Share
The Lawfare Podcast: Patreon Edition
Rational Security: The “Leftover Chicken Kyiv” Edition
•
This week, Scott joined his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Natalie Orpett, and Anastasiia Lapatina for a rare, all-in-person discussion of the week’s big national security news, including:
- “Chicken Kyiv, Served Cold.” The Trump administration’s vision for a peace settlement in Ukraine is coming into focus—and it’s not the one many Ukrainians and Europeans were hoping for. In negotiations that have largely excluded Ukrainian and European partners—and amidst a barrage of hostile attacks on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s democratic legitimacy—the Trump administration appears to be insisting on some U.S. stake in Ukraine’s rare earth minerals while remaining unwilling to support Ukraine’s NATO membership and resistant to providing hard security guarantees in response. Are the contours of such a deal something Ukraine can agree to? And will it advance U.S. and Ukrainian national security interests?
- “Euro Vision.” In some of his first comments since emerging from elections as Germany’s new chancellor, Friedrich Merz called for European independence from the United States, in light of the Trump administration’s increasing neglect (and even hostility) to longstanding transatlantic partnerships. And Ukraine may be the first front for this new policy orientation, as European officials have suggested an increased willingness to deploy ground troops to Ukraine, increase their own assistance levels, and even make an alternate offer for access to Ukraine’s rare earth minerals. How much potential is there for a truly independent European foreign policy? And what will it mean for U.S. national interests?
- “Baywatch Reruns.” As part of its aggressive campaign against undocumented migrants, the Trump administration has expanded its use of the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay for what it claims to be the “worst of the worst” undocumented migrants involved in violent crimes. But recent reporting has cast serious doubt on whether everyone who has been detained at Guantanamo meets this qualification, while others have raised questions about the conditions in which detainees are being held and the legal basis for the involvement of military personnel. What is the Trump administration really trying to accomplish? And is Guantanamo Bay once again becoming a black mark on American rule of law?
In object lessons, Natalie confirmed the existence of the year’s most top-secret, exclusive diplomatic gathering—the Lawfare Baby Summit. Anastasiia unveiled Escalation, a long-anticipated narrative podcast series from Lawfare and Goat Rodeo about the history of the U.S.-Ukraine relationship. Scott—in true elder Millennial fashion—identified with the gracefully aging, definitely not old, Before Trilogy from Richard Linklater. And Ben marked the third anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine with a somber reflection on the sparse turnout at a Lincoln Memorial rally over the weekend, underscoring the ongoing challenge of building mass political movements from within small communities.
We value your feedback! Help us improve by sharing your thoughts at lawfaremedia.org/survey. Your input ensures that we deliver what matters most to you. Thank you for your support—and, as always, for listening!
Use promo code RATIONALSECURITY at the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan:
More episodes
View all episodes
Lawfare Archive: The U.S. Bombing of Yemen and the Houthi Response
23:15|From March 21, 2025: For today's episode, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman interviewed Gregory Johnsen, a non-resident fellow at the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington, D.C. Johnsen explains the rationale of the Trump administration's decision to bomb Yemen but argues that it will have little effect on the Houthis. Indeed, Johnsen contends that the Houthis are spoiling for a fight with the United States and Israel, believing that this will generate support within Yemen that will help them increase their power.Lawfare Archive: Making Sense of the Doppelganger Disinformation Operation, with Thomas Rid
55:58|From October 16, 2024: In early September, the U.S. Justice Department released a trove of information about the Russian influence campaign known as “Doppelganger”—a Kremlin-backed effort that created faux versions of familiar news websites and seeding them with fake material. Just a few weeks later, the German publication Süddeutsche Zeitung reported that it had received a tranche of hacked materials from inside the Doppelganger operation. Thomas Rid, a professor at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies and the founding director of the school’s Alperovitch Institute for Cybersecurity Studies, got an inside look at those documents. In a new article in Foreign Affairs, “The Lies Russia Tells Itself,” he examines the “granular operational insight” that this material provides into the active measures campaign. He joined the Lawfare Podcast to talk with Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic about his findings—and why he believes the documents show that “the biggest boost the Doppelganger campaigners got was from the West’s own anxious coverage of the project.”Lawfare Daily: Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan Discuss Their Bestseller, ‘Regime Change’
52:41|New York Times White House Correspondents Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan speak with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff about their recent bestseller, “Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump.”They discuss how close Trump has come to suspending habeas corpus and invoking the Insurrection Act, how the Supreme Court’s immunity decision has shaped his conduct, his vindictive prosecutions and desire for more, his firings of national security professionals at the behest of Laura Loomer, and more.
