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Patti’s People, from The Evidence Base
Patti's People - Patti Peeples speaks with Mark Sculpher
In this ‘Patti’s People’ episode, Patti Peeples of The Peeples Collaborative speaks with Mark Sculpher (Director, Centre for Health Economics, University of York) about why the biggest challenge in cost-effectiveness analysis is political rather than methodological, and why opportunity cost must sit at the heart of how health systems value and price new medicines.
Questions:
00:00: Introduction
01:13 Has cost-effectiveness lost authority, or is it simply being selectively applied?
06:52: What does the disconnect between marginal productivity and thresholds reveal about how value is actually determined?
12:35: Why is opportunity cost still so poorly internalized in decision-making?
15:04: Is the inability to say no to new technologies a failure of method, political will, or something structural?
20:21: Are we building sophisticated models for systems that don’t behave as assumed?
25:48: What would a fair distribution of value between manufacturers and health systems look like?
32:49: Why are advanced methods for uncertainty still underused?
37:47: How should systems balance maximizing health versus reducing inequality?
42:35: Has NICE adapted appropriately, or compromised its core logic?
46:08 What role should ISPOR realistically play in shaping policy?
49:50: Rapid Fire Questions
Mark Sculpher
Director, Centre for Health Economics, University of York
Mark Sculpher is Professor of Health Economics and Head of Department for CHE. He is also Co-Director of the Policy Research Unit in Economic Evaluation of Health and Care Interventions (EEPRU). He has been based at the University of York since 1997.
Between 1988 and 1997, he worked at the Health Economics Research Group at Brunel University; during 1998 he was a visitor in the Department of Clinical Epidemiology and Biostatistics at McMaster University in Canada.
Mark has worked extensively in the field of economic evaluation in health, with experience in areas including heart disease and various cancer. He has also contributed to methods in the field, in particular relating to decision analytic modelling and handling uncertainty. He has over 300 peer-reviewed publications and is a co-author of two major text books in the field: Methods for the Economic Evaluation of Health Care Programmes (OUP, 2015 with Drummond, Claxton, Torrance, and Stoddart) and Decision Modelling for Health Economic Evaluation (OUP, 2006 with Briggs and Claxton). He was also a member of the Second Panel on Cost-Effectiveness in Health and Medicine.
Mark was a member of the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) Technology Appraisal Committee (2004-8), the NICE Public Health Interventions Advisory Committee (2006-9) and the NICE Diagnostics Advisory Committee (2010-20). He chaired NICE's 2004 Task Group on methods guidance for economic evaluation and was a member of the Methods Working Party for the 2008 update of this guidance. He was a member of the Commissioning Board for the UK NHS Health Technology Assessment Programme (2007-10), the UK National Institute for Health Research (NIHR)/Medical Research Council (MRC) Methodology Research Panel (2008-11) and the MRC-NIHR Methodology Research Advisory Group (2016-20). He was a member of the NIHR Policy Research Programme’s Commissioning Panel (2011-14). Mark is a NIHR Senior Investigator (Emeritus) and is a former President of the International Society of Pharmacoeconomics and Outcomes Research. In 2024, Mark was elected as a Fellow of the Academy of Medical Sciences.
Recent national and international advisory roles include the Singapore Agency for Care Effectiveness International Advisory Panel (2017-18); UK Health Select Committee Availability of Orkambi on the NHS inquiry (2018-19); Portuguese National Authority of Medicines and Health Products (2018-20).
