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The Real Science of Sport Podcast
Does Cardio Training Kill The "Gainz"? / Are Tennis Players Playing Too Much? / The True Prevalence of Doping? / Unlocking a New Performance Metric
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In this week's show, we tackle intriguing physiological questions raised by listeners, explore whether different types of exercise interfere with one another to undermine training benefits, and run the Spotlight across stories from the sports world.
In Digest this week (10:02):
- One of the great swimmers of the last decade, Ariane Titmus, has retired in her prime, leaving us to ponder the difference between athletes who go early and those who hang on. And cynically, those who switch to The Enhanced Games, which this week announced another former Olympian to its ranks. We discuss the carrot of the Enhanced Games, and how it capitalizes on incentives to entice athletes to join the movement
- We wonder whether tennis players are playing too much, and whether the data support claims made by players like Taylor Fritz, who believe a combination of the calendar, courts and balls are threatening their welfare?
- In doping, 21% of athletes competing for Great Britain at the Commonwealth Games admitted to doping in the previous twelve months. That's only slightly better than the results of the same survey in Spanish athletes, which put the figure at 36%. Ross and Gareth discuss why the true figure is likely higher, and what it means for doping and anti-doping's effectiveness
Our Center Stage topic (45:19) is a paper that explores a phenomenon called "the interference effect", where different types of exercise aimed at endurance or power/strength, have been thought to cancel each other out, undermining the adaptations from training. We explain the origins of that theory, and explore why things are not necessarily as simple as they seemed, with some practical advice for all those who like to mix their training types.
In Listener Lens (1:08:33), Ali Robinson showcases what Discourse has to offer, making a fantastic observation about our most recent guest, cyclist Andrew Feather, and his physiological capacity. He introduces us to concepts of anaerobic capacity, or the W prime, and Ross explains how we can all use this concept (runners too!) to understand our performance limits, and design effective interval training sessions, including a challenge to Gareth to test his capacity and design training.
And Finally, we introduce a paper on a metabolic ceiling that limits endurance athletes, with a promise to explore it in a future Spotlight edition
Show notes
- Taylor Fritz shares views on load in tennis in an X exchange with fans
- Tennis website with data on rally length and ace rate
- Surveys reveal a minimum prevalence of doping in athletes
- The original WADA investigation on doping prevalence, 2011
- Our Center stage paper - the interference effect for power and endurance training
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Ultimate Championship Day 3 Recap / Jefferson-Wooden in 21.47 / Kerr in Control / Dos Santos Delivers / Broadcast Underperformances
01:01:40|Our members are picking this apart on Discourse right now, and not always kindly! Join them for the price of a coffee a month, with ad-free listening and regular bonus exclusive showsShow notesOur recap of the final night of the Ultimate Championship in Budapest:(00:01:53) Jasmine Jones upsets the women's 400m hurdles field in 52.45, while the two who dominated the season may have slightly mistimed their peaks(00:05:57) Alison dos Santos wins the 400m hurdles in 45.98, the third fastest ever run, and we look at what Rai Benjamin's year on the flat may buy him next year.(00:13:10) A solo win for Likina Amebaw in the women's 5000m. She breaks away with a surge faster than world record pace after 2000m, but the broadcast fails to tell the story of her dominant performance(00:25:43) Daniel Sedjati pounces to win a somewhat surprising 800m in 1:41.91. We talk about Marco Arop, who did what was best for him, but also the other main contenders, while Wanyonyi found the 2026 season a week too long(00:32:13) The USA win the mixed 4x400m. We pick apart some of the fastest and slowest segments(00:36:17) Josh Kerr wins the 1500m in 3:29.35 without leaving fourth gear (after being seeded 13th in a 12 man field)!(00:40:41) Kenny Bednarek's 19.52s is the fifth fastest 200m in history, as he delivers what his 100m said he could(00:43:45) Melissa Jefferson-Wooden runs 21.47s to win the women's 200m. It's the third fastest women's 200m ever, and we ask which old sprint record goes first?(00:53:06) Josh Kerr would rather wear his sponsor's kit than his country's. We disagree, and discuss where the Ultimate Championships belong on the global calendar(00:59:26) Our verdict on the first Ultimate Championship, and when it should be held