Rational Security: The “(Deep State) Friends We Make Along the Way” Edition
01:16:31|This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Public Service Fellow Julia Curlee and Senior Editors Eric Columbus and Molly Roberts to talk through the week’s big news in national security, including:“The Manchurian Candidates.” In a primetime address to the nation last Thursday, July 16, President Trump declassified a trove of intelligence documents that he claimed prove America’s elections are dangerously vulnerable to foreign interference—particularly by China—and revived his long-standing, evidence-free assertions that the 2020 election was “rigged” against him. He ordered the Justice Department to prosecute those he claims were involved. But intelligence officials past and present, as well as the documents themselves, draw a sharp line between foreign influence campaigns and actual interference with vote counts—and none of the material supports the claim that any votes were changed. What is actually in the documents that President Trump has declassified? And what does his speech tell us about his intentions for the midterm elections and the 2028 elections beyond?“Leak and Ye Shall Find.” The Trump administration has dramatically escalated its campaign against leakers, culminating in grand jury subpoenas served to New York Times journalists, some at their homes, over their reporting on security concerns relating to the new Qatari-gifted Air Force One. The Pentagon and the Justice Department have stood up a joint task force to “identify and prosecute leakers,” and the New York Times is now fighting the subpoenas in court, calling them an attempt to intimidate the press that treads on First Amendment rights. The administration insists that reporters aren’t the targets—only the people who actually leaked—and said that the reporters are simply witnesses. How much legal jeopardy do the reporters—and the media more broadly—actually face? And is this a genuine national security effort or an assault on press freedom?“Advise and Dissent.” Two of the administration’s most consequential nominees—Jay Clayton, who has been nominated as Director of National Intelligence, and Todd Blanche, who has been nominated as Attorney General—sat for their Senate confirmation hearings last week. Clayton, currently U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, repeatedly declined to say that Joe Biden won the 2020 election, while Blanche was grilled over the now-“dead” anti-weaponization fund, the Epstein files, and the very NYT subpoenas he authorized. Both face unexpectedly narrow paths to confirmation, complicated by the sudden death of Sen. Lindsey Graham. What did we learn from the hearings? And what are each nominee’s prospects for confirmation?In object lessons, Julia strums to the strifes it seems we can’t escape. Eric compliments the coordinated collection of compost. Scott salutes Mr. The Frog and friends who are back on the small screen (and then gets scooped on another Muppet story). And Molly marvels at one of her many military morale patches.Lawfare Daily: Can State Laws Protect Against Misuse of the National Guard?
59:13|On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sits down with Liza Goitein and Joseph Nunn of the Liberty and Security Program at the Brennan Center, and Lawfare Senior Editor Loren Voss. They talk about the state laws governing the National Guard—what they allow, what they prohibit, and what it means for domestic deployments in the United States. What is the National Guard allowed to do, especially when operating in a hybrid status where the mission is defined by the president but the governor retains command and control? State laws are complex, varied, and sometimes facially unconstitutional. The Brennan Center recently published a compendium of those state laws at https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/state-and-territorial-laws-governing-national-guard.Ask Lawfare Anything: July 2026
59:26|On this month's Ask Lawfare Anything, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Foreign Policy Editors Dan Byman and Dana Stuster to answer questions submitted by Lawfare material supporters. Access to this event is available exclusively for Lawfare material supporters.Lawfare Daily: Inside Zelensky’s Disastrous Decision to Fire Ukraine’s Minister of Defense
01:00:57|On today’s episode, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina talks to Francis Farrell, a front line reporter at the Kyiv Independent, about the Ukrainian president’s decision to replace the country’s Minister of Defense, the mass protests it caused, and how the decision will impact the course of the war.Lawfare Daily: How To Make a Patriot, with Fabian Hoffman
32:16|On today’s episode, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina talks to Fabian Hoffman, a senior research fellow at the Programme for Ukraine and Full-Spectrum Threats at the Norwegian Institute for Defence Studies, about what it would take for Ukraine to produce Patriot interceptor missiles, if the United States had given it the license to do so.Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, July 17
01:23:36|In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Senior Editors Eric Columbus, Anna Bower, Molly Roberts, and Roger Parloff to discuss the confirmation hearing for acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, subpoenas sent to New York Times reporters, a judicial opinion voiding President Trump’s settlement with the IRS, and more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.