Share

cover art for Management as Caregiving

Tough Day Podcast

Management as Caregiving

Season 1, Ep. 23

In this refreshing and eye-opening convo, KVJ sits down with powerhouse strategist and founder Janna Meyrowitz Turner to unpack what it really means to manage with care. From her early days building StyleHouse to launching her new venture, Antenna Up, Janna walks us through how caregiving and leadership aren’t opposites—they’re deeply connected.

They talk about burnout, invisible labor, DEI misfires, and how men and women can (and must) work together to fix broken systems at work. Plus, the two design the perfect ice cream flavor for leaders trying to balance power and compassion (spoiler: it’s minty, meaningful, and definitely cool to care).

If you've ever felt like managing people shouldn’t feel this hard, this one's for you.

In this episode, you will hear:


  • Management as caregiving: why it’s a mindset shift, not just a skill set
  • Burnout, bandwidth, and balancing emotional labor at work
  • The sandwich generation of managers—why middle managers are stretched thin
  • How our early life systems shape leadership behavior
  • Why men and women need to solve workplace problems together
  • DEI backlash and the danger of excluding cis het white men from the conversation
  • Real talk about invisible labor, emotional tolls, and why it’s okay to name the tension
  • Personal brand alignment: leading with authenticity and clarity
  • Why humor, storytelling, and honesty are the unsung tools of good leadership





Learn more about Janna Turner | Antenna Up


Website: https://www.jannamturner.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jannaturner

Instagram: @jannamturner


Learn more about Antenna Up and Buoys Club via Sinistry Capital (note: Antenna Up launches publicly in Fall 2025)




Learn more about KVJ | Tough Day


Website: https://tough.day/

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kvonjan

More episodes

View all episodes

  • 29. Agree to Disagree

    52:09||Season 1, Ep. 29
    We've all sat through a meeting where two people carry the whole room while everyone else leans back and watches. Or a panel where every answer sounds polished, rehearsed, and completely useless. What if the problem isn't the topic—it's that we've mistaken performance for thinking? In this episode of Tough Day, KVJ sits down with Matt Chmiel, Head of Discourse and Chief Agitator at ON_Discourse, to explore what it actually takes to disagree well at work—and why productive friction might be the most underrated leadership skill nobody's talking about. Matt has spent his career creating the conditions for real conversation—from Capitol Hill to digital media to facilitating hundreds of high-stakes C-suite roundtables. He's also co-founder of Domain, an AI collaboration platform built on everything he's learned from years of professional agitation. In this conversation, he breaks down what separates genuine discourse from performative noise—and how to build a culture where people actually engage instead of nod. Plus, he tackles three listener scenarios: managing a lovable troublemaker dynamic, when anonymous hot takes cross a line, and how to contribute to a combative team when you're not a natural agitator. What we cover:Why the best ideas don't come from polished presentations—they come from the moment right after the pushback The three pillars of discourse: provocations, listening, and genuine openness to changing your mind Why "I don't know" and "I was wrong" are the most powerful things a leader can say in a room How to tell productive friction from performative noise—and what it costs a team when no one can The report model: how capturing unattributed quotes from one session can unlock lasting organizational learning Why the quietest person in the room might be the most valuable contributor to a discourse-driven teamLearn more about Matt Chmiel:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-chmiel-04503a4/ Website: https://ondiscourse.com/ Website: https://ondomain.ai/ Learn more about KVJ | Tough DayWebsite: https://tough.day/LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kvonjan
  • 28. Antidote to Burnout

    44:55||Season 1, Ep. 28
    We've all felt it—that Sunday dread, the flat feeling at your desk, the sense that your energy is running on empty and no one seems to notice. But what if burnout isn't just about working too hard? What if it's about working in the wrong direction? In this episode of Tough Day, KVJ sits down with Serena Martino, executive and leadership coach, to explore what it really means to fuel your own fire at work—and how to get it back when the flame goes out. Serena has spent her career helping professionals move from surviving to thriving—first as a leader across tech, e-commerce, and travel, and now as a coach supporting individuals and teams through change, burnout, and the search for meaningful work. Her new book, The Unwritten Job Description: How to Redesign Your Work and Life on Your Own Terms, captures the full arc of that journey. In this conversation, she shares the simple but powerful mindset shifts that help people stop waiting for things to get better—and start steering their energy with intention. Plus, she tackles three real listener scenarios about staying grounded when a colleague's mood takes over the room, never feeling a "spark" at work, and coming back from sabbatical still feeling flat. What we cover:Why energy—not time—is the real resource worth managing, and how to start tracking it The difference between surviving, managing, growing, and thriving—and what stage most people get stuck in Why burnout recovery isn't a switch you flip, and how to rebuild your spark without overwhelming yourself The three-step reset when things spiral: pause, identify what you can control, and ask how you can help How small daily celebrations compound into genuine motivation over time Why the best leaders don't just give energy—they ask for it back, tooLearn more about Serena Martino:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/serenamartino/Website: https://www.serenamartino.com/ Book: https://www.serenamartino.com/the-unwritten-job-description Learn more about KVJ | Tough DayWebsite: https://tough.day/LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kvonjan
  • 27. Inspired & Inspiring Leadership

