That's What I Call Marketing

What does attention actually tell us about whether advertising is working?Pete Wallace, Managing Director EMEA at GumGum, explains why clicks remain a poor measure of advertising effectiveness and how attention can help marketers connect media exposure with real brand outcomes.Pete shares how GumGum combines contextual signals, attention data, time, device and creative performance to predict the mindset of an audience. He brings this to life through GumGum’s work with the BBC and Havas on *Celebrity Traitors*, where targeting and creative changed as tension and excitement around the programme developed.We also discuss why there is no universal number of seconds that guarantees attention, how creative testing can reveal when branding should appear, and why advertising needs to respect the environment in which it appears.The conversation then moves into privacy, the value exchange between advertising and free content, the problem with ad tech companies using the same language, and why marketers need to ask more difficult questions about the technology behind their media plans.Pete also reflects on moving from agency life into ad tech and leading teams across Europe, Japan and Australia, where different cultures require different approaches to pitching, testing and decision-making.## In this episode, you will learn:* Why attention can be more useful than clicks as a measure of advertising effectiveness* How contextual advertising can predict consumer mindset without relying on personal identity* How GumGum adapted targeting and creative during the BBC’s *Celebrity Traitors** Why every brand may require a different attention benchmark* How creative attention data can improve branding and message placement* Why advertising works best when it respects the surrounding content* How marketers can test ad technology rather than accepting similar-sounding sales pitches* What Pete has learned from leading teams across different international markets## Timestamps01:38 Pete’s journey from media agencies into ad tech03:23 The difference between agency life and working in sales05:33 What GumGum does and how the business has developed06:00 Using data signals to predict consumer mindset06:55 How GumGum worked on the BBC’s *Celebrity Traitors*08:46 Why attention has always influenced media planning09:25 Connecting attention to business and brand outcomes10:21 How GumGum measures attention11:15 Why there is no universal attention benchmark11:23 Using attention data to improve creative execution12:45 Matching advertising to the environment around it13:34 Why brands are asking more questions about ad technology14:33 Where GumGum fits within the modern media plan14:40 Why marketers need greater digital and technical knowledge15:12 Are marketers rigorous enough when testing media?16:00 The problem with every ad tech company sounding the same17:00 Why campaign learning needs to feed into future activity17:42 Leading teams across Europe, Japan and Australia18:23 How culture changes client expectations and ways of working20:01 Balancing global consistency with local flexibility21:23 What international markets can learn from one another*The Cannes Sessions are brought to you in partnership with The Digital Voice.*

James MacDonald, Founder of Limelight, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss programmatic advertising, building a global ad tech business, AI and why simplicity still matters for marketers today.This episode explores the journey from Fleet Street advertising sales to modern programmatic technology, through a practical conversation about risk, reinvention, customer focus, remote culture and building technology that solves real problems.In this episode, we cover:– What Fleet Street taught James about sales, resilience and asking for the business– Why helping people buy is more powerful than pushing people to buy– How James identified the gap that led to Limelight– Why programmatic advertising still needs simplicity, support and better execution– How Limelight thinks about AI, interoperability and the importance of human judgement– What it takes to build and maintain a strong remote culture across a global teamA useful listen for marketers interested in ad tech, programmatic advertising, AI in marketing, founder stories, sales, customer success, remote teams and building through change.That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.comThis Cannes Sessions episode is brought to you in partnership with The Digital Voice.Find out more at: https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk01:38 Starting out on Fleet Street03:19 What early sales teaches you04:35 From eggs to advertising06:27 Helping people buy, not pushing a sale07:04 Mentors, mistakes and learning through failure07:11 Starting again and founding Limelight09:31 Finding the right business partner10:59 Identifying the gap in programmatic12:00 Building the Limelight platform14:00 Taking risks as a founder15:59 Building culture as the company grows16:42 Running a fully remote global business18:17 What Limelight does20:49 How people discover Limelight22:16 Listening to customers and building the product23:33 AI, human judgement and interoperability26:05 Why simplicity matters in technology

