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Off the Fence with Purpose
"Sitting with Nellie” was great career start
Season 1, Ep. 19
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"Sitting with Nellie” was great career start
‘Sitting with Nellie” is a colloquial British phrase for learning a job by observing and mimicking an experienced worker.
For Martina Byrne the guest on this episode it was an early introduction to the world of communications.
In her case the ’Nellie’ or ‘Nellies’ were two experienced executives at Murray Consultants in Dublin, the late Michael Colley and Pat Keating, who now runs his own agency.
During the conversation with Jim and Ellen she says, "I was hugely lucky to have such great mentors and I continue to encourage new entrants to the business to take every opportunity to watch closely and learn from their more senior colleagues.
"With so many people working from home there needs to be a balance between WFH and person to person engagement in an office.” she says
Martina also discusses the benefits of being in an office with different colleagues. These include being able to have conversations about strategy and client activities, the ability to throw questions across the room in real time, to learn from seeing people under pressure, how they respond and being visible to senior leaders and make an impression on them.
Other themes covered in this episode include, the importance of crisis communications, critical thinking, the transferability of PR/Communications skills, the need for a 'Sheriff 'with regard to AI and the importance of board governance and responsibility
Martina Byrne comes from a farming family in Galway. Her first experience of working in an office came while studying for a BA Communications Degree at Dublin City University. As part of the degree programme she acquired a work experience position in the international tech company IBM.
Her career proper began with Murray Consultants and she moved on to two other agencies in the PR world, McMahon & Partners and Wilson Hartnell, before moving in-house with the energy company Statoil. At Statoil she set up and led the communications department across multiple energy entities in Ireland. She subsequently went back to Wilson Hartnell as as Executive Director and Board Member. From 2017 until earlier this year she was CEO and Deputy Company Secretary for the Public Relations Institute of Ireland (PRII) and the Public Relations Consultants Association Ireland (PRCA).
In addition she has been a researcher with the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) and a Post Doctoral Lecturer in social science at Trinity College, Dublin (TCD) and University College Dublin (UCD). In 2024 she was appointed as a Non-Executive Member of the Board of Governors & Guardians at the National Gallery of Ireland by the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht and Sport.
Earlier this year she established her own agency, Byrne Consultants.
Such a depth of experience provides listeners to this episode with much to consider and learn from when evaluating their own careers.
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4. Stopping the music in Shanghai
46:50||Season 2, Ep. 4To say that the guest on this episode had a varied career could be considered an understatement. It is a career that spans the private, public, international, Not for Profit, NGO and family- owned business sectors.Helen Brophy, now the Director General of the Institute of Public Administration (IPA) in Ireland discusses the lessons from her wide-ranging career with Jim and Ellen. These lessons include the importance of team working, why 75% of change management programmes fail, the challenges when promoted and the opportunities in the public service.As well as lessons from her career the conversation covers topics such as change management, the benefits and challenges of a role in the public service, dealing with conflict, preparing countries for EU succession and preparing Ireland for its leadership role in the EU later this year.Just some of the senior positions Helen has held are Manager of the Export Division, and then some years later, Head of Marketing and Business Development at Bord Iascaigh Mhara (BIM) – Irelands Seafood Development Agency; Chief Executive of the National Dairy Council: a Board Member and Director of the Executive Development Programme at the UCD Michael Smurfit Graduate Business School, and today Director General of the IPA . The role of the IPA is to advance the understanding, standard and practice of public administration and public policy in Ireland. Since joining in late 2022, Helen has led a substantial transformation programme in working towards achieving the vision of the IPA as Ireland’s centre of excellence in building capacity and capability across the Public Service.In addition to her Master of Business Studies (MBS) from UCD Michael Smurfit Graduate Business School Helen holds an Executive Masters in Consulting and Coaching for Change from Insead Business School, France, a BA from Dublin City University and a range of further graduate qualifications in coaching, psychometrics and leadership development. A key takeaway from this episode is that if you do not have a specific career path planned be sure that what you do is driven by a vision, be passionate and love what you do.As for the time Helen stopped the music in an Irish pub in Shanghai. It was in the late 1990s while she was managing the BIM Export Division. The pub was considered to be the first Irish pub in China.. When she walked in the band, which was Irish, stopped playing and the lead singer said “O my God, an Irish person has just walked in.” The band had been playing in the pub for three months and Helen was the first Irish person they had seen there. It is much different today where there are considered to be over 40 Irish Pubs in China.
