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Distribution, Relationships, and the Real ROI of Podcasting with Greg Wasserman
Season 1, Ep. 25
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Why do so many podcasters focus on monetization before they’ve solved distribution and audience growth?
About Greg Wasserman
This week on PodBiz, we’re joined by Greg Wasserman, Head of Relationships at RSS.com, to break down how podcasters actually build leverage in the industry and why relationships, not just downloads, are at the core of sustainable growth.
Greg challenges the industry’s obsession with ads and sponsorships as the only path to revenue. Instead, he explains why podcasting works best when it’s treated as part of a broader business strategy, whether you’re a creator, agency, or brand. From audience growth to distribution gaps to relationship-driven ROI, Greg offers a clear framework for thinking about podcasting as a long-term asset.
As he puts it:
“You want more money? Then go focus on how do you grow your audience.”
He also emphasizes that many podcasters limit their growth by staying inside a single ecosystem rather than taking advantage of open distribution through RSS.
This episode is a practical conversation about where value is actually created in podcasting and how creators can stop leaving opportunity on the table.
- The three questions every podcaster asks: distribution, audience, money
- Why monetization should not be the starting point
- The hidden cost of limiting your show to one ecosystem
- Podcasting as a relationship-driven business tool
- Why most podcasters misunderstand ROI
- How agencies leave money on the table
- Improving as a host to grow audience trust
- Community building as a growth strategy
- Why relationships are a form of currency in podcasting
- What excites Greg most about where the industry is headed
About Greg Wasserman
Greg Wasserman is the Head of Relationships at RSS.com, where he leads creator and partner engagement across the podcast ecosystem. With a background in media sales, platform growth, and community building, Greg is known for connecting people, building long-term relationships, and helping podcasters think strategically about growth, distribution, and monetization.
Find Greg on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/gregwasserman/
(01:18) Introducing Greg Wasserman
(01:20) Where the money in podcasting really comes from
(02:45) Podcasting as a business versus a media company
(03:12) Rethinking monetization beyond ads
(04:56) Why being a good host matters
(05:17) Greg’s path into podcasting
(06:00) Learning podcast distribution from platforms
(06:56) The three questions podcasters always ask
(07:38) Distribution as the fastest path to audience growth
(08:13) Relationships as a career strategy
(09:18) Where agencies leave money on the table
(11:00) Improving your craft as a host
(13:27) Building creator communities at RSS.com
(15:59) Serving creators through feedback and partnerships
(16:30) What Greg would do differently starting today
(19:11) Why this is an exciting moment for podcasting
“Life is about time and relationships.”
“If you want more money, make sure you have those other 30 percent of your audience.”
“Relationships can be currency. The more conversations you have, the more opportunities appear.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
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31. Small Buckets of Money and Big Direct Deals with Matt Cundill
41:43||Season 1, Ep. 31Where is the money in podcasting when you’re not chasing a big network buy?This week on PodBiz, NJ sits down with Matt Cundill (AKA Captain Canada), founder of Sound Off Media, longtime radio and podcast strategist to talk about what monetization really looks like for independent podcasters.Matt breaks down what he calls “small buckets of money” and why the biggest revenue often comes from one or two direct advertiser relationships rather than large agency buys. He explains how newsletters, websites, and owned inventory often get overlooked, and why podcasters should think beyond just pre-roll and mid-roll ads.He also shares insights on Canadian podcast markets, exportability, and why comparison across borders can distort expectations.As Matt puts it:“The best money you're going to find is going to be the deals that you cut individually with an advertiser or a client or a partner.”The conversation moves into audience development, consumption data, and what makes a show sustainable long term. From three-year audience timelines to personality-driven growth, this episode is a practical look at podcasting as a business.In this episode, we cover:• Why “small buckets of money” add up • The one or two advertisers every show should focus on first • How to leverage newsletters and inventory beyond the audio feed • Why Canadian podcasts face different scaling realities • The three-year rule for building an audience • Consumption metrics and why 80 percent matters • Personality, hosting skills, and mic discipline • Taking breaks without killing momentum • Why video is a marketing tool more than a revenue engineEpisode Chapters (01:55) Where’s the money in podcasting (04:15) The one or two advertisers that matter most (06:21) Grants, foundations, and brand fit (09:51) From radio to podcasting (11:18) Dynamic ad insertion and monetization (17:22) Three years to build an audience (23:08) Consumption data and tightening your show (27:18) Canadian markets and scale realities (34:33) What Matt would do differently (37:35) Video as marketing and the coming equipment glutAbout Matt CundillMatt Cundill is the founder of Sound Off Media, a podcast network and consulting company based in Canada. With a background in radio programming and voiceover, Matt helps podcasters refine their sound, grow their audiences, and build sustainable advertising models.Find him on socials at @mattcundill on X, Instagram and Facebook. Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“Small buckets of money is what I like to call it.”“The best money you're going to find is going to be the deals that you cut individually with an advertiser or a client or a partner.”“It takes three years to build an audience.”“We wanna get you to 80 percent consumption.”