In the latest episode of The Singles, Conor is joined by Ed Parkin and Bella Harrison from Tracksuit to dig into four marketing stories where the headlines only tell part of the story.The episode starts with the FIFA World Cup and what it could mean for soccer in the US. Major League Soccer still has a long way to go versus the NFL, NBA and MLB on awareness, but Tracksuit data shows consideration is already moving in the right direction. The conversation gets into younger audiences, affluent consumer skews, regional growth and why feeling “for people like me” matters so much in sports marketing.Then it’s onto World Cup sponsorship. Coca-Cola, Adidas and McDonald’s show what decades of investment can do when brand associations compound over time, while Mengniu shows how sponsorship can still create warmth for a lesser-known brand.The team also discuss Spotify’s temporary 20th anniversary logo, the backlash it received, and whether marketers sometimes overreact when a strong brand plays with its distinctive assets. With 88% awareness and very strong consideration, Spotify has more room to experiment than most.BrewDog is next. Once valued at £2bn and now sold for £33m, it is a reminder that awareness can remain even when consideration, usage and preference are falling. The discussion also looks at James Watt’s new brand, Second Best, and whether founder-led challenger energy can travel from one brand to another.Finally, the episode turns to the Irish National Lottery ad controversy, after its new work closely followed a New Zealand Lottery ad scene for scene. The question is not whether the insight worked. It did. The question is what happens when inspiration becomes imitation.Tracksuit University is also featured in the episode, including how it helps marketers make the case for brand in a more finance-friendly way.Get 20% off Tracksuit University with the discount code: That’s What I Call MarketingVisit: university.gotracksuit.comIn this episode:00:00 Introduction01:24 Tracksuit University and making brand finance-friendly02:48 The FIFA World Cup and soccer in the US03:47 MLS awareness, consideration and growth potential05:25 Younger audiences, affluent consumers and regional skews06:49 Why relevance matters in sports marketing09:02 World Cup sponsorship and long-term brand investment13:00 Spotify’s 20th anniversary logo backlash16:31 Why Spotify has earned the right to play with its assets18:21 BrewDog’s sale and brand decline20:01 Trust, relevance and the erosion of BrewDog’s core audience21:01 Second Best and the future of founder-led brands23:33 The Irish National Lottery ad controversy26:45 Distinctiveness, copying and creative shortcuts29:07 Tracksuit University discount details

Jon Evans (Uncensored CMO) on Going Solo: Sponsorship, Podcasting as Networking & Cashflow RealityConor Byrne chats with Jon Evans (Uncensored CMO) about leaving the CMO track to run his podcast full time, using sponsorship to fund the work and turning “being good at talking” into a career. Jon explains why podcasting is a powerful networking tool—CMOs often decline coffee but say yes to being a guest—and how it accelerates learning by speaking to experts weekly. He also shares the less glamorous surprises of working for yourself: contracts, running a business properly, cashflow, and the difficulty of getting paid on time while supporting a team. Jon stresses that success is a long grind—“seven years to have an overnight success”—and that consistency and compounding effort are what make creator-led media businesses work in marketing.

In this episode of the Cannes Sessions, Conor Byrne takes us through another packed day on the Croisette, starting with the CMOs in the Spotlight session featuring Jill Kramer of Mastercard, Michelle Klein of Westpac, Manuel “Manolo” Arroyo of The Coca-Cola Company, and Suhayl Limbada CMO of KFC India. There were big themes running through the day: how legacy brands stay useful, why marketers need to understand the P&L, what happens when creativity meets commercial pressure, and why the best brands do not throw away their distinctive assets just because the world has changed. There is also a brilliant conversation with Maddy Cooper, Founder and CEO of Flourish, on how AI can help marketers in regulated sectors get work to market faster without creating a compliance nightmare. That matters because the future of marketing is not just more content, more formats and more channels. It is whether brands can still make sharp, responsible, commercially useful work at the speed the market now demands. The Digital Voice team were also out on the Croisette speaking to marketers including Langton McCombe from Particular Audience, Rory McDonald from Market Media at The Warehouse Group, and Alex Springer from OpenAttribution.org about retail media, incrementality, AI, ROAS, creativity, and what Cannes is really for and James Taylor CEO of Particular Audience.And, of course, there was a big moment for Ireland, with Heineken’s The Pub That Refused To Die winning a Grand Prix, plus a look ahead to the Cannes Young Lions results where Darragh Spain and Fardosa Flanagan from 123.ie represented Ireland in the Young Marketers category along with lots of amazing talent representing Ireland.01:18 – CMOs in the Spotlight: Mastercard, KFC India, Westpac and Coca-Cola02:01 – Why Mastercard is re-examining the Priceless platform03:14 – KFC, Gen Z, universal truths and the role of the Colonel04:19 – Westpac, jingles, legacy brands and speaking the language of the CFO05:14 – Coca-Cola, creativity, behaviour and why great teams matter more than big budgets11:28 – Spending time with Jonnie Cahill and the value of generous senior marketers15:03 – Maddy Cooper on Flourish, AI, compliance and regulated marketing18:29 – Inside the Cannes Lions work exhibition21:00 – Ireland’s Grand Prix moment for Heineken23:58 – Langton McCombe on retail media, commerce media and incrementality26:32 – Rory McDonald on creativity, ROAS and business outcomes29:54 – Alex Springer on attribution, AI, influence and the future of content34:26 – Final reflections from Cannes Sessions 2026Thanks to The Digital Voice for partnering on the Cannes Sessions.Find out more:The Digital Voice: thedigitalvoice.co.ukFlourish: flourishingworld.comThat’s What I Call Marketing: follow the podcast for more conversations with the people shaping modern marketing.

