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Scouting The Refs Podcast

Disappointed... but Not Surprised

Season 5, Ep. 26

On this week's Scouting the Refs Podcast: Longtime NHL referee Tom Kowal heads to the BC Hockey Hall of Fame, the NHL's Department of Player Safety issues fines to Minnesota Wild's Mats Zuccarello and Nashville Predators' Michael McCarron, and a suspension to Calgary Flames defenseman Martin Pospisil. No call, no fine after Colorado Avalanche's Josh Manson slashes Chicago Blackhawks' Connor Bedard -- or to New York Rangers' Matt Rempe for charging Toronto Maple Leafs' Ilya Lyubushkin. Plus, the New Jersey Devils get a penalty shot after Anaheim Ducks' Frank Vatrano intentionally dislodges the net, while the Toronto media thought the Maple Leafs should've been awarded one against the New York Rangers. (They shouldn't have.) #RefsPodcast


Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast

Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast


The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

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  • 12. Hit That Buzzer

    21:54||Season 6, Ep. 12
    Episode 226 / December 13, 2024:Reminiscing about the good ol' days when the National Hockey League would lock an old man in a plexiglass phone booth for a few hours with only a button to press... and where technology has gotten us in the NHL. Get the pool ready -- we've got Josh Norris picking up a $2000 fine for diving, and John Tortorella considering teaching his Flyers how to do front double somersaults off the three-meter springboard. Anaheim Ducks goaltender John Gibson couldn't keep the puck from going over the line, but somehow the broadcast was kept from getting a conclusive video feed of the play. Over in the PWHL, Maggie Flaherty was suspended two games for an illegal check to the head of Alina Muller, while Susan Tapani picked up a minor penalty for dangerously hitting New York's Sara Fillier into the bench. We also check out a little bit of the life of an NHL referee, including travel, routine, salaries, and bonuses. ------------------Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.comQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 
  • 11. Don't Cross the Lasers!

    22:14||Season 6, Ep. 11
    Episode 225 / December 7, 2024:Fines, fines, everywhere fines as the Boston Bruins’ Nikita Zadorov and Pittsburgh Penguins’ Evgeni Malkin each get $5000 fines. Buffalo Sabres’ Jeff Skinner pays up $2000 for diving/embellishment. Soo Greyhounds coachOver in the OHL, we’ve got a fine and suspension for a coach criticizing the refs, as well as a suspension for a teddy bear toss return; we offer up some alternative, more suitable punishments for Saginaw’s Michael Misa. Of course, we can’t go without Coach’s Challenges, with a close call on a Bruins’ offside and goaltender interference reviews at Winnipeg Jets vs. Buffalo Sabres (one allowed, one disallowed) and Edmonton Oilers vs. Columbus Blue Jackets (that stood, despite Hyman standing in the goal crease).  Reviewing the rule and how it’s applied, plus, who’s in the Situation Room anyway?Also, congrats to the ECHL’s Sydney Harris on becoming the first woman to referee a game in the league!------------------Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.comQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 
  • 10. Black Friday Special

    19:54||Season 6, Ep. 10
    Episode 224 / November 30, 2024:It’s a crazy NHL schedule this week thanks to the Thanksgiving Holiday!  On this week’s #RefsPodcast, the challenges of making - and staying in - the NHL as an official, Panthers’ Tkachuk called for interference without making contact, Timo Meier suspended for making plenty of contact with a cross-check to the face, questionable contact (if any) that led to an overtime goal by the Montreal Canadiens Nick Suzuki, and some contact below the belt from the Habs’ Brendan Gallagher on Columbus Blue Jackets defenseman Zach Werenski. Also, in the spirit of giving, should NHL Player Safety give a harsher sentence to suspendable offenses after the whistle?Plus, we remember NHL referee Mike Hasenfratz, who passed away this week at age 58.------------------Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.comQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 
  • 9. They Did The Thing!

    23:00||Season 6, Ep. 9
    Episode 223 / November 23, 2024:The NHL's Department of Player Safety finally did it... again. DOPS released a video explaining the rule around illegal checks to the head, including why a few players didn't get suspended.Of course, not all the players were so lucky.Toronto Maple Leafs winger Ryan Reaves picked up a five-game ban for an illegal check to the head of Edmonton Oilers defenseman Darnell Nurse, while Vegas Golden Knights defenseman Zach Whitecloud avoided a penalty - along with no fine and no suspenson - for a hard hit on Toronto's Matthew Knies. Player Safety also hit Winnipeg Jets defenseman Neal Pionk with a $5000 fine - the league maximum - for clipping.We also had a hand pass that cost the New York Rangers a goal and TWO penalties against the Calgary Flames - one for the failed challenge and another for unsportsmanlike conduct after Vincent Trocheck offered some feedback to the officials on a called hand pass later in the gameRule changes are in the air, as the PWHL makes some tweaks to their rulebook for thre upcoming season including the No Escape Rule. The Athletic also asked National Hockey League players for their thoughts around possible rule changes; some were good, others...not so much. Also, a scary injury sends referee Mitch Dunning off the ice on a stretcher. We'll break it all down on this week's Refs Podcast.------------------Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.comQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 
  • 8. High Dives, No Goals, and Trigonometry