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8. Patti's People - Patti Peeples speaks with Rob Abbott
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7. Patti's People - Patti Peeples speaks with C. Daniel Mullins
53:09||Season 4, Ep. 7In this ‘Patti’s People’ episode, Patti Peeples of The Peeples Collaborative speaks with C. Daniel Mullins (Professor and Executive Director, the PATIENTS Program, University of Maryland School of Pharmacy) about the gap between involving patients in research and letting them change it.Key themes:- Patient centeredness in language versus in practice, and the question that separates them: what did you do differently because of what you heard?- Where engagement breaks down: patients who are heard but not inspired, and inspired but not equipped to contribute- Why a validated instrument is not automatically fit-for-purpose in a new population or context- Patients as experts alongside clinicians and KOLs, and why the protocol lock is a scheduling failure rather than a regulatory one- Respect and trust as the measurable outcomes of engagement, from earned authorship to repairing trust when it breaksQuestions:00:00: Introduction01:16 Are we at risk of confusing patient centered rhetoric with truly patient-centered research?04:26: What does authentic patient engagement look like when it is done well?10:04: What would a true long-term relationship with communities look like?13:46: Should sophisticated patient contributors be treated more like key opinion leaders in the evidence-generation process?17:46: How should medical affairs think differently about patient engagement?21:42: Is the real test of patient-centered research whether researchers are willing to change the protocol? Does this apply to HEOR studies as well as trials?27:32: How do we balance comparability with older literature against better measurement?30:38: Are patients becoming more confident in questioning researchers and clinicians, and what does that mean for more equitable partnerships?34:10: Did you draw on existing literature or other models when developing your approach to patient engagement?35:45: Is mixed methods research the missing translation layer between patient engagement and better HEOR?38:21: Has your work in patient oriented research changed your overall approach to research? What lessons have carried across?40:59: Where is the field still weak?42:19: Where can AI genuinely improve patient-centered evidence generation, and where might it amplify blind spots?45:20: What lessons should HEOR take from past biased algorithms?47:52: Can you share an example of a challenging group you engaged with, and what you learned from that experience?50:32: Rapid Fire Questions C. Daniel MullinsProfessor and Executive Director, the PATIENTS Program, University of Maryland School of PharmacyDaniel Mullins is a Professor and Executive Director of the University of Maryland PATient-centered Involvement in Evaluating effectiveNess of TreatmentS (PATIENTS) Program, a community-academic partnership for patient-driven research. Dr Mullins has received nearly $30 million in funding as a Principal Investigator from AHRQ, FDA, NCI, NHLBI, NIA, NIMHD, the Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (PCORI) and various patient advocacy organizations and pharmaceutical companies. At the University of Maryland Baltimore (UMB), he received the Dr Patricia Sokolove Outstanding Mentor Award and the Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Faculty Diversity Award. He was named Researcher of the Year at UMB and was awarded a University System of Maryland Wilson H Elkins Professorship. Among his accolades are Association of Black Cardiologists’ Dr Daniel D. Savage Memorial Science Award, ISPOR’s Avedis Donabedian Lifetime Achievement Award and Marilyn Dix Smith Leadership Award, the American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy (AACP) Paul R Dawson Award for Excellence in Patient Care Research and a Baldrige Foundation Award for Leadership Excellence in Health Care.
6. Patti's People - Patti Peeples speaks with Lou Garrison
59:59||Season 4, Ep. 6In this ‘Patti’s People’ episode, Patti Peeples of The Peeples Collaborative speaks with Lou Garrison (Professor Emeritus, The CHOICE Institute at the University of Washington) about rethinking pharmaceutical pricing beyond launch price, and why access delays, differential contribution, and global innovation incentives matter more to patient outcomes.Questions:00:00: Introduction01:43 Have we misdiagnosed the central challenge in pharmaceutical policy?04:51: Why has launch price become the dominant political narrative?06:37: How significant is the hidden cost of delayed access to innovation, and do healthcare systems underestimate the harm caused by waiting?15:50: You've argued for a lifecycle approach to pricing rather than a focus on launch price. What does that shift mean in practice, and why is it important for patients and healthcare systems?22:47: Are there countries or healthcare systems that are already moving toward this broader procurement approach?27:43: Where are the greatest opportunities to make HTA faster and more efficient without compromising decision quality?33:10: What led you to move from differential pricing to differential contribution, and why do you see it as a better framework for global access and innovation?34:40: How should wealthy countries think about their responsibility to support pharmaceutical innovation?39:04: What do policies such as the IRA and MFN reveal about the challenge of balancing affordability, innovation, and patient access?43:16 What does the hepatitis C experience teach us about evaluating the value of medical innovation over its full lifecycle rather than focusing primarily on launch price?49:38: Rapid Fire Questions Lou GarrisonProfessor Emeritus, The CHOICE Institute at the University of WashingtonLou Garrison, PhD, is Professor Emeritus in The Comparative Health Outcomes, Policy, and Economics Institute in the School of Pharmacy at the University of Washington, where he joined the faculty in 2004. He is also a Visiting Senior Fellow at the Office of Health Economics in London following his sabbatical there in 2012–13. Professor Garrison received a PhD in Economics from Stanford University and has more than 200 publications in peer-reviewed journals. For the first 13 years of his career, he worked in non-profit health policy. Following this, he worked as an economist in the pharmaceutical industry for 12 years. His research interests include national and international health policy issues related to health technology assessment, personalized medicine, benefit-risk analysis, and other topics, as well as the economic evaluation and pricing of biopharmaceuticals, diagnostics, and other technologies. Professor Garrison was elected as ISPOR President for July 2016–June 2017. He has served as co-chair of ISPOR’s Policy Outlook Committee for Health Science Policy Council, and he is currently a leader of the ISPOR Special Interest Group on Global Access to Medical Innovation. In September 2022, he received the Avedis Donabedian Outcomes Research Lifetime Achievement Award from ISPOR.
