PodBiz

How do you make money from podcasting when listeners are skipping ads?Sam Sethi has spent his career at the intersection of tech and media, from Microsoft and Netscape to co-founding TechCrunch. Now, as CEO of True Fans and co-host of Podcast Weekly Review, he’s focused on one thing: building direct relationships between creators and audiences.For Sam, the future of podcasting isn’t built on ads. It’s built on fans.“The word of the year is parasocial… it’s a one way deep relationship that fans have with creators.”In this episode, Sam breaks down why subscription models are gaining momentum, why downloads are no longer a reliable metric, and how podcasting is shifting toward direct monetization through community, access, and multi-platform experiences.In this episode:Why subscription models are overtaking ad-based podcast revenueThe “death of the download” and what should replace itHow parasocial relationships translate into monetizationWhy listeners are actively avoiding adsThe shift from platform dependency to creator-owned ecosystemsHow real-time consumption data changes measurementWhy micropayments haven’t scaled yet but still matterThe role of curiosity in building long-term successEpisode Moments:(01:46) Where the money in podcasting is shifting(03:17) Subscription vs advertising models(06:13) Why listeners skip ads(10:02) The role of trust in host-read ads(17:20) From radio to podcast workflows(19:27) How top shows identify high-performing clips(24:37) The “death of the download”(32:22) Building True Fans and creator ecosystems(34:12) Real-time listening data explained(43:39) Micropayments and creator monetization(45:12) Curiosity as a competitive advantage(59:29) What’s next for podcastingAbout Sam SethiSam Sethi is the CEO of True Fans, a platform focused on direct-to-fan podcast monetization and engagement. He is also co-host of Podcast Weekly Review alongside James Cridland. With a background spanning Microsoft, Netscape, and TechCrunch, Sam brings a product and infrastructure perspective to the future of podcasting, focused on subscriptions, data, and creator-led revenue models.Find Sam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samsethi Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“Complexity is fail. Simplicity is scale.”“You just need a thousand true fans… and you have a business.”“I think people have switched from wanting advertising driven podcasting… to accepting subscription paid, ad free platforms.” 

How do you turn a podcast into a system that actually drives revenue?Chris Stone has spent his career building audiences across legacy media and modern podcast ecosystems. From The Telegraph to the New Statesman, and now through Podcast Strategy Weekly and Podcast Crew, he’s focused on one thing: how content turns into trust, and how trust turns into business.“The money in podcasting… it depends on where you are in podcasting. If you have massive reach, then obviously advertising and sponsorships… but I think for most people, the money… is using podcasting as a trust building layer within your content ecosystem.”In this episode, Chris breaks down the layered structure behind high-performing content businesses, why most creators misunderstand monetization, and how to build something people actually want to be part of.In this episode:Why podcasting works best as a trust layer, not a revenue stream on its ownThe “party” framework for building a content ecosystemHow free content, newsletters, and community connect into monetizationWhy value-first content outperforms aggressive sellingThe role of video in scaling audience growthHow legacy media strategies translate into podcasting todayWhat indie creators get wrong about content and revenueWhy failing fast is the only real way to growEpisode Moments:(01:22) Where the money in podcasting actually is(05:59) The content ecosystem “party” framework(11:34) Building Podcast Strategy Weekly and paid conversion(16:15) Lessons from legacy media(19:03) Branded podcast trends(22:53) What works for indie creators(29:01) Podcast Crew and industry infrastructure(33:42) Video as the biggest growth lever(39:58) Audio vs YouTube packaging strategy(44:14) How news podcasts build audience(48:53) Community as the core driver(51:25) Why you have to fail fastAbout Chris StoneChris Stone is the founder of Podcast Strategy Weekly and Podcast Crew, a professional hiring network for the podcast industry. He is also Executive Producer at the New Statesman, where he leads podcast and video strategy. With a background across The Telegraph and Evening Standard, Chris specializes in audience growth, content strategy, and monetization across media platforms.Find Chris at Podcast Strategy Weekly: podcaststrategy.substack.com and The Podcast Crew: podcastcrew.co.ukSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“I have found that providing as much value up top and for free as possible is really beneficial. People need to know that your content is going to be worth the time.”“Once a listener has been through those stages… they’re more likely to then go out and tell other people, hey, there’s this great party, come to this party next time with me.”“And there are going to be… things that you will end up doing that don’t exist right now.”