    22:43||Season 6, Ep. 8
    Episode 222 / November 16, 2024: Dallas Stars captain Jamie Benn has his major penalty for boarding Boston Bruins defenseman Brandon Carlo reduced to a two-minute minor after review, Utah’s Michael Carcone picked up seven minutes in penalty after a one-sided scrap against Jack Drury of the Carolina Hurricanes.It’s a three-review game at Leafs vs. Caps, with a disallowed goal from Toronto’s Steven Lorentz that wasn’t a kick, another Leafs no-goal after a goal deflected with an allegedly high stick by Matthew Knies, and a goaltender interference call against the Washington Capitals. Perhaps some puck tracking and a little math would've helped out here. Anybody got a graphing calculator handy?Vancouver’s Nils Hoglander also has a goal wiped out for batting the puck into the net with his glove... but is that what they replays actually show? Take a look. Todd and Josh break down the plays, the reviews, and the rules. Also, we’ve got a dive! Matthew Tkachuk of the Florida Panthers doesn’t get a score but he does get two minutes – and very likely a warning from NHL Hockey Ops for embellishment.Plus, what will come out of the National Hockey League GM Meetings? Are more changes coming to the NHL’s Video Review process or to Coach’s Challenges?  We’ve got some thoughts on what to do - and what not to do - to improve the review process.------------------Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, BlueSky, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 
  • 7. Seeing Double

    35:50||Season 6, Ep. 7
    Episode 221 / November 9, 2024: We’re seeing double this week with two reviews - and two pucks on the ice. Plus, Todd and Josh are joined by Tyler Nimmons, director and executive producer of ECHL Unfiltered.The Avalanche had a goal taken away for offside, only to have it reinstated a moment later after a protest from the Avs’ bench delayed the faceoff long enough for the Situation Room to go back and check out a key detail that they missed under Rule 83.1.Islanders head coach Patrick Roy had his own complaints about coach’s challenges after his club lost a challenge for offside against the Penguins when the Situation Room ruled that Pittsburgh’s Noel Acciari was off the ice for a line change prior to the puck being touched in the attacking zone.The Lightning and Wild had two teams on the ice, two refs on the ice, two linesmen on the ice - and two pucks. How did this happen, and has it happened before?Jets goaltender Connor Hellebuyck disputed a non-call - and failed challenge - for goaltender interference against the Tampa Bay after Conor Geekie’s stick ended up under Hellebuyck’s pad. The NHL called the contact legal based on Rule 69.7, but did they get it right?NHL Player Safety has had a busy week, with a two-game suspension to the Avalanche’s Matt Stienburg and $5000 fines to Sabres defenseman Rasmus Dahlin and Flyers forward Garnet Hathaway. Nothing for the Penguins’ Noel Acciari for his dangerous reverse hit on Juraj Slafkovsky of the Canadiens, though. Also this week, linesman Kilian McNamara becomes collateral damage on a hit at Kings/Preds, and we review the upcoming suspension for Tyler Jeannot for his clearly illegal headshot on Canucks forward Brock Boeser.Finally, we’ll chat with Tyler Nimmons about ECHL Unfiltered, airing on the NHL Network and FloHockey.tv. The series goes behind the scenes with the ECHL's Idaho Steelheads, including a look at the raw reality of players, coaches, and communities that make up this dynamic league – as well as a behind-the-scenes look at their interactions with fans and officials…   All on this week’s #RefsPodcast!-------------------Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcastQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 
  • 5. Clock Check!

    18:45||Season 6, Ep. 5
    Let the coaches’ challenges begin! One week into the season, we’ve already seen challenges for goaltender interference, offside, and missed stoppages. We’ve got two minutes to Detroit Red Wings’ Christian Fisher for breaking his stick after an icing.  Brendan Dillon of the New Jersey Devils sees his major penalty for interference on Buffalo’s J.J. Peterka reduced to a minor, a Kraken goal from Jamie Oleksiak wiped out for an offside, Vancouver Canucks’ J.T. Miller answers the bell and eventually drops the gloves against Calgary’s Anthony Mantha after a clean hit injures Flames forward Kevin Rooney.Linesman Devin Berg takes a hard slash to the arm from Boston Bruins’ Max Jones, who picks up two for unsportsmanlike but avoids a penalty for physical abuse of officials.  Plus, a near-goal that didn’t quite beat the buzzer…   on this week’s #RefsPodcast.-------------------Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcastQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 
  • 4. High Hits and Beat Downs

    19:38||Season 6, Ep. 4
    Game on! The regular season is officially here. We've got goaltender interference in Columbus, possible penalty reviews, and ECHL rulebook adjustments.Toronto Maple Leafs' Cedric Pare's knee-on-knee hit on Montreal Canadiens' Patrik Laine, and the aftermath with Arber Xhekaj going after Pare and picking up instigator, aggressor, and fighting penalties along with a $3,385 fine. Xhekaj also made headlines - and picked up a major penalty - for a high hit on Tim Stutzle of the Ottawa Senators; did the refs and the league make the right call on that play? Plus, one more case of revenge on this week's #RefsPodcast, as both Nikita Kucherov and Conor Geekie sought vengeance against Florida Panthers prospect Josh Davies for a clean, legal hit on Tampa Bay Lightning captain Victor Hedman. Kucherov earned a minor penalty, while Geekie picked up 2-5-10 and a one game suspension for leaving the bench to start an altercation. -------------------Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcastQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 
  • 3. It's Preseason for the Situation Room, Too

    18:17||Season 6, Ep. 3
    On this week's #RefsPodcast: Cal Foote suspended by Slovakia, OHL adds 24 new officials, moving from lines to ref, Detroit Red Wings’ Dylan Larkin goes headhunting on Chicago Blackhawks’ A.J. Spellacy, New York Rangers’ Brennan Othmann delivers an unpenalized blindside hit on Boston Bruins’ Parker Wotherspoon who eventually picks up an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for throwing his helmet.A Philadelphia Flyers goal is disallowed against the Montreal Canadiens despite no actual interference on any goaltenders on the play. Plus, the OMHA and GTHL are expanding the ‘green armbands’ initiative for younger and newer hockey officials. Remember, no refs, no games! Todd and Josh also talk about referee jerseys and officials’ trading cards.-------------------Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcastQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He’s also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.