3. A global leader in PR and communication
59:58||Season 2, Ep. 3In this episode John Saunders talks to Jim and Ellen about his fascinating career which moved from being a well known radio sports presenter and public announcer at international football games in Ireland to leading the US based Fleishman Hilliard, one of the world’s largest PR and communication agencies.At age 14 John Saunders set up his own sports newspaper, in his late teens he became the public address announcer for Ireland’s most successful football club, Shamrock Rovers as well as at Irish international football games. He also became a household name presenting sports news on RTE the national Irish broadcaster.Every morning for five years he presented a morning slot on radio with such regularity that many Irish people their set morning schedule on his opening words.His love of sport and his tenacity led him to engage with Anheuser-Busch, owners of Budweiser Beer and Fleishman Hilliard when the Budweiser sponsorship of the Irish Derby at the Curragh Racecource was announced.At that stage he had moved from RTE and was in the PR/Communications world with a small agency. He describes how through months of constant engagement he eventually took over the Budweiser Irish Derby PR and communications, one of the biggest sponsorship deals in Ireland at the time.This work led to Fleishman Hilliard entering the Irish marked in a joint venture as Fleishman Hilliard Saunders. Eventually John became the major shareholder in the company which was acquired by the Omnicom Media Group as part of an international deal.His career with Fleshman Hillard flourished from MD of the Irish office to head of regional offices, global CEO and now global Chair.Not only does this entertaining episode deal with his career but it also covers Irish-US relations, being a Grand Marshal at one of the largest St Patrick's Day Parade in the US, speaking at international events, dealing with tech and industry changes and his acknowledgement of the many Irish and US leaders who provide support and friendship throughout his career.
2. The career ladder as we know it has broken
40:58||Season 2, Ep. 2The career ladder as we know it has brokenListen here to understand how and why Conor Lynch was a guest in Season One of Off the Fence with Purpose and since then he has been busy getting his new book “Learn, Earn Own” ready for publication. It has now been published by Amazon Learn Earn Own has been described as an amazing resource for anyone starting a new career, changing course, or looking to kick themselves up the career ladder. Here Conor chats with Jim and Ellen about how the traditional career ladder has broken. And how anyone searching for their first job, planning a career change or launching a side hustle can use his book to design a career that works for them. He has the experienced breaking the mould of the linear career ladder using his assets and brand as a digital entrepreneur, innovator and educator. During this fascinating discussion you will hear stories of career changes, career innovation and career re-invention. Even if you have a settled career and are moving or planning to move up the career ladder in your organisation you will be stimulated by this discussion. As Conor says there is no one career model that suits everyone but there are many opportunities available for career choices. It is not just always about making sudden changes or impulsive decisions, it can be about taking ‘baby’ steps. Neither do you need to move up your career ladder on your own. He has lots to say about collaborative careers and career experiments The conversation here also covers how AI is driving changes in education, academia, career guidance and in the recruitment process. If you are a parent who has experienced the traditional career ladder you will find Conor’s understanding of how your children may approach their careers, a bit of an eye-opener. In the next episode of Off the Fence with Purpose coming later in February the guest is a radio presenter in Dublin whose career has moved in various guises from Ireland to the US, to Crete, the UK and back to Ireland.