4. Patti's People - Patti Peeples speaks with Dalia Dawoud
57:55||Season 4, Ep. 4In this ‘Patti’s People’ episode, Patti Peeples of The Peeples Collaborative speaks with Dalia Dawoud (Research Principal, HTA Policy and Strategy, Cytel) about the real-world readiness of AI in HTA, from which use cases are mature enough to trust, to why most HTA agencies are still reacting rather than leading.Questions:00:00: Introduction01:30: You’ve said AI is moving faster than anything HTA has faced, even faster than real-world evidence. What feels fundamentally different about this moment, and what’s driving that acceleration?05:49: Where do you fall on the view that HTA bodies are ‘reacting’ to AI in real time rather than leading its development and adoption?09:31: The way we generate and evaluate evidence may not be fit for purpose for AI. How do we overcome that?12:46: Are we slowing the adoption of AI by demanding too much certainty too early? 14:23: We often talk about bias and decision risk, but those exist in traditional evidence too. What are the deeper risks that HTA bodies may not be saying out loud?17:44: You mentioned de-skilling and job displacement. Where could disruption actually hit first in HTA? 24:51: You highlighted literature reviews as a ‘safe’ use case. What makes something safe enough for AI adoption?30:02: Can the methods and parameters we use to validate traditional evidence be transferred to AI, or do we need entirely new approaches for AI validation?31:07: You mentioned transforming unstructured data into usable variables as a promising area. What level of accuracy is good enough for HTA?36:32: Can you tell us about NICE’s HTA lab? 37:49: Have HTA bodies, such as NICE, sufficiently defined failure in these pilots? 41:34: ELEVATE-GenAI introduced reporting standards for AI in HEOR. Was the goal primarily guardrails, acceleration, or improving quality?44:02: Rapid Fire QuestionsDalia DawoudResearch Principal, HTA Policy and Strategy, CytelDalia Dawoud, PhD, is a Research Principal specializing in Health Technology Assessment (HTA) policy and strategy, with a focus on artificial intelligence in evidence generation. She contributes to ISPOR’s AI Working Group and co-developed ELEVATE-GenAI and the Taxonomy of Generative AI. Her work focuses on opportunities for integrating AI into HTA while maintaining rigor, transparency, and trust.
3. Patti's People - Patti Peeples speaks with Michael Drummond Part 2
37:21||Season 4, Ep. 3
2. Patti's People - Patti Peeples speaks with Michael Drummond Part 1
30:07||Season 4, Ep. 2In this ‘Patti’s People’ episode, Patti Peeples of the The Peeples Collaborative speaks with Michael Drummond, Professor Emeritus and former Director, Centre for Health Economics, University of York, where they discuss topics including the evolving role of health economists in policy, the ongoing debate about “Value” in healthcare, and budget constraints and opportunity cost in health systems.Questions:00:00: Introduction01:23: Health economists now sit closer to power than ever. Is their role still primarily to inform policy, or has the field crossed into shaping it – and where should that line be drawn?03:46: How can economists best help policymakers understand alternative options and opportunity costs without drifting into advocacy?06:19: Have we reached a genuine stand-off in the healthcare value debate, or have underlying philosophical differences simply become impossible to smooth over?15:58: Why do health systems and even health economists struggle to confront the reality of scarcity, and what real-world examples illustrate this? 21:22: Is HEOR being asked to stretch beyond its traditional focus on efficiency and equity into broader industrial strategy, and are we equipped to do that well? Michael DrummondProfessor Emeritus and former Director, Centre for Health Economics, University of YorkMichael Drummond is Professor Emeritus and former Director of the Centre for Health Economics at the University of York in the UK. His main field of interest is in the methodology and practise of economic evaluation in health care. He is the author of two major textbooks and more than 750 scientific papers. He has advised several governments on the assessment of health technologies and acted as a consultant to many life sciences companies. In October 2010 he was made a member of the National Academy of Medicine in the USA. He served for 14 years as Co-Editor-in-Chief of Value in Health and was made Editor Emeritus in May 2024.