Ultimate Championship Day 2 Recap / Kebinatshipi's 43.39 with a New Race Plan / Werro Controls the 800m to Cap a Dominant Season
56:05|Join us for the last night! Our members watch live together on Discord and pull it apart on Discourse afterwards, all for the price of a coffee a monthShow notesOur day two recap, and a preview of the final night of the Ultimate Championships:(00:01:02) Night two was a clear step up on day one, with six finals and qualifying races that actually mattered and produced intrigue.(00:01:34) Marileidy Paulinho wins the 400m in 49.07 to end an unbeaten season, and we wonder why Lieke Klaver keeps going out so hard.(00:06:53) Collen Kebinatshipi wins the men's 400m in 43.39s, with a new race plan, which he explains himself. A record number of sub-44s in a season, and a 42 second man in the making.(00:15:50) Klaudia Kazimierska outkicks Georgia Hunter Bell in a tactical 1500m, to establish herself as versatile in addition to the world leader.(00:16:15) World Athletics' AI predictions become a running joke, and we offer to fix them (again!).(00:27:42) Audrey Werro leads the 800m from the gun and wins as we predicted, albeit more slowly. Hodgkinson and Bol round out the concrete-ists. We discuss Werro's dominant race, the progressive wind-up, and Hodkingson's stuttering season.(00:34:31) Melissa Jefferson-Wooden's start beats Julien Alfred in the 100m, and Kenny Bednarek surprises Oblique Seville in the men's race.(00:38:37) We preview the final night, with both 400m hurdles finals, a wide open women's 5000m, Josh Kerr's 1500m to win however he pleases, and both 200m finals.(00:54:55) And finally, which event pays the most per second of work?
Ultimate Championship Day 1 Recap / Ingebrigtsen Reigns Supreme / Masai Russell's World Record Season
01:07:02|Watch it with us! Our members call the races live on Discord, and a small monthly pledge gets you the community and a bonus Applied show every week.Show notesOur day one recap, and a look ahead to a much bigger day two:(00:00:52) First impressions of the Ultimate Championship. The black infield, the pink sand, a schedule that felt rushed, and camera work that never quite showed us the athleticism. And don't get us started on the predictions(00:07:26) The money, at $150,000 to a winner and $40,000 for third, which beats winning a Diamond League final.(00:15:39) Our featured event, the men's 5000m. Jakob Ingebrigtsen breaks 13 minutes off a season wrecked by surgery, and we ask why his rivals let the middle kilometers drift.(00:34:43) Masai Russell caps a season of meeting records at every Diamond League she ran, plus the world record.(00:37:43) Ja'Kobe Tharp, this year's world record breaker, beats Cordell Tinch in the 110m hurdles. Do both hurdles records go again next year?(00:40:25) Day two brings six finals, starting with the 400s, where Marileidy Paulino and Collen Kebinatshipi look untouchable.(00:44:14) The women's 1500m, where tactical intrigue creates an open race(00:47:30) The women's 800m, our race of the weekend. Audrey Werro is unbeaten all year, and Femke Bol and Keely Hodgkinson are both coming for her.(00:56:00) The 100m finals, Melissa Jefferson-Wooden against Julien Alfred, and a men's field covered by six hundredths.(01:01:49) Prestige, or just the cash? Our verdict after one night
Incentives, Toxic Cultures and Doping in School Sport / “Cowards” and “Losers” on Track / It’s Too Damn Hot at the Vuelta