What actually makes a podcast worth buying for advertisers?In this episode, Courtney O'Connor, Director of Podcast Media at Oxford Road, breaks down how brands actually evaluate, buy, and scale podcast campaigns. From her early start at Veritone One to now leading podcast strategy at one of the most established agencies in the space, Courtney has operated inside the shift from indie creator reads to performance-driven media buying at scale. Courtney brings a media buyer’s perspective from inside one of the most established agencies in the space, where performance, not just reach, determines how dollars are spent and shares the case that alignment between brand, host, and audience is what actually drives results. The conversation also explores how host-read advertising continues to anchor the ecosystem, even as video, attribution, and platform fragmentation reshape how campaigns are executed and measured.In this episode, we cover:Why host-read ads remain the entry point for many brandsHow media buyers actually evaluate podcasts beyond downloadsWhy audience fit matters more than scale in campaign performanceHow small, niche shows can still drive meaningful resultsWhat brand safety looks like in practice across advertisersWhy podcast advertising is fundamentally a trust-based ecosystemHow fragmented data and attribution impact buying decisionsThe shift toward video and multi-platform consumptionWhy “test, learn, scale” is the operating model for campaignsEpisode Chapters(00:31) Where the money is in podcasting: host-read media(01:40) Courtney’s path into podcast advertising(05:21) Evolution of brand and creator relationships(06:01) Why downloads aren’t a deal breaker(07:28) Indie creators vs celebrity talent(10:14) Trust and performance in podcast advertising(12:15) Metrics, attribution, and data challenges(16:24) Fragmentation across platforms(18:08) Brand safety and campaign fit(20:52) Matching brands with creators(23:51) Trends in podcast media buying(25:17) Video and changing consumption(26:07) Test-and-learn mindset(27:13) What goes into campaign execution(28:07) What’s next for podcastingAbout the GuestCourtney O'Connor is Director of Podcast Media at Oxford Road, where she leads host-read podcast advertising strategy for brands investing in the medium. She began her career at Veritone One and has grown alongside the podcast industry as it evolved into a performance-driven channel, working across creator partnerships, attribution, and campaign strategy.Connect with CourtneyConnect with Courtney on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coconnortcu/Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“I’m going to say the money is in endorsed host-run media. I love that is what the industry was built on… connecting brands with creators that have this unbreakable trust with their audience.”“I personally have bought podcasts with 65 downloads… there is a time and a place for it and if it’s the right fit, we’re going to buy it.”“We are working in a trust based ecosystem… our brands are trusting us to make the right decision with their dollars and spend it wisely.”“That is exactly what it is… matchmaking in connecting those brands and creators that make sense.”“We have to be the best stewards of our clients’ money… if it doesn’t work, that campaign is going to stop and the client’s not going to come back.”

What if most of the money in podcasting isn’t in podcasting at all?In this episode, we’re joined by Jeremy Enns, founder of Podcast Marketing Academy, to break down where podcast revenue really comes from, and why so many shows miss it.Jeremy challenges the idea that growth is about tactics. Instead, he makes the case that concept, positioning, and packaging are the real drivers of audience and revenue.He also introduces a critical shift: podcasts aren’t just content—they’re conversion accelerators within a broader business system.“There’s way more money that never gets accounted for… businesses that use podcasting to drive business.”In this episode, we cover:Why most podcast revenue is “invisible” and happens outside the industryPodcasting as a conversion accelerator (and how it shortens sales cycles)The difference between advertising, partnerships, and equity-based dealsWhy concept is the most overlooked lever in podcast growthHow poor packaging kills great content before it gets a chanceThe role of podcasts inside a larger media and business strategyWhy most creators misunderstand content strategy entirelyThe shift from tactics to belief-building in marketingLong-term thinking, detachment, and sustainable growth in podcastingEpisode Chapters(00:05) Packaging vs. promotion in podcast growth(01:08) Where the money in podcasting actually lives(03:49) Sponsorship vs. products and services(05:30) Creative monetization: equity and partnerships(07:16) Podcasting as part of a broader media strategy(09:13) The myth of art vs. business in podcasting(14:08) Why marketing feels “smarmy” (and how to fix it)(17:25) Audience clarity and value proposition(18:18) What makes a show inherently shareable(21:24) The slow burn of podcast growth(26:46) Why concept is everything(28:00) Content strategy and belief systems(31:50) Positioning your podcast within your business(36:09) Detachment, long-term thinking, and creative success(42:57) Why there are no shortcuts in podcast growthAbout the GuestJeremy Enns is the founder of Podcast Marketing Academy, where he helps creators and businesses grow podcasts through strategy, positioning, and concept development. With a background in audio engineering and years of experience working with podcasters at every level, Jeremy focuses on the intersection of craft and marketing, helping shows become both compelling and commercially effective.Connect with JeremyConnect with Jeremy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-enns/ Explore his work at Podcast Marketing Academy: https://podcastmarketingacademy.com/scrappy-podcasting-newsletter/ Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“There’s way more money that never gets accounted for… businesses that use podcasting to drive business.”“Normally my time to conversion was 12 to 18 months… after the podcast, a couple weeks later they’re ready to talk.”“If you don’t get the concept right, everything is going to be harder downstream.”“People do judge shows by their cover, by their title, by that one sentence blurb.”“The game is staying in the game while you build your skills.”“If you package great work, it will grow itself.”