1. Stimulating stories from Season 1
59:58||Season 2, Ep. 1Get ready for another season of great guests with stories from their careers that could stimulate your move up the career ladder where you are now, or want to be in the futureTo whet your appetite this episode touches on a few stories from Season 1 in 2025. What we learned during the 21 episodes is that in order to build a great career experience, whether it is advancing and growing in the organisation where you are currently employed, seeking to move to another job in the same sector or making a complete change to your career direction there are some common traits that can help anyone seeking purpose in their work. They are: lean into self-belief and grit; build your network early; embrace side hustles and lifelong learning; prioritise work-life integration and embrace change and have key mindsets such as self belief, curiosity, and connection.Season 2 will bring more great episodes with interesting stories from super guests that highlight the opportunities to make the most of your career and have a fulfilling life.We start Season 2 with a quick look back at the variety of guests who told Jim & Ellen in Season 1 about their experience of working in many different roles. These were in retail, journalism, cyber security, charities, digital, financial services, entertainment, hospitality, education, food,corporate coaching, fitness, advertising, broadcasting and even the catholic priesthood.In this season we have another great lineup of guests waiting for you. Their stories will not only entertain you but could give you that impetus in your career that you might need.It will also be helpful to those in people management and leadership roles seeking to encourage talent in their organisation.
21. Stories of love and service in a life that will inspire you.
54:26||Season 1, Ep. 21A conversation with Liam O’Dwyer which will inspire whatever your beliefs or career path.Liam O'Dwyer began his working life as a Catholic priest. It wasn’t work as he saw it, more a life of service in the community. That became a focus of his future when he left the priesthood, married and went on to build a career leading financial and charitable organisations. When he left the priesthood having met his future wife Mary his first job was managing e a programme for the traveller community which involved young travellers learning building trade skills.He then moved to Amsterdam where Mary went to work with ITT the US global manufacturing company. When he saw the remuneration package, she was offered he said, “I’ll go with you.” While in Amsterdam he secured a six-month HR consultancy role.On returning to Ireland with Mary and a young child Liam joined the Society of Saint Vincent de Paul, first as co-ordinator for the East Region and then as National Director. From there it was CEO of the Irish League of Credit Unions (ILCU) before moving to the Catholic Institute for Deaf People where he oversaw the establishment of a national Deaf Village, a place where all organisations representing the deaf community in Ireland are based.When that project was completed, he joined the Irish Red Cross.For those considering their career path Liam has these thoughts, “Take your time making decisions, listening and showing empathy are critical attributes as a leader”he says.On this podcast Jim and Ellen don't just chat about Liam's career. The conversation ranges across the changes in the Catholic church and the changing culture in the US. Liam also describes negotiating with the EU in Brussels on how different the ILCU was when compared with other much larger Credit Unions in Europe. Liam also describes the scale and operation of the Irish Red Cross in comparison with other Red Cross organisations throughout the world. Discussing the deaths of Red Cross personnel from different countries he believes that in many conflicts there has been a complete disrespect for humanitarian organisations. working in an unaligned manner.Throughout the conversation it is clear that Liam’s beliefs are driven by the desire to live in a place where justice, peace and love are the starter point to drive services that enable communities to work together and to try and enable governments to support justice, fairness and the elimination of poverty.An appropriate conversation going live in Christmas week.
20. The red thread through the career of Michael Patten
48:53||Season 1, Ep. 20The red thread through a career Corporate affairs and issue management have been some of the red thread through the career of Michael Patten. But there were times when life might have been different. Like been in Washington DC on 9/11 when he should have been in New York at dinner in a restaurant in one of the Twin Towers.Coming from a family immersed in media, the creative arts and politics, Sunday lunch in the family home was full of fun and debate which set the tone for his business career..The conversation in this episode tracks across his career which involved learning about communications, agriculture, food and drink sectors and international business, He began in a relatively small agency specialising in agriculture and moved to high profile corporates working internationally and then to becoming a board member of organisations in the media, forestry, management and state sectors Michael pivoted through agencies such as Sheedy Communications and Fleishman in Dublin and then in-house with Waterford Foods, Avonmore Foods, Glanbia plc, (twice) and Diageo plc. Throughout his career he developed interests and accepted challenges at a senior level in reputation management, people management, climate and environmental issues, public affairs, business culture, best practice and purpose. At one point in the conversation Ellen describes him as a ‘challenge junkie’ You will also hear in this conversation discussions around farmers as great adapters of change, how Irish people integrate so well into international business, particularly in the US and the contribution the Garda Siochana (Irish police) have made to Irish life.An important career lesson from Michael as someone who has been through a wide variety of organisations is not to interpret purpose narrowly in the ‘me’, because purpose is more powerful if you make a difference to others.
