Share

cover art for Nature VS Nurture Pt 4: On the Couch with Michele Borba

Principle of Charity

Nature VS Nurture Pt 4: On the Couch with Michele Borba

Season 1, Ep. 31

In Principle of Charity on the Couch, Lloyd has an unfiltered conversation with the guest, throws them curveballs, and gets into the personal side of Principle of Charity.

 

 

 

~~

 

You can be part of the discussion @PofCharity on Twitter, @PrincipleofCharity on Facebook and @PrincipleofCharityPodcast on Instagram.

 

Your hosts are Lloyd Vogelman and Emile Sherman.

 

Find Lloyd @LloydVogelman on Linked in

 

Find Emile @EmileSherman on Linked In and Twitter.

 

This Podcast is Produced by Jonah Primo and Bronwen Reid

 

Find Jonah at jonahprimo.com & @JonahPrimo on Instagram. 

More episodes

View all episodes

  • 56. Are Jews White? Pt. 2 On the Couch

    18:46
    With David Baddiel and Simon Sebag Montefiore. In Principle of Charity on the Couch, Lloyd has an unfiltered conversation with the guests, throws them curveballs, and gets into the personal side of Principle of Charity.David Baddiel is a comedian, author, screenwriter and television presenter. In 1992, he performed to 12,500 people with Rob Newman at the Wembley arena in the UK’s first ever arena comedy show and was credited as turning comedy into “The New Rock’n’Roll”. Alongside The Lightning Seeds, the pair also wrote the seminal football anthem Three Lions. David has made several acclaimed documentaries, including the 2016 travel documentary David Baddiel On The Silk Road (Discovery) and in 2017, The Trouble with Dad (Channel4). More recently he created and presented Confronting Holocaust Denial and Social Media, Anger and Us on BBC Two.Recently he published the Sunday Times bestselling non-fiction polemic Jews Don’t Count, and due to the success of this book, David has also written and presented a documentary under the same title for Channel 4, which was released in late 2022. David’s most recent non-fiction book, The God Desire, was published earlier this year.Simon Sebag Montefiore is the internationally bestselling author of prize-winning books that have been published in forty-eight languages. CATHERINE THE GREAT & POTEMKIN was shortlisted for the Samuel Johnson Prize; STALIN: THE COURT OF THE RED TSAR won History Book of the Year Prize at the British Book Awards; YOUNG STALIN won the Costa Biography Award, the LA Times Book Prize for Biography, the Kreisky Prize and the Grand Prix de la Biographie Politique; JERUSALEM: THE BIOGRAPHY - A HISTORY OF THE MIDDLE EAST won the Jewish Book Council Book of the Year Prize and the Wenjin Book Prize in China; THE ROMANOVS: 1613-1918 won the Lupicaia del Terriccio Book Prize. He is the author of the Moscow Trilogy of novels: SASHENKA, RED SKY AT NOON and ONE NIGHT IN WINTER, which won the Political Fiction Book of the Year Award. His latest book is THE WORLD: A FAMILY HISTORY OF HUMANITY which has been a NYT and Sunday Times top ten bestseller.CREDITSYour hosts are Lloyd Vogelman and Emile Sherman This podcast is proud to partner with The Ethics CentreFind Lloyd @LloydVogelman on Linked inFind Emile @EmileSherman on Linked In and XFind Jonah at jonahprimo.com or @JonahPrimo on Instagram Find Danielle at danielleharvey.com.au  
  • 55. Are Jews White?

