The Ralph Moore Podcast


Interview with Steve Upphal Wolverhampton, England Part 1 of 2

Season 3, Ep. 50298

This interview is hugely instructive.

While many young pastors minimalize or even erase, the history of a church; Steve chose to build on the heritage of the church he pastors.

Planted by two young women on bicycles in nationwide poverty immediately following World War 2, the church had suffered a leadership crisis on a seven-year cycle until Steve recognized and broke it.

This is a rapidly growing congregation in a country where that is a rarity--yet the pastor recognizes the need to release people is more important than building big. Young, refreshing and challenging, you'll enjoy learning from Steve as he continues to learn from the Spirit. If you care about church multiplication and wrestling through problems bigger than you, this podcast will light your fire.

For more from Steve you can find him at or

More Episodes


John Harris-What Does He Know That You Don't? (1 of 2)

Season 3, Ep. 50309
What does John Harris know that you don’t?He’s grown a church from 2 people to 400 during Covid and on Facebook. But that’s not the most crucial part of this interview. Post-Church Christfollowers and “multimodal” church are.John left a career as a military chaplain to join the staff in a large California church. After more than a decade, he began noticing that most church dropouts come from among the 20 percent of super-committed Christ-followers. The doers and givers are leaving churches in significant numbers.So, in 2019 he departed his job as an executive pastor to launch a coaching ministry designed to help pastors keep their most influential members. Then Covid struck!Forced to move his business online, he never missed a beat. The coaching platform has grown in size and productivity but still left something to be explored. Seeking to understand better why key people leave the church, he decided to start an “unchurch” to reach them. He doesn’t call it that. I do. It presents as an “online Christian community.” Intent on avoiding the word, church, he began by reaching people who feel they just escaped one.Then there is the evangelism element. As people get excited about personal growth around the father-love of God, they talk about it. Evangelism happens without prodding. The story goes on. So you need to listen to it if you want to understand “multimodal church” or why I found myself coaching a church growth coach.You can learn about the coaching business at to check on the unchurch, you’ll need to take notes as he explains the path to observe what he’s doing in part 2 of this fascinating interview.