What does it actually take to build a media network inside a company like HubSpot?As Head of Media Partnerships at HubSpot Media Network, Carly Baker joined shortly after the acquisition of The Hustle and helped grow what started as a small collection of shows into a multi-platform media ecosystem spanning podcasts, YouTube, and newsletters.In this episode of PodBiz, Carly breaks down how HubSpot approaches creator partnerships, what makes a show valuable today, and how podcasting fits into a broader media strategy.At the center of that shift is a more expansive view of monetization.“People are scrambling to try to figure out how to monetize directly through their audience… and to have more control sort of financially.”That doesn’t replace advertising, but it does change how creators and networks think about building sustainable businesses.It also changes how success is evaluated.“Size does not matter… we have shows and newsletters and YouTube channels that we work with of all shapes and sizes.”This conversation looks at how media companies are thinking about audience, distribution, and long-term value across platforms.In this episode, we cover:• How HubSpot built a podcast, YouTube, and newsletter network from one acquisition• Why monetization is expanding beyond a single revenue stream• Why downloads are becoming a misleading metric for audience value• How HubSpot evaluates shows beyond audience size• The difference between audio and video as separate products• How YouTube search vs browse shapes growth strategy• Why newsletters are becoming critical for audience ownership• The role of trust, brand safety, and alignment in creator partnershipsAbout Carly BakerCarly Baker is Head of Media Partnerships at HubSpot Media Network, where she leads partnership and growth strategy across podcasts, newsletters, and video. She has spent the past four years building sustainable audience growth for shows like My First Million and Goal Digger, with a focus on distribution-first strategy and long-term impact.Connect with Carly BakerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlycbaker/Episode Chapters(01:11) Introduction to Carly Baker and HubSpot Media Network(01:53) Where the money is in podcasting today(02:45) The shift toward direct audience monetization(04:08) Why audience trust is the foundation of revenue(05:37) The evolution of podcast advertising(08:06) Building HubSpot’s media network after The Hustle acquisition(12:16) What actually makes a podcast successful today(14:23) The confusion around modern podcast metrics(17:26) Why creator relationships drive long-term success(21:51) Video strategy and YouTube growth(23:55) Search vs browse content on YouTube(28:42) Audio vs video as fundamentally different products(31:57) Monetization differences across platforms(36:09) Why relationships matter more than metrics(39:49) The role of newsletters in owning your audience(41:37) Substack, community, and direct audience connection(46:48) Long-term strategy vs chasing trends(47:59) What’s next: IRL events and private communitiesSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“Being able to give the audience a chance to directly support those creators that they love and trust is something that I think we’re seeing a lot more and will continue to see.”“We’re not in the business of being transactional with creators… we really want to work one-on-one with the person to be able to provide them that individualized growth support.”“If your audience is not on YouTube, that’s fine… you don’t have to be everywhere. You just need to double down where they are.”

Is podcasting focusing on the wrong metrics?For years, the business conversation around podcasts has centered on CPMs, ad fill rates, and monetization mechanics. But Rox Codes believes the bigger opportunity lies somewhere else entirely: growth.Rox is the CEO and co-founder of Flightcast, a platform built with Steven Bartlett that brings YouTube-style analytics and experimentation into podcast publishing. His background comes from the YouTube creator ecosystem, where content strategy revolves around testing, packaging, and constant iteration.As Rox puts it:“The money in podcasting traditionally has been where can I find an extra dollar? Like how do I up my CPM or my ad fill rate… fill rate and CPM. But if you made the episode better, you’d hit another mid-roll. If you got people to listen 5% longer, you’d hit another mid-roll.” In the YouTube world, creators obsess over packaging: thumbnails, titles, and audience retention. Rox argues that podcasting can learn from that playbook.“On YouTube, if you want to make an extra dollar and you’re getting 1,000 views, you have one option. You get 2,000 views.” But applying that mindset to podcasting isn’t simple. The medium operates with less data, fewer discovery systems, and a very different culture around creators and content.In this episode of PodBiz, Rox joins Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan to discuss the analytics gap in podcasting, why experimentation matters more than many creators realize, and how platforms may evolve as video and audio ecosystems converge.In this episode, we discuss• Why podcast monetization conversations focus heavily on CPMs• What podcasting can learn from YouTube packaging and discovery• The analytics gap between YouTube Studio and podcast hosting platforms• Why experimentation is essential for creator growth• How small podcast audiences can generate meaningful revenue• Why creators should become “students of the game”• The future convergence of video and podcast ecosystemsEpisode Chapters(02:08) Where the money in podcasting really is(03:34) The YouTube mindset behind creator growth(05:44) Metrics creators should actually track(08:25) What experienced podcasters already understand about their audiences(14:02) Why podcast analytics still lag behind video platforms(18:50) Building Flightcast as a growth platform(21:27) Why relative performance metrics matter(24:50) Choosing the right stories inside a niche(31:01) Why small audiences can still generate large revenue(40:16) Becoming a “student of the game”About Rox CodesRox Codes is the CEO and co-founder of Flightcast, a podcast growth platform designed to help creators analyze, optimize, and scale their shows. Before launching Flightcast with Steven Bartlett, Rox built ThumbnailTest.com, a YouTube optimization tool used by major creators to experiment with thumbnails and titles. His work focuses on bringing data-driven experimentation into podcast publishing.Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“You should spend as much time on the thumbnail and title as you did on the entire episode.”