    49:06
    In this episode we spend time with David Baddiel and Simon Sebag Montefiore and ask -  ​​Where do Jews really come from? Are they white or people of colour? And how should we deal with the ethnic diversity within Jewish populations, with differences between Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Mizrachi Jews? Questions around whether Jews are white or people of colour has become a fraught issue. In an ideal world (or the ideal for at least most of us in the multicultural liberal west,) it shouldn’t matter. However, race, ethnicity and politics have always been intertwined, and this question takes us to some surprising places in the battle of racial politics.  In particular, both the far right and now the progressive left are drawing a lot of meaning from the question ‘are Jews white or people of colour?’, with Jews seemingly on the wrong side of each of their equations. They are non-white for the far right, and quintessentially white for the progressive left.  To help answer this question and more, we have two guests with very different lenses. Our first, Simon Sebag Montefiore, is one of the world’s leading historians. He outlines the historical, archaeological and genetic consensus, and any counterviews, on where Jews come from and how Jewish populations have moved through the ages. We also have author, comedian and documentarian David Baddiel to help with the cultural and political significance of this question, and to explore whether Jews are privileged enough to be ‘deemed’ white, regardless of their Middle Eastern heritage. BIOSDavid Baddiel is a comedian, author, screenwriter and television presenter. In 1992, he performed to 12,500 people with Rob Newman at the Wembley arena in the UK’s first ever arena comedy show and was credited as turning comedy into “The New Rock’n’Roll”. Alongside The Lightning Seeds, the pair also wrote the seminal football anthem Three Lions. David has made several acclaimed documentaries, including the 2016 travel documentary David Baddiel On The Silk Road (Discovery) and in 2017, The Trouble with Dad (Channel4). More recently he created and presented Confronting Holocaust Denial and Social Media, Anger and Us on BBC Two.Recently he published the Sunday Times bestselling non-fiction polemic Jews Don’t Count, and due to the success of this book, David has also written and presented a documentary under the same title for Channel 4, which was released in late 2022. David’s most recent non-fiction book, The God Desire, was published earlier this year. Simon Sebag Montefiore is the internationally bestselling author of prize-winning books that have been published in forty-eight languages. CATHERINE THE GREAT & POTEMKIN was shortlisted for the Samuel Johnson Prize; STALIN: THE COURT OF THE RED TSAR won History Book of the Year Prize at the British Book Awards; YOUNG STALIN won the Costa Biography Award, the LA Times Book Prize for Biography, the Kreisky Prize and the Grand Prix de la Biographie Politique; JERUSALEM: THE BIOGRAPHY -   A HISTORY OF THE MIDDLE EAST  won the Jewish Book Council Book of the Year Prize and the Wenjin Book Prize in China; THE ROMANOVS: 1613-1918 won the Lupicaia del Terriccio Book Prize. He is the author of the Moscow Trilogy of novels: SASHENKA, RED SKY AT NOON and ONE NIGHT IN WINTER, which won the Political Fiction Book of the Year Award.  His latest book is THE WORLD:   A FAMILY HISTORY OF HUMANITY which has been a NYT and Sunday Times top ten bestseller.
  • 54. Does Our Ethnic Heritage Matter? Pt. 2 On the Couch

    40:21
    Featuring the wonderful Benjamin Law and Professor John Rasko AO. In Principle of Charity on the Couch, Lloyd has an unfiltered conversation with the guests, throws them curveballs, and gets into the personal side of Principle of Charity.BIOS Benjamin Law is an Australian writer and broadcaster. He’s the author of The Family Law (2010), Gaysia (2013), the Quarterly Essay Moral Panic 101 (2017) and editor of Growing Up Queer in Australia (2019). Benjamin is also an AWGIE Award-winning screenwriter. He’s the co-executive producer, co-creator and co-writer of the Netflix comedy-drama Wellmania (2023), playwright of Melbourne Theatre Company’s sold-out play Torch the Place (2020), and creator and co-writer of three seasons of the award-winning SBS/Hulu/Comedy Central Asia TV series The Family Law (2016–2019). Benjamin works and lives on Gadigal Country, part of the Eora Nation (Sydney). He is a board member of Story Factory, committee member of the Jesse Cox Audio Fellowship and ambassador for Plan Australia, the Australian Literacy and Numeracy Foundation, Victorian Pride Centre, Bridge for Asylum Seekers and the Pinnacle Foundation. Professor John Rasko AO is internationally renowned as Australia’s pioneer in the clinical application of adult stem cells and gene therapies. As a clinical hematologist, pathologist and scientist with a renowned track record in gene and stem cell therapy, experimental haematology and molecular biology he has published over 220 academic papers. He is Deputy Director and leads the Program in Gene and Stem Cell Therapy Program at The Centenary Institute and is Head, Department of Cell & Molecular Therapies at Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney.CREDITSYour hosts are Lloyd Vogelman and Emile Sherman This podcast is proud to partner with The Ethics CentreFind Lloyd @LloydVogelman on Linked inFind Emile @EmileSherman on Linked In and XThis podcast is produced by Jonah Primo and Danielle HarveyFind Jonah at jonahprimo.com or @JonahPrimo on Instagram Find Danielle at danielleharvey.com.au  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information
  • 53. Does Our Ethnic Heritage Matter?