01:26:10|Become a Supporter and the Applied show lands in your feed every week, plus Discourse, where two of this week's arguments are already running.Doping in South African schoolboy rugby, the end of the track season, and racing in 44 degree heat at the Vuelta. In the news this week:(00:02:07) The track and field season is winding down, and the Diamond League final felt a little flat. The Ultimate Championships are next, and in a season where they follow the Diamond League, we wonder what purpose the Diamond League final actually serves?(00:10:05) Is the 800m a sprint or an endurance event? Some discussion popped up on Instagram, so we revist the 800m event, get into energy system contribution, why the 1983 world record has survived, and explore why every improvement has come in the first lap, all as part of making the case for the 800m as a sprint-endurance hybrid(00:22:49) Jakob Ingebrigtsen calls the Brussels field cowards and losers after Cole Hocker's training partner is put in as a pacemaker. Should a final have pacemakers at all?(00:31:08) Rumesh Pathirage wins the javelin, and we wonder why the event has the widest geographic spread in athletics(00:36:12) Doping in South African schoolboy rugby, and the perverse incentives that make it so hard to fix. A survey found one in ten schoolboys admitting steroid use, and two thirds said it was to look good rather than to perform. Almost half don't see it as cheating. We discuss the incentives that create toxic culture in many youth sports, with a specific focus on a recent piece on SA schoolboy rugby(00:54:12) Triathlete Joe Skipper gets 18 months for three whereabouts failures. We say that being disorganised is no defence(00:57:41) 44 degrees at the Vuelta, Matthew Brennan calling out the UCI, and whether shortening a stage or moving the race in the calendar helps(01:05:52) Carlos Alcaraz says he'll take longer breaks, tennis has a load management problem, and the one-handed backhand dies after a 149 year run(01:19:08) And finally, why can elite powerlifters squat more than they deadlift? Gareth wants your answer on Discourse
Two World Records in Zurich: Alison dos Santos and Masai Russell / Femke Bol's Fascinating 800m Transition / Cycling We Haven’t Seen for Ten Years in The Vuelta
01:19:31|Become a Supporter of the podcast, for the price of a coffee! You'll get ad-free listens, and our exclusive Applied show, including our upcoming dissection of Femke Bol's coach's insights on her amazing transition, as discussed on the show.Show notes(00:06:29) Alison dos Santos takes Karsten Warholm's 400m hurdles world record with 45.80s, catching Warholm by the fourth hurdle. We get into stride patterns, why Edwin Moses ran 13 strides and Kevin Young 12, which leg leads on the bend, and how shoes may have interacted with fatigue to drive hurdles forward more than sprinting.(00:15:59) Masai Russell's 12.09 is the first 100m hurdles world record set without a following wind since 1986. She was anticipated as the next WR holder, and she delivered, with the promise of faster and an 11.xx on the horizon.(00:24:35) Femke Broders-Bol takes the 800m out from the front against Audrey Werro, and why the tactic was right for her even though it suited Werro perfectly.(00:34:57) Bol revealed her LT and long run paces, to much amazement. But her coach Laurent Meuwly explained this in detail, and sets us up for a fascinating discussion on Bol's transition and ceiling. We talk about her statement that her endurance is "so bad for 800", why her 400m speed matters far more, and tee up our upcoming Applied show where we will dissect her coach's explanations to Citius Mag(00:27:23) Karsten Warholm on a chaotic calendar, with our thoughts(00:43:23) The Vuelta without Tadej Pogačar, where tactical mistakes carry a cost again, and cycling as we haven't seen for a decade. Plus, Tom Pidcock's mountain bike win.(00:52:11) Novak Djokovic's US Open exit, and a physio who refused to treat Terence Atmane's cramp. Is cramp an injury, or a conditioning problem?(00:58:22) Aaron Donald returns to the NFL at 35, and how much conditioning an athlete loses.(01:02:54) Yomif Kejelcha's 56:51 half marathon, and who breaks two hours this autumn? Ross reckons two might do it.(01:09:16) Jeff Browning's heart attack at UTMB, and Jenny Simpson's collapse. Fitness is protective, but it isn't immunity, with David Epstein's terrific article(01:13:35) South Africa against New Zealand, and racing robots in China, where our advice is to stop short of a wall.