Cannes Lions Day 3: Moloco CMO Paul Darcy on AI Disruption, Brand vs Performance + Festival Voices & Award HighlightsOn day three of the Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity, host Conor Byrne records The Cannes Sessions in partnership with The Digital Voice and interviews Paul Darcy, CMO of Moloco, fresh off an Adweek panel on how AI and LLM-driven consumer behavior are disrupting digital brands and acquisition channels. Darcy discusses the growing importance of brand as a signal to LLMs, the rising opportunity cost and measurement challenges of brand media versus increasingly optimized performance marketing (including CTV and in-app video), and Moloco’s focus on expanding modern performance surfaces. He also summarizes Moloco and BCG’s report on AI disruption by industry, highlighting discovery and customer-relationship durability, and notes AI overviews reducing clicks. The episode also features Cannes attendee perspectives (Amir Rasekh of Nectar 360, Beatrice Bordel Grant, Pauline Yoo from Samsung Ads, and Max from Adnormally) and Conor’s press-room roundup of select Cannes Lions winners.00:00 Welcome to Cannes01:15 Meet Paul Darcy01:39 AI Disrupts Brands02:43 Brand vs Performance04:29 Performance as Brand05:19 Fixing Ad Inefficiency06:44 Moloco Growth Mission07:19 BCG Disruption Report10:33 Digital Voice Street Chats10:56 Nectar 360 Goals11:50 Amazon Port Surprise14:24 Samsung Ads Highlights16:12 Networking at Cannes17:34 Press Room Winners20:07 Wrap and Tomorrow

Cannes Lions 2026 Day 2: Google’s Paul Limbey on AI Transformation, LinkedIn Creators & Heineken’s Bronze LionOn day two at Cannes Lions 2026 (Tuesday, 23 June), host Conor Byrne recaps a busy schedule at Brand Tech Beach, including an interview with Natasha Wallace to be released later in the summer with The Digital Voice. He doorstops Google’s Paul Limbey, who warns against the “double shift” of giving top performers both day jobs and transformation work, highlights the rise of forward-deployed roles backed by major programs from Google Cloud, Anthropic and OpenAI, and explains his upcoming leadership fable The Frog in a Sock (out early July) about organizational constraints like workflows, approvals and pilot obsession; he also argues for product-minded scaling, better performance metrics for transformation, and repeated communication. At the System1 party, Conor discusses talks from Andrew Tindall, Mark Ritson and Jon Evans, chats with creator Henry about high-effort LinkedIn video, and interviews Jon Evans on going full-time with Uncensored CMO. Fiona shares Heineken Ireland’s Bronze Lion wins for The Pub That Refused To Die, while Digital Voice street interviews cover AI, retail media, and creators seeking long-term brand partnerships.00:00 Day Two Kickoff01:02 Paul Limbey from google01:28 Ending The Double Shift05:00 Frog In A Sock05:50 Scaling Beyond Pilots06:45 Performance And People08:07 Repeat To Lead Change09:31 System1 Party Recap10:35 Henry Hayes On LinkedIn Comedy14:45 Jon Evans Goes Solo20:54 Heinekens Bronze Lion with Fiona Curtin23:19 Croisette Street Interviews

Cannes Lions 2026 Day 1: Young Lions Kickoff, AI Takes Over the Croisette & Early WinnersOn day one of Cannes Lions 2026, host Conor Byrne covers the Young Lions competition as teams prepare for a 24-hour brief, and shares highlights from meetings and sessions across the festival. He recaps a coffee catch-up with Karen Nelson-Field and plans to feature her on the podcast, then reports recurring Cannes themes around AI, including agentic AI in ad tech and the importance of transparency and human-in-the-loop control discussed by Limelight leaders. From Adweek House, he notes talks on moving at “the speed of now,” AI enabling human connection (including Grindr and TD Bank), and sponsorship as a marketing lever. He also shares early Lions winners across Creative B2B and health categories, and summarizes research from WARC, Jellyfish, and Inseed on how creativity performs differently for humans versus LLMs.00:39 Young Lions Kickoff01:24 Coffee With Karen Nelson-Field02:19 Limelight on AI Transparency04:48 Adweek House Highlights06:31 Early Lions Winners Roundup07:59 Creativity in an LLM World12:21 Oshri on Limelight US Growth14:46 Ritson vs Sharp Debrief with Marc & V from the Sleeping Barber Podcast