    56:34||Season 1, Ep. 27
    We've all been told "be more creative" or "think outside the box." But what does that actually mean—and how do you build a workplace where inspiration isn't just a buzzword, but the fuel that drives real results? In this episode of Tough Day, KVJ and Annie sit down with Andy Stefanovich, serial entrepreneur and provocation expert, to explore how leaders can unlock creativity without letting it derail execution. Andy doesn't deal in corporate platitudes—he's spent decades helping companies like Nike, GE, and Capital One unlock creativity through frameworks that actually work. From the "5 I's" that turn raw inspiration into measurable impact, to the "Shush Room" that became Disney's secret weapon, this conversation is packed with practical tools for leaders who want their teams to think bigger without losing focus. Plus, Andy tackles three real workplace scenarios about managing inspiration when it goes sideways. What we cover:Why inspiration is everything and nothing—and the mindset shift that makes it actually work in business The "5 I's" framework: turning raw creative energy into measurable business impact The "5 M's" of cultural transformation: Mood, Mindset, Mechanisms, Measurement, and Momentum How to keep someone's inspiration alive without letting it derail the work What to do when a team member is deeply inspired by a project that's no longer relevant Why the best leaders create invitations, not rules—and how that unlocks everyone differentlyLearn more about Andy Stefanovich:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-stefanovich-75b123/ Learn more about KVJ | Tough DayWebsite: https://tough.day/LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kvonjan
  • 26. Why Most Change Fails and How to Make Yours Stick

    50:21||Season 1, Ep. 26
    We’ve all heard the stat, “70% of change initiatives fail.” But why? In this episode of Tough Day, KVJ sits down with Phil Kirschner, founder of PK Consulting, LinkedIn Top Voice, and author of The Workline, to unpack what really makes change so hard for teams and leaders alike. Together, they explore why most “change management” efforts miss the mark, the hidden role of trust and vulnerability in successful transformations, and how to build a culture where experimentation (and even failure) is celebrated, not punished. Phil also shares why leaders need to stop “selling” change and start co-designing it, how to avoid the chaos of “move fast” cultures, and why the future of work demands curiosity, transparency, and a little more grace for ourselves along the way. What we cover:Why 70% of organizational change efforts fail — and what that stat really meansThe simple mindset shift that turns resistance into engagementHow the best leaders admit they don’t have all the answers — and invite others to help figure it outThe link between trust, vulnerability, and real transformation (spoiler: you can’t fake it) How to build a culture where failure isn’t fatal — it’s dataWhy “move fast” doesn’t always mean progress — and how to slow down without stallingLearn more about Phil Kirschner:Website: https://www.philkirschner.com/ Newsletter: https://www.flexos.work/the-workline LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philkirschner/ Learn more about KVJ | Tough DayWebsite: https://tough.day/LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kvonjan
  • 25. Leading Under Pressure Without Losing Your Cool (or Your Team)

    52:23||Season 1, Ep. 25
    We’ve all felt it — the weight of constant change, the pressure to keep performing, and the stress that never seems to let up. In this episode of Tough Day, KVJ sits down with Rachael Lowell — executive coach, founder of REworking Leadership, and creator of the SHIFT Framework and Team Map — to explore what really happens when pressure becomes the norm at work. Together, they unpack how chronic stress and constant disruption impact performance, the hidden role of self-regulation in leadership, and why trauma (yes, the T word) might be showing up in ways we don’t expect. Rachael also shares how leaders can build emotional capacity instead of burnout, use micro-practices to recover faster, and create teams that thrive on clarity, connection, and calm — even when everything around them is changing. What we cover:Why constant change keeps teams stuck in survival mode — and what it takes to reset The surprising ways chronic stress and trauma show up at work (even when you think you’re fine) How to spot when you’ve shifted from “high performing” to “high pressure” — and what to do next Why regulation, not resilience, is the real leadership superpowerHow micro-practices can help you recover faster and think more clearly under stressThe SHIFT Framework: a new way to map your team’s energy, pressure points, and capacity to adaptWhy calm leaders make clearer decisions — and how to build that steadiness into your cultureLearn more about Rachael Lowell:Website (REworking Leadership): https://reworkingleadership.com/ Website (SHIFT Snapshot): https://leadtheshift.ai/ Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-breadwinners/id1493354769 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachaellowell/ Learn more about KVJ | Tough DayWebsite: https://tough.day/LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kvonjan
  • 24. From Bad Bosses to Great Leaders