30. Where Power, Subscriptions, and Distribution Meet with Patrick Hill of Disctopia
43:03||Season 1, Ep. 30This week on PodBiz, NJ sits down with Patrick Hill, Founder and CEO of Disctopia, to unpack where power, money, and influence are converging across podcasting, music, and creator platforms.Patrick brings a platform-level view of the industry. He explains why monetization is increasingly tied to access, subscriptions, and distribution control, how opinion-based media has become financially powerful, and why long-form content remains the engine behind sustainable revenue.From creator subscriptions to streaming versus RSS, from indie hustle to enterprise platforms, this conversation connects the cultural shifts shaping podcasting to the business models emerging underneath them.In this episode, we cover:Why the money sits between content creation and distributionHow subscriptions and exclusive access are reshaping monetizationWhy people now pay for opinions, not just informationThe role of community and cause-driven creators in building leverageHow Disctopia evolved from music streaming into podcast hostingStreaming vs RSS and where Patrick believes the industry is headingWhy long-form content is where revenue is actually generatedThe relationship between short-form visibility and long-form incomeKey moments: (01:44) Where Patrick sees money concentrated in podcasting (02:14) Subscriptions, exclusivity, and creator access (05:36) Entertainment, opinion, and monetization power (07:31) Creators, causes, and niche communities (12:46) How Disctopia entered podcasting (17:47) Streaming vs RSS and future formats (22:08) Long-form content as a revenue driver (36:13) What Patrick would do differently building todayAbout Patrick HillPatrick Hill is the Founder and CEO of Disctopia, a creator-first platform supporting podcasting, music, audiobooks, and streaming distribution. With a background in information technology and software development, Patrick has built Disctopia into a multi-format platform serving independent creators, enterprise clients, and institutions. His work focuses on helping creators distribute content, build community, and get paid.Additional PodBiz BuzzPatrick on where real leverage comes from:“Long form gets you paid. Short form gets you noticed.”Patrick on subscriptions and access:“People are paying exclusive pricing for opinions. That’s where the money is.”Patrick on creators and power:“Money and power are starting to live in independent voices.”
29. From Indie to Industry: How Michael Osborne Builds Partner-Ready Podcasts
45:56||Season 1, Ep. 29What does it actually take for an independent podcast to become partner-ready? This week on PodBiz, NJ speaks with Michael Osborne about how shows move from passion projects to major media partnerships and why that transition is almost never fast or accidental.Michael has built and produced multiple podcasts that successfully partnered with organizations like Smithsonian Magazine, PRX, and Wondery. Across those projects, he’s seen firsthand how patience, clarity of concept, and real audience feedback matter far more than chasing trends.As he explains:“Minimum viable product and a partner-ready show are not the same thing.”Throughout the conversation, Michael and NJ unpack what creators often misunderstand about timing, originality, and the work required to make a podcast attractive to partners without losing its creative core. They also explore why most successful deals come years into a show’s life and how audience research, not downloads alone, shapes long-term growth.This episode offers a grounded look at podcasting as a business built on iteration, collaboration, and trust.Key Topics Discussed• The difference between indie experimentation and industry readiness• How podcasts evolve into partner-ready properties• Why originality of concept and host both matter• Audience research as a growth and development tool• Why partnerships take years, not months• Increasing value density in audio storytelling• The role of producers and collaborators in refining shows• Balancing creative fulfillment with sustainable business goalsAbout Michael OsborneMichael Osborne is a seasoned podcast producer and consultant based in Austin, Texas. He launched his first show, Generation Anthropocene, in 2011 during his PhD studies in climate science at Stanford University. The podcast later partnered with Grist and Smithsonian Magazine. Michael went on to develop Raw Data, a narrative podcast that collaborated with PRX and PRI, and Famous & Gravy, a dead celebrity biography podcast currently partnering with Wondery. His work has earned multiple Webby and Signal Awards, including for Famous & Gravy, Black Women of Amherst College, and Stanford’s From Our Neurons to Yours. Michael has also delivered two TEDx talks and operates 14th Street Studios, a production and consulting firm in downtown Austin.Connect with Michael on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-c-osborne/Threads: https://www.threads.net/@famousandgravyFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100076654703402Episode Moments(01:04) Michael’s path from academia to podcasting(03:13) Three shows, three different partnerships(05:48) Originality and value density in podcast concepts(10:51) Why partner timelines are longer than creators expect(14:56) MVP versus mature, partner-ready shows(16:20) Gathering meaningful audience feedback(19:01) Interactive formats and listener insight(24:41) Producing podcasts as a long-term practice(31:25) Sustainability and creative careers(38:43) How partners evaluate podcast projects(44:01) The future of audio-first storytellingSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“A lot of people think success happens quickly, but most of the meaningful progress happens quietly over time.”“Audience feedback tells you things downloads never will.”“The shows that last are the ones that keep learning.”