    54:28
    Featuring the wonderful Benjamin Law and Professor John Rasko AO In this episode with the help of a cultural critic and a genetic expert we consider how to best make sense of our ancestral past and the dangers of over identifying with tribes alongside the very real opportunities science is giving us to change our genetics. While we are all unique individuals, who of course come from families and a line of ancestors, in the end we are responsible for our own lives. While we may look to our ancestry for helpful hints as to how to live well, how much, if at all, should our heritage define or constrain us?  On a genetic level we have inherited some of the traits of our forebears, and even if, for example the colour of our skin, hair or facial features does express our genetic connection to race, that necessarily ‘mean’ something to us or should it be embraced? What about inherited genetic disorders, are there responsibilities around passing these on that need to be considered? While knowing which ‘tribe’ we come from can offer a deep sense of belonging, even pride, for some the reminder of our heritage is irrelevant or even shameful or simply unhelpful. The deep psychological pull towards identifying as part of a ‘tribe’ can be particularly true if we are discriminated against because of your heritage and background. If you’re attacked because you’re black, Islamic, Asian, Jewish, deaf etc, you quickly find that you are part of that tribe, whether it’s personally important to you or not. There are of course many dangers of over-identifying with tribes. Tribal thinking is always fraught with danger - any look at history will tell you that. These questions about whether our heritage matters, and what it means, have also become heavily politicised. We make sense of our lives through the stories we tell ourselves. Many of us seek out our ancestry, our tribe, as a way of knowing who we are. Yet inherited genes from past individuals, randomly shaken up in their journey across generations and finally passed from our parents to us are just that – random. So how much should our ethnic heritage matter, and is it the most important part of our individual stories?  BIOS Benjamin Law is an Australian writer and broadcaster. He’s the author of The Family Law (2010), and editor of Growing Up Queer in Australia (2019). Benjamin is also an AWGIE Award-winning screenwriter. He’s the co-executive producer, co-creator and co-writer of the Netflix comedy-drama Wellmania (2023), playwright of Melbourne Theatre Company’s sold-out play Torch the Place (2020), and creator and co-writer of three seasons of the award-winning SBS/Hulu/Comedy Central Asia TV series The Family Law (2016–2019). Professor John Rasko AO is internationally renowned as Australia’s pioneer in the clinical application of adult stem cells and gene therapies. As a clinical hematologist, pathologist and scientist he has published over 220 academic papers. He is Deputy Director and leads the Program in Gene and Stem Cell Therapy Program at The Centenary Institute and is Head, Department of Cell & Molecular Therapies at Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney.CREDITSYour hosts are Lloyd Vogelman and Emile Sherman This podcast is proud to partner with The Ethics CentreFind Lloyd @LloydVogelman on Linked inFind Emile @EmileSherman on Linked In and XFind Jonah at jonahprimo.com or @JonahPrimo on Instagram Find Danielle at danielleharvey.com.au  
  • 52. Libertarian vs Indigenous Ways, Pt. 2 On the Couch

    28:58
    In Principle of Charity on the Couch, Lloyd has an unfiltered conversation with the guests, throws them curveballs, and gets into the personal side of Principle of Charity.BIOSTyson Yunkaporta is an Aboriginal scholar, founder of the Indigenous Knowledge Systems Lab at Deakin University in Melbourne, and author of Sand Talk. His work focuses on applying Indigenous methods of inquiry to resolve complex issues and explore global crises.John Humphreys is the Chief Economist at The Australian Taxpayers' Alliance. He has worked previously as a policy analyst for the Australian Treasury. John was the founder of the Australian Libertarian Society, the Liberal Democratic Party (now called "Libertarian Party"), and the Friedman Conference. He also ran a research centre and education charity in Cambodia for many years, for which he was awarded a knighthood in 2016. CREDITSYour hosts are Lloyd Vogelman and Emile Sherman This podcast is proud to partner with The Ethics CentreFind Lloyd @LloydVogelman on Linked inFind Emile @EmileSherman on Linked In and XThis podcast is produced by Jonah Primo and Danielle HarveyFind Jonah at jonahprimo.com or @JonahPrimo on Instagram Find Danielle at danielleharvey.com.au  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information
  • 51. Libertarian vs Indigenous Ways: Which is the better model for society?