1. Patti's People - Patti Peeples speaks with Ramiro Gilardino
34:41||Season 4, Ep. 1In this ‘Patti’s People’ episode, Patti Peeples of the The Peeples Collaborative speaks with Ramiro Gilardino, Healthcare Executive specializing in Global Access & Health Policy.Questions:00:00: Introduction01:16: What’s changing in pricing reform, and why is this moment important?03:11: How do MFN and reference pricing work, and how do they differ in purpose and impact?06:18: Why are these tools so appealing to policymakers?07:00: MFN pricing is often framed as a fairness issue. From an access and economics perspective, where does that argument fall short? 09:35: One concern is that MFN doesn’t just affect the US, it reshapes global pricing behavior. What ripple effects do you see internationally? 12:40: External reference pricing has been around for decades. Why does it feel more consequential, and more dangerous, now than it did 10 or 15 years ago?15:18: People still talk about ‘Europe’ as if it’s one access environment. Why is that framing fundamentally flawed?18:30: From your experience in consulting and industry, what does true organizational readiness for European access actually look like? 21:01: How early is ‘early enough’ when it comes to European access planning, and what needs to be decided before Phase III?22:58: With more coordination across Europe, there was hope for simplification. Are we actually seeing simplification, or just a new layer of complexity?25:39: As a CrossFit coach, you use “explain, demonstrate, practice, correct.” How does that approach apply to communicating value in access today?27:15: What does it take to tell an access story that resonates with payers, policymakers, and patients beyond the science and policy? 28:38: Rapid Fire Questions Ramiro GilardinoHealthcare Executive specializing in Global Access & Health PolicyRamiro Gilardino, MD, MSc, is a health policy and innovation specialist with a background spanning global institutions and the private sector. He brings over a decade of experience in HTA, market access policy, and evidence strategy. Ramiro has led and contributed to international collaborations focused on aligning HTA methodologies, advancing affordability frameworks, and enabling lifecycle approaches to decision-making. He currently serves on the Board of Directors at ISPOR, where he champions stakeholder engagement, equity, and policy reform to enhance patient access and making healthcare accessible and affordable.
10. Patti's People - Patti Peeples speaks with Paul Scuffham
49:23||Season 3, Ep. 10In this Patti’s People episode, Patti Peeples of the The Peeples Collaborative speaks with Paul Scuffham, Founder, Centre for Applied Health Economics.Questions:00:00: Introduction01:24: What do you see as the real purpose of health economics today?05:17: Australia’s National Health and Medical Research Strategy is being revisited for the first time in a decade. What is the significance of reassessing R&D spending now, and how could it reshape priorities across hospitals, universities, and health-service research?09:06: Australia’s PBAC is known globally for rigor and transparency. What does PBAC consistently get right – and where could it improve?12:48: It can take nearly three years from FDA approval to PBAC listing. Where could the system meaningfully shorten that pathway without weakening the evidence? 19:41: More than 300 oncology drugs were approved globally in five years, yet few reached Australia. Are sponsors more deterred by pricing expectations or by process complexity? 22:48: What does smart, ethical engagement between academia and industry look like in 2025?25:16: Many universities push for impact yet primarily reward publications. How can institutions better recognize and value policy-relevant or commercial translation work?29:37: ISPOR’s 2030 Vision calls for bridging evidence and equitable access. What is the single biggest shift needed to achieve that? 32:21: Amid geopolitical and economic pressures, how do you see global pricing and value frameworks evolving – and what might this mean for patient access?34:01: Healthcare spending is outpacing GDP worldwide. Is sustainability fundamentally an economic problem or a political one?36:30: If Australia could share HTA workload with one other agency, who would it be, and why?37:52: You’ve mentored a generation of health economists. What advice would you give your younger self, or emerging economists hoping to influence policy today?40:56: Rapid Fire Questions Paul ScuffhamFounder, Centre for Applied Health EconomicsChair of Health Economics, School of Medicine & Dentistry, Griffith UniversityProfessor Scuffham’s research is focused on identifying the value for money of healthcare interventions, elicitation of preferences from patients and the public, and methods of priority setting. He applies his research interests across the breadth of cardiac conditions, genomics, digital health, vaccines and more. At Griffith University, Queensland Australia, he founded the Centre for Applied Health Economics and was Director of the former Menzies Health Institute Queensland, a large research institute with 13 centers and over 500 staff. In his professional society, he was the inaugural President of the Australian Chapter of ISPOR, and past Chair of the Asia Consortium. He was awarded ISPOR’s Marilyn Dix-Smith Leadership Award in 2025. He is a Fellow, Board member, and Chair of the Policy Advisory Committee of the Australian Academy of Health & Medical Sciences. He is a member of the Research Committee of the National Health and Medical Research Committee and a member of the Public Health and Health Systems Committee of the Medical Research Future Fund & NHMRC.