28. Portfolio Thinking and Sustainable Monetization in Podcasting with Danielle Desir Corbett
45:04||Season 1, Ep. 28What does sustainable monetization actually look like for independent podcasters today? This week on PodBiz, NJ speaks with Danielle Desir Corbett about how creators can build resilient podcast businesses by thinking beyond single revenue streams and treating their work as a portfolio.Danielle shares how her approach to monetization has evolved over time, why relying on one income source is risky, and how creators can design businesses that compound value even when the market shifts. Rather than chasing trends or short-term wins, she explains the importance of owning assets, nurturing community, and staying flexible.As she puts it: “When one income stream pretty much dies on the vine and dries up, I can pivot and shift and refocus. That’s been my reality for 2025.”The conversation explores how podcasting fits into a broader creator ecosystem that includes newsletters, consulting, syndication, grants, and community-driven products. Danielle also walks through the creation of Grants for Creators and why helping other creatives access funding has become a meaningful and sustainable part of her business.This episode is a practical look at how independent podcasters can build long-term stability by thinking in portfolios, not paydays.Key Topics Discussed• What portfolio thinking means for podcasters • Why single-stream monetization is fragile • Relationship-driven brand deals and pitching • Pricing and packaging campaigns as an indie creator • Selling community as a business asset • Building and monetizing Grants for Creators • Airline syndication and evergreen content value • Storytelling as a long-term growth strategyAbout Danielle Desir CorbettDanielle Desir Corbett is a podcast strategist and the host of The Thought Card and Road Trip Ready. She is the creator of Grants for Creators, a paid newsletter that curates funding opportunities for podcasters, journalists, and creatives. Danielle previously founded and sold the Women of Color Podcasters community and works at the intersection of podcasting, personal finance, and travel.Websites: https://danielledesir.com/ https://thoughtcard.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedaniellecorbettEpisode Moments (01:21) Where Danielle sees money in podcasting today (04:00) Why portfolio thinking matters (06:03) How brand deals really work for indie creators (10:21) Pricing and packaging creator value (14:59) Danielle’s path into podcasting (19:01) Building and selling a creator community (27:40) Inside Grants for Creators (38:03) Airline syndication and evergreen ROI (41:51) What Danielle would build first todaySome Additional PodBiz Buzz“Close mouths don’t get fed.”“Just because you’re pivoting doesn’t mean what you built isn’t valuable.”“Podcasting has been one of the best investments I’ve made in myself.”