19. Inside The World of Sports Broadcasting
01:33:22||Season 8, Ep. 19Briton Tony Davies has pretty much seen it all when it comes to television sport broadcasting. With over 20 years' experience in broadcast TV as a director, producer and writer, Davies has made a number of documentaries, including the RTS-nominated A Bat and Ball War, and worked on numerous sports events including the FIFA World Cup, Rugby World Cup, Olympic Games, Paralympics, Asian Games, Wimbledon, Open Championship and Tour de France.His broadcast experience opened the door to event management roles, and Davies has worked as Broadcast Venue Manager on the past three Rugby World Cups. He was also the Broadcast Project Manager for the Special Olympics in 2019. During his early years, he worked on the legendary sports magazine show, Trans World Sport and his interviewed some of the biggest names in world sport, including Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali, Maradona, Pele, a 13-year-old Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Wayne Gretzky, Kip Keino and even Whitney Houston and John Candy.In this episode we talk about how commentators are chosen, the economics of sports broadcasting, how modern technology is changing how we watch sports and what the future holds in the digital age for viewers.Davies lives in Nelson, New Zealand, where he lives with his wife and six (yes, it's not a typo !) children. He enjoys a number of sports including cycling, running, boxing, hunting, fishing and paddling. He is a frequent visitor to the UK, where he still has a base, and to Asia, where he does production work for the BBC.Also, for our Real Science of Sport Members, stick around after the show for some bonus content as we continued our chat with Tony and got even more fascinating insights, including his thoughts on social media influencers as broadcast 'partners', why he doesn't buy into the 'all access' documentaries so frequently made about sports events, and his choice of best documentary ever made. If you're not a member, a small monthly donation gets you that bonus content, ad-free listening, exclusive shows and membership of our Discourse community, of which Tony is a member too!
How can a 10,000m Runner Outsprint an 800m Runner? / Werro tops Hodgkinson, Again / Ansah's Missed Doping Test / Swimming World Record Watch
01:17:40|Not yet a member? Ad-free listening, the Discourse community, and a members' show every week, all for less than you spend on gels.Show notesOn the show this week, a European Championships wrap featuring Nadia Battocletti's astonishing 10,000m finish and Audrey Werro's win over Keely Hodgkinson, a German sprinter under a doping cloud, world records in the pool, and a follow-up on peptides.(00:01:41) A follow-up to the peptides show with Mike, and the thing Ross wishes he had said. The anecdote that BPC-157 failed to fix someone's Achilles is the human version of publication bias, because nobody ever tells you about the thing that didn't work.(00:12:23) The European Championships format and the broadcast, which featured more talking heads than athletics on the BBC, and an athletic programme with far too little action relative to downtime.(00:16:52) The women's 800m, where Werro beat Hodgkinson for her fourth sub-1:55 of the year, and Bol ran a national record in third. Whose trajectory looks best in the medium to long-term?(00:28:26) Batocletti's exceptional sprint finish, and a Tim Noakes tweet asking why she could speed up at all. Ross explains the end spurt, the reserve we all hold back, and why this particular race proves rather less than it appears to.(00:31:52) A stat from Jason Henderson: Batocletti's last 200m was 28.17, Werro's in the 800m was 29.11. Not a typo, and we explain why the fatigue of an 800m is a completely different animal, and speculate that it's probably more common than you'd think for the 10000m races to finish faster than the 800m ones(00:34:37) Andreas Almgren's solo 10,000m, run at 26:43 pace for the final 8.8km. Tactical optimization and a signal for a sub 26:30 in the future?(00:40:22) Amy Hunt's four golds, and a newspaper headline that poured cold water on them.(00:43:42) Owen Ansah wins European gold under a doping cloud, having refused a test because he had a flight to catch. What counts as "compelling justification", and why a 2016 case suggests he is in trouble.(00:52:26) The tragic death of Fin Tarling, the near-impossibility of policing a 1,300km course, and Adam Hansen's call for better helmets, which are certified only to 19.5km/h.(00:59:47) Swimming, where Kate Douglass broke the 50m freestyle world record twice in a day, a 19-year-old German went under 14:30 for the 1500m free, and Lani Pallister beat Katie Ledecky over 800m for the first time.(01:10:46) And finally, South Africa versus New Zealand has branded itself "Rugby's Greatest Rivalry". Gareth is not buying it. Ross offers the context for why it's about more than rugby, but also great rugbyNo news show next week, but there's an interview show planned for Monday, and the members' Applied show will take overtraining next week Friday.
