max interviews Tony, who shares insights from his co-authored book, Botha, Smuts and the First World War. They explore Botha’s early life, his rise as a commander during the Second Anglo-Boer War, and his strategic genius in defending the Tugela line against British forces. This discussion brings to light Botha’s unique tactical eye, his ability to build loyalty among his troops, and the early guerilla tactics that defined his military approach.Let us know if there are other military legends you’d like us to cover in upcoming episodes!For more on the topic, Tony's book Botha, Smuts and the First World War (available in South African bookstores) provides an in-depth look.The UK edition, Botha, Smuts and the Great War, is available on Amazon. https://amzn.eu/d/6dO2j7i
  • 20. WWII Espionage in South Africa with Evert Kleynhans

    26:30||Season 1, Ep. 20
    In this episode of the Underground Strategy podcast, we’re joined by military historian and professor Evert Kleynhans from Stellenbosch University. Known for his research on South African military history, Evert walks us through the fascinating and often-overlooked story of German espionage networks in South Africa during WWII. He explains the role of the Ossewabrandwag and shares insights into Smuts’ complex balancing act of politics, security, and wartime priorities.Evert also gives us a look at his upcoming work on South African POWs, particularly those who escaped and evaded capture during WWII, providing a unique lens on military resilience and survival. We conclude with Evert's take on South Africa’s most impactful military commanders, whose strategies and decisions have left a lasting mark on both regional and world history.For further reading on Evert Kleynhans and South African military history, check out his publications below:Hitler’s South African Spies - https://amzn.eu/d/4yz0doJNaval War in South African Waters - https://amzn.eu/d/h8IM3GuRecommended reads on South African WWII history:OB: Traitors or Patriots? by George Cloete Visser - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12910111-obRobey Leibbrandt: 'n Lewe van Fanatisme by Albert Blake - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/49447236-robey-leibbrandtA Military History of Modern South Africa by Ian van der Waag - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26190816-a-military-history-of-modern-south-africaAnd a look at Evert’s most influential South African commanders:Dan Pienaar - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_PienaarRoland de Vries - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_de_VriesEvered Poole - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evered_Poole
  • 19. Limited Series Behind the Book: Number 788 - The End of the Beginning

    23:58||Season 1, Ep. 19
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  • 18. Mexican Cartels—The Evolution of Small Armies with Agent Condorito

    21:44||Season 1, Ep. 18
    In this week’s episode of Underground Strategy, Max and Tony sit down with Alex, also known as Agent Condorito, to explore the militarization of Mexican cartels and their evolving tactics. Alex, an open-source intelligence enthusiast, has been closely monitoring cartels through digital channels, uncovering insights that often go underreported.Alex discusses the rapid transformation of cartels like the Sinaloa and Jalisco New Generation Cartels, who have incorporated conventional warfare tactics, specialized units, and heavy weaponry, operating like small armies. The conversation delves into how cartels have leveraged technology—such as drones, anti-drone systems, and social media recruitment—to expand their reach and establish dominance in areas they control.The discussion also highlights the ongoing turf wars, alliances, and internal conflicts within major cartels, as well as the Mexican government’s response and the role of foreign agencies like the DEA. Alex’s stories shed light on the social impact of these cartels, from the widespread violence that affects local communities to the complex web of loyalty and fear that sustains these organizations.Find more insights from Alex on his Instagram page: https://instagram.com/agentcondoritoLinks to Topics Discussed:DEA - https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-05-10/the-deas-crusade-against-the-sinaloa-and-jalisco-cartels-the-most-dangerous-and-deadly-drug-crisis-the-us-has-ever-faced.htmlLos Zetas - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas
  • 17. Limited Series Behind the Book: Number 788 - The Balkan Transition, EP 4