27. The Business of Podcasting at Scale with Colin Anderson
51:10||Season 1, Ep. 27What changes when podcasting moves from experimentation to infrastructure?This week on PodBiz, NJ speaks with Colin Anderson, Head of Network Development at the Office Ladies Podcast Network, about how podcasting has evolved into a serious commercial business and what that means for creators, networks, and advertisers operating at scale.Colin brings a perspective shaped by years inside podcast production, strategy, and network development. He explains why more advertiser money is flowing into podcasting than ever before, how networks think about audience value beyond downloads, and why community still matters even as the industry becomes more corporate.As he puts it: “The money’s here. There’s more money than ever.”The conversation also explores how podcasting culture has shifted from its early indie roots to a more structured, professionalized industry. Colin reflects on what has been gained, what has been lost, and how creators and operators should think about sustainability, loyalty, and long-term value in a changing ecosystem.Key Topics Discussed• Why advertiser demand in podcasting continues to grow • How podcast networks evaluate shows and revenue potential • Audience value beyond scale and raw download numbers • The role of community inside networked podcast businesses • Podcasting’s shift from indie culture to corporate infrastructure • Loyalty, labor, and evolving work culture in media • The influence of legacy media on podcast growth • What the next phase of podcast networks looks likeAbout ColinColin Anderson is Head of Network Development at the Office Ladies Podcast Network, where he works on network strategy, partnerships, and show development. He has spent his career across podcast production, monetization, and network leadership, giving him a clear view of how the industry has matured.Website: colinanderson.infoLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrcolinanderson/Episode Moments(01:02) The current state of podcast monetization (07:20) Community and audience value at scale (12:21) Colin’s path through the podcast industry (17:53) How podcast networks have changed (24:54) Work culture and loyalty in media (30:50) Legacy media’s role in podcast growth (37:08) The outlook for creators inside networks (44:06) Navigating podcasting as a businessSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“Funny is funny, but it’s different to different people.”“Podcasting could support journalism in a way that print has failed.”
26. Breaking Out Of Walled Gardens and France's Podcasting Culture with Sarah Toporoff
43:02||Season 1, Ep. 26Is the secret to podcasting success hidden in the French market?In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Sarah Toporoff, Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner, about the evolving landscape of audience growth and monetization. Sarah discusses how her team is helping publishers break podcasting out of "walled garden" platforms and into the wider web, transforming organic traffic into loyal listeners.As she puts it:"Your audio engineer can't be your audience developer. Like, it just doesn't work that way."Here are some insightful moments within the episode:• Where the money is in podcasting: Why Sarah argues the true money is in the audience and why • France is a uniquely booming market for branded content.• Breaking the walled gardens: How to reach the billions of people online who aren't currently using dedicated podcast apps.• The "Owned, Earned, and Paid" framework: Why creators need to look beyond organic growth to reach new heights.• The "Death of the Download": Navigating the controversy of auto-play audio and why "guaranteed listens" are a better metric.• Professionalizing audience strategy: Moving past the "if we build it, they will come" naivete to implement real media strategy.• Awareness vs. Performance: Understanding the spectrum between generating impressions and building a loyal following.About Sarah ToporoffSarah Toporoff is the Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner. Based in Paris, she has over a decade of experience in media innovation, having worked in journalism innovation, radio product development, and publisher partnerships. She is a self-described "audio girly" who specializes in helping publishers and brands maximize their reach through contextual content recommendation.Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:04) Where is the money in podcasting? (01:29) What is Disco by Headliner? (03:27) Breaking podcasts out of "walled gardens" (04:49) Why audio was left behind by the web (06:33) Case Study: Doubling Al Jazeera’s audience overnight (10:52) The importance of paid media in a launch strategy (11:55) The controversy of auto-play and inflated downloads (13:34) The "booming" branded podcast culture in France (16:52) Sarah’s journey from English teacher to legacy media (23:32) Debunking the "If we build it, they will come" myth (26:34) The shift toward dedicated audience growth teams (30:06) Awareness vs. Performance: What are you actually buying? (33:15) Why you can’t buy loyalty (38:30) Real-world budget benchmarks for podcast growth (41:25) Riding the video wave without losing audio's soulSome Additional PodBiz Buzz: "The money is an audience."•"Real media has strategy and budget."•"A solid media plan is not going to fix a bad show." "My job is everything that happens after you hit publish."