18. The Science-Backed Truth About Peptides
01:20:33||Season 8, Ep. 18Everywhere you look people are talking about peptides. But what exactly are they, how do they work and how safe are they for human consumption? Mike and Ross review the evidence, discuss the politics that continue to muddy the waters around peptide efficacy and regulation, and examine the dangers of using untested peptides. The team also look into the role of the popular GLP-1's that have revolutionised diabetes and weight loss and the controversial BPC-17 peptide, touted as a miracle treatment for tissue repair.LinksThe Undark article that describes the history of BPC157More on the FDA and the complex regulation of peptidesA report on one of the FDA decisions about peptides - in this case BPC157 and KPVA paper from the discoverer of BPC157, who has published more than three-quarters of the research on itThe human safety study on BPC157, with its two participantsSystematic review of BPC157 evidence, suggesting promise but cautionA well researched article by Dr Eric Topol raising concerns about safety and regulatory decisionsExample of a public warning from a regulatory body, this one from South AfricaFollow the money - Fortune 500 piece on why deregulation could create a multibillion dollar marketBecome a Supporter of The Science of Sport for about the price of a coffee, or a gel, and help us keep the lights on, and Gareth's candle burning! Plus, you'll get ad free listening, a weekly Applied show, and a community that argues better than the internet does!
Kasia Niewiadoma's Mont Ventoux Masterclass / The Physiology of Losing a Yellow Jersey / A Doping Ban That Fits a Familiar Pattern
01:23:19|Become a Supporter of The Science of Sport for about the price of a coffee, or a gel, and help us keep the lights on, and Gareth's candle burning! Plus, you'll get ad free listening, a weekly Applied show, and a community that argues better than the internet does!Show notesOn the show today, the physiology behind the best women's Grand Tour we can remember, and a doping ban that fits a pattern we have seen many times before.(00:01:00) The Tour de France Femmes was, we think, the best Grand Tour either of us has watched in years, and we explore the nine stages of unpredictable racing that had us intrigued, even if the record will show that Demi Vollering won four of them.(00:05:56) Kasia Niewiadoma's ride on Mont Ventoux, at somewhere between 5.3 and 5.6 W/kg for the climb, is arguably the greatest climbing performance in the history of women's cycling, and we place it against the published power duration curves to show just how far outside the 90th percentile it sits.(00:17:19) Niewiadoma also posted 9.9 W/kg for 86 seconds, and from that single Strava screenshot we work out her FTP and her W', the anaerobic "battery", which lets us answer the question everyone argued about, namely whether being blocked into that corner actually cost her time to rival Vollering. We think the answer is unequivocally yes, and the maths and the principle of pacing explains why.(00:25:50) Praise for Puck Pieterse, sympathy for Marlen Reusser and Pauline Ferrand-Prévot, and a wonder about the 'mature' podium, and the prospect of a handover to the next generation in good time, just not 'our time'(00:41:41) The World U20 Championships, where a 17 year old ran 7:28 solo for 3000m, Tate Taylor doubled up in 9.94 and 19.83, and the ever-turning carousel of youth talent that is sometimes derailed by injury and sometimes deposed by the next young phenom(00:45:46) Jakob Ingebrigtsen returns and wins the European 5000m title in 13:16, off a slow race that played into his hands, and he explains, correctly, that a 5000m is not a test of speed but of how much speed you have left. He also promises he'll be "astonishingly a lot better" next time.(00:52:32) Jonah Koech gets a three year ban after an adverse passport finding. We explain how the biological passport actually works, why two suspicious samples means the values must have been wildly out of the norm, and why his 3.2% improvement should have invited scepticism long before the blood results did. Performance is not proof, but pattern recognition lives on, with this its latest illustration.(01:07:46) The WNBA has no eligibility policy, so two former NBA players have declared for the women's draft to prove the point. We discuss why choosing not to decide is itself a decision, how people are choosing to pretend a problem doesn't exist (or that it doesn't matter if it does), and contrast this with the WTA who have implemented screening for eligibility, and just gotten on with it(01:15:29) And finally, the origins of the steeplechase, which begins with two blokes, an Irish pub, a wager, and two church steeples. Plus a nutritionist on social media who watched 96 seconds and decided we had lost all credibility.