18. Negotiating pocket money as a child and martial arts helped shape business approach
49:20||Season 1, Ep. 18Negotiating pocket money as a child and taking up martial arts as a teenager helped shape a business approachWhen Michael O’Donohoe now Country Director for Ireland and UK with Wavin, the iconic supplier of above and below ground plastic pipe systems. was a child he had to negotiate for his pocket money every year with his father who worked with a trade union.Then he took up martial arts and excelled at Taekwondo.. At the age of 17 he achieved a 2nd Dan Black belt and went on to represent Ireland at an international level.In chatting with Jim and Ellen in this episode of Off the Fence with Purpose Michael explains how both of the these influences shaped his business and management approach.The learnings from the annual negotiations with his father stood to him as he progressed his career and as he says the attributes needed for Taekwondo; confidence, discipline, respect and communication added to his structured and disciplined approach to management.His wide ranging career has seen him progress as a sales and marketing professional with national and international experience in diverse industries including Pharma/Biotech, Food & Beverage and Building/Construction. His specialties have included management in general business, sales & marketing, key accounts, project sales and distribution.Michael graduated with a BS.c Applied Science-Chemistry and Maths from TU Dublin and holds an Advanced Diploma in Management Practice and an M.Sc. in Executive Leaderships from Ulster University.In addition he has been President and Executive Committee member of the Irish Hardware Association.This conversation with Michael covers not only his career and interests but also the state of the building/construction industry in Ireland and the impact of AI on the sector.While Taekwondo may have shaped his early life Michael has now turned his attention to Ironman and Triathlon events. His description of recently completing the Alcatraz Triathlon is gripping.Michael describes his style as that of a hands-off manager. He gets the right people onto the bus and then figures out the right seat for them.His lessons for career development is: be true to yourself, understand your own ability, get out of your comfort zone, challenge yourself and whatever you do pursue it with passion.
17. From investigative journalist to helping managers become leaders
53:13||Season 1, Ep. 17This lively chat with Margaret E Ward covers her time from being a cub reporter in New York, through an award winning journalism career in Ireland with leading national and broadcast media to becoming founder and CEO of a company that is all about business leadership and team development. Her career which also includes serving on the boards of national organisations, writing three books and thousands of articles, provides many useful thoughts for those working on their career path or who have reached leadership roles.A1 bias provokes an interesting discussion on this episode about how organisations today use AI in the recruitment process.Margaret began her journalism career in New York where she says as a young 23/24 year old cub reporter she was trusted to tackle investigative stories. Her first being about political campaign donations. She learned quickly the value of trusted sources and this shaped her approach during her journalism career and now to AI.The only member of her family born outside Ireland she came to Ireland 30 years ago to write the story of her grandmother who at the age of 14 had been interred during the Irish Civil War.Like many of the guests on this podcast it took a major event in her life to lead to a significant change of career direction. In her case it was a family illness. Without that she says, she would probably never have left full-time journalism.She continues to write a weekly column for the Irish Times and discussing her company Clear Eye leads the conversation to her strong views on the positives and negatives about leadership, communications and strategy.Margaret has been a strong advocate for women in media and business throughout her career and on this podcast she articulates those views on the ability of woman to chair the boards and actively contribute to lead roles in any organisation.