    30:35||Season 1, Ep. 17
    Welcome to Episode 4 of our limited series on Number 788, hosted and produced by South African media figure Desmond Latham. Desmond, known for his History of South Africa podcast, brings his expertise and narrative skill to this series, guiding listeners through the defining missions and experiences of Max Lauker’s career in Swedish special operations.In this episode, Desmond and Max dive into Max's deployment in the Balkans—a transformative chapter in his career. Max reflects on the complex shift from his early cowboy days in Colombia to the high-stakes reality of the Balkans. He recounts the mission dynamics in Kosovo, where he found himself in covert cross-border operations, navigating alliances with Italian and German forces, and conducting intelligence-gathering missions with high-risk stakes.The conversation also explores the moral and tactical complexities of unsanctioned raids, the psychological challenges of long-term surveillance, and the unexpected discovery of Soviet-era weaponry on the Serbian border. Desmond’s probing questions reveal the formative impact of these experiences, shaping Max’s understanding of real-world intelligence work and operational patience.Join us as we uncover the grit, decisions, and high-stakes realities that defined Max's Balkan deployment and set the stage for his subsequent missions.In the next episode, Max will delve further into the evolution of his unit and the impact these early experiences had on his approach to special operations and intelligence.Links:Desmond Latham’s Blog: https://desmondlatham.blog/History of South Africa Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2uDa0tQjGe3GpFKDGjMMAm?si=2d2812af232742daNumber 788 on Amazon: https://a.co/d/is4FcIx
  • 16. The Lives and Narratives of POWs with Karen Horn

    22:02||Season 1, Ep. 16
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  • 15. Limited Series Behind the Book: Number 788 - Unsanctioned Missions, EP 3

    22:05||Season 1, Ep. 15
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  • 14. Thoughts on Kit and What Really Matters

    25:47||Season 1, Ep. 14
    Max and Tony are back, tackling a classic debate: are we all carrying too much kit? In this episode, they dig into the question of what’s truly essential versus what might just be extra baggage. From old-school rain gear to today’s “must-have” gadgets, they share insights on how to find the right balance without diving into a laundry list of gear. The conversation might make you rethink that overstuffed bag!They also catch us up on the latest from Underground Strategy. Recent War Diaries features have brought fresh voices to the fold, with former diplomat Peter de Clercq sharing insights on global conflict zones and cybersecurity expert Hex diving into the digital battlespace. If you haven’t read these new narratives yet, now’s the time to catch up in the War Diaries section.Beyond that, there’s plenty in the works: Tony is collaborating with retired Brigadier General Sereko on memoirs that cover over 40 years of service, while Max is deep into his next book, including a compelling project with South African veteran Bob Newland on his time with the London recruits.Stay tuned for some exciting podcast episodes as we head into the holidays. And, if you have suggestions for themes or guests, reach out—your input could inspire an upcoming episode!And don’t miss the Sunday SitRep! This quick-read, biweekly newsletter keeps you updated on recent military developments. Subscribe on our website to get the latest delivered straight to your inbox.Until next week, keep it light on the kit and ready for action!Links:War Diaries - https://undergroundstrategy.com/narratives/Combat Diaries - https://undergroundstrategy.com/combat-diaries/Sunday Sitrep - https://undergroundstrategy.com/sunday-sitrep/
  • 13. Limited Series Behind the Book: Number 788 – From Reluctant Soldier to Covert Operator, EP 2

    21:45||Season 1, Ep. 13
    Welcome back to the second episode of our limited series on the making of Number 788, hosted and produced by South African media figure Desmond Latham. This in-depth series explores the experiences that led Max Lauker, co-authored with Tony Garcia, to write Number 788: My Experiences in Swedish Special Operations. This episode dives into Max’s journey from early training in the Swedish Armed Forces to unexpected assignments, shedding light on the rigorous world of special operations and the mental challenges it demands.Starting with why he was inspired to finally put his experiences to paper, Max recounts his first exposure to military life and the initial stages of training with Swedish Special Purpose Units. In conversation with Des, he shares insights into the mental resilience and adaptability required to transition from basic training to an advanced special operations unit. Max recalls the reality of special operations training, breaking down misconceptions and explaining how long hours, grit, and relentless training formed the backbone of his career.This episode also delves into unique training experiences abroad with British and French forces, where Max was exposed to live operations in high-risk environments across Europe. Desmond Latham’s thoughtful questions highlight the high stakes and intensity of these early operations, revealing the human element behind the tactical roles Max played.In this candid conversation, Des guides listeners through Max’s reflections on the shift from training to real-world missions, touching on the stoic mentality required to thrive in high-stakes situations and the adjustments made when theory meets reality. The discussion sets the stage for the next episode, where Max will delve into his work hunting down terrorist networks across Europe.Desmond Latham, celebrated for his History of South Africa podcast, brings his keen insights and extensive experience to Underground Strategy. This collaboration offers a unique perspective on the experiences that shaped Number 788, making for an engaging, immersive series.Links:Desmond Latham’s Blog: https://desmondlatham.blog/History of South Africa Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2uDa0tQjGe3GpFKDGjMMAm?si=2d2812af232742daNumber 788 on Amazon: https://a.co/d/is4FcIx