24. Inside Europe’s Emerging Podcast Market with Andreea Coscai
28:23||Season 1, Ep. 24What does sustainable podcast growth look like inside a fragmented, multilingual, rapidly developing European market?This week on PodBiz, Andreea Coscai breaks down how creators across Europe are building audiences, reaching listeners across borders, and monetizing through community-first strategies. As the founder of Eurowaves, Marketing Lead at Tink Media, and a key voice in global creator communities, Andreea offers a grounded look at what independent podcasters need to understand about the European landscape.As she puts it, marketing is not optional:“If you want to monetize your work, you have to make sure that you're investing as much in your marketing as you are in your production.”She also explains why connection and cultural alignment matter more than follower count:“It can be discouraging or nerve-wracking or risky, but you can also look at it as who else is doing this really, and how cool is it. Let me try.”This episode is a thoughtful, realistic look at what it takes for creators to grow in a market defined by nuance, collaboration, and diversity.Key Topics Discussed• How European creators build audiences across language and culture• Why marketing and audience clarity matter more than scale• Community-first growth and the rise of Eurowaves• How Tink Media supports podcasters through realistic promo systems• What creators misunderstand about social media and discoverability• Sponsorship reality in smaller or emerging markets• The role of grants, co-productions, and cross-border collaboration• Why global thinking benefits every independent creatorAbout Andreea CoscaiAndreea is the founder and writer of Eurowaves, Marketing Lead at Tink Media, newsletter and community coordinator at EarBuds Podcast Collective, and an independent podcast producer. She works across audience development, marketing strategy, and creator support throughout Europe and beyond.Connect with AndreeaEurowaves: https://eurowaves.substack.com/Events: https://eurowaves.substack.com/p/top-podcasting-eventsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreea-coscai/Pod.Vision: https://pod.vision/Episode Moments(03:29) Value alignment for Patreon and community support(04:08) How Eurowaves began and why Europe needed it(05:23) Community gaps in the European podcast space(06:57) What podcasters get wrong about audience development(08:54) Getting into podcasting through production and community(13:21) Cross-platform thinking for modern creators(14:42) Value packaging and sponsorship fit(16:50) Local markets, local sponsors, local wins(18:38) The fragmented but rich European ecosystem(19:48) How grants and co-productions shape opportunity(20:55) Storytelling across cultures(22:24) Learning from the U.S. while building something distinct(23:46) What Andreea would approach differently today(27:44) What excites her most about Europe’s creator futureSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“It can be discouraging or nerve-wracking or risky, but you can also look at it as who else is doing this really, and how cool is it. Let me try.” —Andreea Coscai
23. Independent Creators, Monetization, and Sustainable Growth with Andrew Weiss
27:59||Season 1, Ep. 23Where’s the money in podcasting for independent creators?This week on PodBiz, we talk with Andrew Weiss, Director of Partnerships at Podfest Expo, about the real paths to monetization for indie podcasters. Andrew works directly with thousands of creators through Podfest’s global community, and he brings a grounded, practical view of how shows grow, how they earn, and why some creators thrive while others fade out.Andrew explains why niche audiences consistently outperform broad ones, what strong brand alignment looks like, and how smaller shows win high-value sponsorships by understanding exactly whom they serve. He shares examples from the Podfest ecosystem, including a produce-industry podcast earning significant revenue because it reaches a high-intent audience brands care about.As he puts it:“More sponsor money is being put into podcasts every day. The riches are in the niches.”Andrew also talks about the mindset and systems that keep creators consistent. He breaks down batching, workflow design, community support, and why many podcasters underestimate the value of environment. His message is direct: when creators combine structure with a defined purpose, growth becomes achievable no matter their starting point.Another reminder he returns to:“You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.”This episode is full of practical insights for anyone building a show meant to last.Key Topics Discussed• How independent podcasters earn through niche audiences and alignment• Monetization beyond ads: lead generation, partnerships, coaching, and services• Why creators should define success before launching• Preventing burnout and podfade through systems and batching• How community and collaboration accelerate growth• Sponsorship trends, audience quality, and brand expectations• Why mindset, structure, and environment influence creator success• What Podfest creators are doing that works todayAbout Andrew WeissAndrew Weiss is the Director of Partnerships at Podfest Expo, where he leads sponsor relations, event operations, and community initiatives that support independent creators worldwide. He is also the host of Rapid Results with Andrew Weiss and brings a decade of experience in entrepreneurship, coaching, and creator development.Connect with AndrewSocials: @theandrewjweissEpisode Moments(00:05) Sponsor growth and why niche shows win(02:03) Where the money is for indie creators(03:10) Monetization beyond advertising(04:06) Andrew’s path into podcasting(07:16) How Podfest grew virtual creator events(08:57) Lead generation and brand alignment(11:15) Mindset, grit, and environment(15:27) The six-figure produce-industry podcast(17:54) Preventing podfade through structure(21:35) Running large-scale creator events(26:27) What Andrew is excited about nextSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“The riches are in the niches.” —Andrew Weiss“If you never ask, then the answer is always no.” —Andrew Weiss (via Gary Vee)