Share

cover art for John Sawers: ‘The deep state is what keeps us stable’

Media Confidential

John Sawers: ‘The deep state is what keeps us stable’

Season 2, Ep. 52

This week, Alan and Lionel are joined by former MI6 chief Sir John Sawers to discuss the new world order...or should that be disorder?


They share their views on the threat posed by the second Trump presidency and whether the world has reverted to “might is right”. John raises concerns over the future of the Five Eyes intelligence alliance—which consists of the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the US. Could this mean the end of intelligence sharing with America?


Plus, Alan and Lionel discuss the unexpected outcome of Ofcom’s cases against GB News.

More episodes

View all episodes

  • 61. Q&A: Bezos or Musk–who would you rather be in a rocket with?

    23:23||Season 2, Ep. 61
    Alan and Lionel are asked about Tortoise's imminent takeover of the Observer. The hosts discuss a surprisingly timely encounter, and share some breaking news about Prospect.They also discuss blasting off into space and whether they’d rather put their lives in the hands of Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk. Plus, has the press regulator IPSO lost its teeth? Has it ever had any?
  • 60. Who owns the media?

    28:54||Season 2, Ep. 60
    Does it matter who funds and owns the media?This week, Alan and Lionel are joined by Rodney Benson, professor and author of How Media Ownership Matters, who compares the ways in which newspapers are funded around the world—and how this fundamentally shapes democracy.Plus, Alan shares stories from his recent trip to Perugia, which holds the annual International Journalism festival. He discusses his mood after the festival, and what columnists are debating (is Donald Trump bonkers? We’ll never know!)
  • 59. Q&A: How do you spot a story?

    25:41||Season 2, Ep. 59
    In this week’s Q&A, Alan and Lionel are asked what makes a good story—and which big ones they’ve missed.They reminisce over the hedonistic days of Vanity Fair magazine, following the release of former editor Graydon Carter’s swashbuckling new memoir. And they remember the legacies, lives and careers of two former colleagues: Gwen Robinson, former foreign correspondent for the Financial Times and Tim Radford, the Guardian science editor known for penning the 25 commandments for journalists.
  • 58. Trump’s tariff-mania: What are journalists missing?

    31:01||Season 2, Ep. 58
    On Media Confidential this week, Alan and Lionel discuss the world being turned upside down by Donald Trump’s tariffs.As former editor of the Financial Times, Lionel weighs in on how the press are handling the situation: what are they getting right…and what are they missing? Have financial journalists failed to spot the biggest story yet?And amid a slew of suspensions and politically-motivated arrests at Columbia University, the hosts also talk to Anya Schiffrin, director of the university’s Technology, Media and Communications programme. As the university yields to the Trump administration’s demands, they discuss the pressures colleges are facing, the role of the media, and the importance of resistance to authoritarianism.
  • 57. Q&A: Have you ever felt your life was under threat?

    14:56||Season 2, Ep. 57
    What would you do if you realised your work was putting you in danger?This week, Alan and Lionel are asked if they’ve ever been unsafe because of their journalism.They talk about Tom McTague moving jobs across the political spectrum, from UnHerd's political editor, to editor at the New Statesman.And as Jim Mullen announces his departure from the media company Reach, the hosts discuss his tenure.If you have a question for Alan and Lionel, send them to mediaconfidential@prospectmagazine.co.uk
  • 56. Is this the most dangerous time to be a journalist?

    47:50||Season 2, Ep. 56
    This week, Alan and Lionel discuss alarming threats to global press freedom with guests Jodie Ginsberg and former war correspondent Peter Greste.As an award-winning journalist with Al Jazeera, Peter was reporting on the Arab Spring when he was arrested under charges of terrorism. He shares his story of being wrongfully imprisoned in Egypt for 400 days (later dramatised in the film The Correspondent).Jodie, director of the Committee to Protect Journalists, an American nonprofit organisation, also highlights the increasing dangers facing journalists in the US, including attacks on public broadcasting and legal threats.In the face of mounting pressures, how can young reporters find hope?
  • 55. Q&A: Signal and the Atlantic defence leak

    32:15||Season 2, Ep. 55
    What would you do if you got added to a messaging group that was discussing top-level classified information? This week, Alan and Lionel are asked about the Atlantic’s stunning report that some of the highest level figures in American defence discussed war plans in a Signal group containing its editor, Jeff Goldberg. How have new communication technologies changed journalism—and the search for a scoop?Alan and Lionel answer more listeners' questions on the smash Netflix series Adolescence, social media and how Michael Gove’s tenure as Spectator editor is progressing.If you have a question for Alan and Lionel send them to mediaconfidential@prospectmagazine.co.uk
  • 54. Michael Wolff: Cancelled by Trump attacks

    36:37||Season 2, Ep. 54
    In this episode Alan and Lionel talk to journalist and author Michael Wolff, who has chronicled the rise and fall and rise again of Donald Trump across his “Fire and Fury” book series. The latest instalment, “All or Nothing” was published just after Trump re-entered the White House in January.The trio discuss the future of media under Donald Trump, how he has taken control of news cycles and what happens when corporate interests infringe on the business of journalism. Wolff suggests that the media caved in to government pressure about his book. “A lot of television was set up, as happens in the pre-publication of a book, [and] as soon as the White House started to attack me all of my appearances were canceled”. “The executives who we confronted on this were pretty straightforward, they said, ‘look we are in a new climate’ and then they would blame the higher ups, the corporate overlords and super structure who has weighed in on this.”
  • 53. Q&A: How to deal with a conspiracy theory

    18:52||Season 2, Ep. 53
    How will artificial intelligence change how people consume media? Alan and Lionel discuss more listeners' questions on this week's Q&A.The editors also chew over how best to tackle conspiracy theories, and how media outlets can avoid being part of the problem.If you have a question for Alan and Lionel send them to mediaconfidential@prospectmagazine.co.uk