    37:55||Season 1, Ep. 24
    You know that boss who sends emails at 12:03 AM? The one who’s always in a fire drill? Or the beloved, well-meaning leader who… doesn’t actually know how to lead? In this episode of Tough Day, host KVJ sits down with Mita Mallick, bestselling author and workplace culture expert, to unpack some of the most common (and quietly dangerous) archetypes of bad bosses — and what good leaders can learn from them.Mita shares stories and insights from her upcoming book, The Devil Emails at Midnight: What Good Leaders Can Learn from Bad Bosses, including how to spot macro managers, navigate kind-but-incompetent bosses, and protect yourself from gossipy higher-ups. Whether you’ve had a bad boss or been one, this conversation will help you lead and work better — starting now.✨ What we cover:What inspired Mita to turn her “burn book” into a leadership guideThe difference between trust and neglect in leadershipWhen kindness hides incompetence — and what to do about itHow to deal with manipulative gossip in the workplaceWhy team agreements and coaching moments matter📚 Pre-order Mita’s new book, The Devil Emails at Midnight Coming September 30, 2025 👉 Order here🔗 Connect with Mita Mallick: 🌐 Website: https://www.mitamallick.com 📘 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mitamallick Learn more about KVJ | Tough DayWebsite: https://tough.day/LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kvonjan
  • 22. The Power of the Pack

    46:46||Season 1, Ep. 22
    Feeling stuck in outdated workplace systems? In this episode of Tough Day, host KVJ sits down with Shelley Zalis—CEO, founder, and Chief Troublemaker of The Female Quotient—to talk about rewriting the rules of work for a more inclusive, human-centered future. Shelley shares her zigzag career journey, from breaking into market research by accident to sparking a global movement for equality in business. Together, they unpack why traditional systems are failing caregivers, why empathy is a power skill, and how conscious leadership can drive real transformation. Shelley also tackles workplace DEI fatigue, toxic culture, and why it's time to stop fixing women and start fixing the system.Tune in for real talk, bold insights, and the unapologetic leadership energy we need now more than ever.In this episode, you will hear:Why feminine leadership traits like empathy and collaboration are criticalHow The FQ fosters inclusive spaces and business opportunitiesThe evolution from the Girls’ Lounge to the Equality Lounge to global transformation workThe importance of designing workplaces for caregivers and the “messy middle”The danger of unconscious bias and the importance of conscious leadershipWhy DEI must be embedded in company strategy, not relegated to HRLearn more about Shelley Zalis | The Female QuotientWebsite: https://www.thefemalequotient.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelleyzalis Learn more about KVJ | Tough Day   Website: https://tough.day/LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kvonjan 
  • 21. Cultivating an Everywhere Mindset

    38:41||Season 1, Ep. 21
    On this episode of Tough Day, KVJ hangs out with the one and only Jenny Fielding—aka the queen of the Everywhere Mindset. Jenny’s launched hundreds of startups and traveled to over 100 countries (yep, she’s got the passport stamps to prove it). She shares why being globally curious isn’t just for digital nomads—it’s actually a career game-changer. We get into her new book "Venture Everywhere", talk about why grit and guts (aka “resilience” and “moxie”) matter more than ever, and hear some wild founder stories from unexpected places—like Waterdrop in China and Kareem in the Middle East. Buckle up, it’s a fun ride.In this episode, you will hear:Shifts in services and workforce are fueling global entrepreneurship.How to balance bold thinking with job security, build resilience, and cultivate agency.Why being "mildly entertaining" at work is a legit superpowerInnovating at work, even when companies resist change or focus on short-term wins.The Everywhere Mindset: why global thinking matters today.Learn more about Jenny Fielding | Everywhere VCLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyfielding/Website: https://everywhere.vc/Twitter: @jefieldingVenture Everywhere book: https://www.jennyfielding.com/venture-everywhereLearn more about KVJ | Tough DayWebsite: https://tough.day/LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kvonjan