    55:34
    In this episode we contrast two very different ways of seeing the world — Libertarianism and Indigenous Ways, to consider which model is better for society. Libertarianism, with a focus on the version of this political philosophy that came about in the second half of the 20th century, usually associated with the centre right, does in fact cut across traditional left /right lines. It sees our individual liberty, our freedom as the most important political value. It's a political philosophy that values civil liberties, competitive markets, private property and free speech. It sees the government as a poor substitute for voluntary community and dislikes government intervention. Not just because governments may be corrupt or inefficient, but because of the real threat of force that lies at the base of all laws to coerce us to do what we may not want to do. Libertarianism sits on the extreme, but still well within a general Western enlightenment worldview with other pillars like capitalism and free functioning markets. One could say that the purpose that sits behind this entire worldview is the flourishing of the individual. In contrast to libertarianism we consider Indigenous Australian knowledge systems, which echo many First Nations’ ways of seeing the world. Here the individual is just one node in a hugely complex system of relationships that extend to the family, to community, to ancestors, to future generations, to animals and to the land — which is also seen to be alive and sentient — and to the creation stories themselves. While this system recognises we have individual desires and we should honour our individuality, it is driven by prioritising our relationships and obligations to all those groups mentioned above with an overarching sense of custodianship for a story that started in creation and will continue long after we are gone. There are some interesting crossovers between the two worldviews, such as a distrust of centralised top-down systems of control and a belief in the power of emergent systems that come from the web of human interactions, however these are two very different ways of seeing the role of the individual and their relationships and responsibilities in and to society. This episode contains some coarse language.BIOSTyson Yunkaporta is an Aboriginal scholar, founder of the Indigenous Knowledge Systems Lab at Deakin University in Melbourne, and author of Sand Talk. His work focuses on applying Indigenous methods of inquiry to resolve complex issues and explore global crises.John Humphreys is the Chief Economist at The Australian Taxpayers' Alliance. He has worked previously as a policy analyst for the Australian Treasury. John was the founder of the Australian Libertarian Society, the Liberal Democratic Party (now called "Libertarian Party"), and the Friedman Conference. He also ran a research centre and education charity in Cambodia for many years, for which he was awarded a knighthood in 2016. CREDITSYour hosts are Lloyd Vogelman and Emile Sherman This podcast is proud to partner with The Ethics CentreFind Lloyd @LloydVogelman on Linked inFind Emile @EmileSherman on Linked In and XThis podcast is produced by Jonah Primo and Danielle HarveyFind Jonah at jonahprimo.com or @JonahPrimo on Instagram Find Danielle at danielleharvey.com.au  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information
  • 50. Is Wisdom Helpful? Pt.2 On the Couch with Krista Tippett

    19:44
    In Principle of Charity on the Couch, Lloyd has an unfiltered conversation with the guests, throws them curveballs, and gets into the personal side of Principle of Charity.Krista Tippett is a Peabody-award winning broadcaster, National Humanities Medalist, and New York Times bestselling author. She created and hosts On Being, which has won the highest honors in broadcast, Internet and podcasting. Her On Being Project is evolving to meet the callings of the post-2020 world — and to accompany the generative people and possibilities within this tender, tumultuous time to be alive. Krista grew up in a small town in Oklahoma, attended Brown University, worked as a young journalist and diplomat in Cold War Berlin, and later received a Master of Divinity from Yale. Her most recent book is Becoming Wise: An Inquiry into the Mystery and Art of Living. Your hosts are Lloyd Vogelman and Emile Sherman. This podcast is proud to partner with The Ethics Centre.Find Lloyd @LloydVogelman on Linked inFind Emile @EmileSherman on Linked In and Twitter.This Podcast is Produced by Jonah Primo, Bronwen Reid and Danielle HarveyFind Jonah at jonahprimo.com or @JonahPrimo on InstagramFind Danielle at danielleharvey.com.au
  • 49. Spotlight with Krista Tippett: Is Wisdom Helpful?

    30:50
    On this special Spotlight episode the US broadcaster/podcaster/writer Krista Tippett joins Emile and Lloyd to discuss wisdom and meaning. Krista’s On Being radio show and podcast has enriched the lives of its many millions of listeners over decades as has her best-selling book Becoming Wise: An Inquiry into the Mystery and Art of LivingAs host Emile Sherman said of Krista, “Our aim on the podcast is to have true expert guests, guests who are often scholars, academics, or advocates steeped in the knowledge of a particular issue and even our discussions around the principle of charity, about how to talk with others whose views we disagree with, are often evidence based. We draw on the latest research in psychology and other disciplines to teach us how to most effectively engage with others, to seek the truth rather than win the fight. “In the extraordinary Krista Tippett we have a guest who’s less interested in knowledge, than in mystery, less focused on truth than on meaning and less obsessed with reason than with resonance.It’s a privilege to see how her worldview can be applied to the principle of charity, to the way we approach, listen to and interact with others.”Krista Tippett is a Peabody-award winning broadcaster, National Humanities Medalist, and New York Times bestselling author. She created and hosts On Being, which has won the highest honors in broadcast, Internet and podcasting. Her On Being Project is evolving to meet the callings of the post-2020 world — and to accompany the generative people and possibilities within this tender, tumultuous time to be alive. Krista grew up in a small town in Oklahoma, attended Brown University, worked as a young journalist and diplomat in Cold War Berlin, and later received a Master of Divinity from Yale. Her most recent book is Becoming Wise: An Inquiry into the Mystery and Art of Living.Your hosts are Lloyd Vogelman and Emile Sherman. This podcast is proud to partner with The Ethics Centre.Find Lloyd @LloydVogelman on Linked inFind Emile @EmileSherman on Linked In and Twitter.This Podcast is Produced by Jonah Primo, Bronwen Reid and Danielle HarveyFind Jonah at jonahprimo.com or @JonahPrimo on InstagramFind Danielle at danielleharvey.com.au