Made It In Music: Interviews With Artists, Songwriters, And Music Industry Pros

Interview with Seth Mosley.

In this, our inaugural episode, we hear from host, Seth Mosley. He is a Grammy, SESAC, Billboard and Dove award winning songwriter and producer whose credits include For King and Country, Newsboys, Jon Foreman and High Valley.

FCM001_-_Interview_with_Seth_Mosley

You’re listening to the Full Circle Music Show, “The Why of the Music Business”.

Chris Murphy: Hey, guys. Welcome to the Full Circle Music Show. This is Chris Murphy sitting beside Seth Mosley. Hello, sir.

Seth Mosley: Hey, man.

Chris: We thought since we’re kicking off this podcast that we wanted to speak to the man himself, multiple Dove award-winning songwriter and producer as well as GRAMMY award-winning songwriter and producer, Seth Mosley’s got Full Circle Music right here in Franklin, Tennessee, just outside of Nashville. So without further ado, let’s get right into it, the interview with Seth Mosley at Full Circle Music.

Hi. I’m excited. This is our inaugural recording and I thought maybe what we could do for our audience is to give them a little taste as to why is the Full Circle Music Show a show. Why is it a podcast? What was your idea when you decided to start this and what you hope the audience can get out of it?

Seth: Yes. I think the big thing for us was just to get around other industry professionals and find out how they’re navigating today’s ever-changing music industry because we know how crazy it is on our end of doing what we do at Full Circle Music. I do believe that there’s strength in numbers and as a music industry united going forward to make sure we’re reeling in the same direction, so to speak.

Chris: Yes. It is quite a complex group of questions and thoughts and processes and it’s ever-changing all the time regardless of what industry or genre that you produce or you write for or that you are a fan of; that it’s constantly changing out there from a business perspective. What are some of the changes that you’ve seen in the years that you’ve been producing and song writing as well as being an artist?

Seth: Sure. Well, yes. I started out as an artist. That was my entry into the music business. I toured for about three years, pretty full time. We we’re doing anywhere from 100 to 150 shows a year.

I got burned out on it really quick and figured out that the part of the process I really enjoy is what we’re doing now which is the creative side where we’re writing and producing and tracking the stuff in the studio. So that’s what I had transitioned into. But since then, there have definitely been a lot of changes. I moved to Nashville probably officially six and a half-ish years ago.

Chris: So that’s 2009, 2008, something like that?

Seth: Yes, about 2008, 2009, exactly. So right as the market was tanking and everything so I came in at a very interesting time and we hear a lot of doom and gloom surrounding the music industry with sales and streaming and Spotify, Pandora, all that stuff, and how that affects our income. We can proudly say that at Full Circle Music that every year since we’ve been in business has been our best year.

Chris: Wow.

Seth: And I don’t think that’s coincidence. I have a very positive outlook on the music industry comparatively with a lot of my other peers and people that I work with, I think.

Chris: So quickly as a side note, for those that don’t know, what is Full Circle Music to you and to the world at large?

Seth: Well, Full Circle Music is a team. It was an effort for me to intentionally come out and say that yes, this is a team support; it’s not just me. And it really always has been from the beginning but even more so now. Right now, it’s a small team but we’re growing and hopefully, in the next couple of years, it’s going to be expanding into having some writers under our roster and some producers and eventually, if it makes sense and we find the right artist to be able to even do a joint venture with a label and help develop in that way.

But again, the key word is the right people so we’ve been actually probably going on the slow side just to make sure that, who is in our team is the right people. Right now, it’s me and X. O’Connor is my co-producer, engineer, mixer. He does a good chunk of everything.

And then, we’ve got another guy, Jerricho Scroggins, yes, Jerricho Scroggins, that is the name and he’s running the ships. So it’s a lean mean machine. And then we have five or six other guys who do editing stuff for us at any given moment as well.

Chris: Well, for a small team, you got a lot of hardware on the wall. I think, that’s probably a good thing then.

Seth: The hardware per person ratio, it has been good so far.

Chris: Well, building on that, you said that every year that you guys have been doing what you’re doing that it’s been growing. What do you attribute that to when everybody else or it seems like a lot of people out there are just talking about that doom and gloom that you mentioned earlier?

Seth: I mean, I think it’s the focus on two things. Number one is, I mean, and this is a cliché, especially in Nashville, our focus is the song. Everything comes back to song writing and that’s the starting point.

Production, that’s not to say production isn’t as important. It is. But if you don’t have anything, if you don’t have a good song at the beginning so I think that’s been more of my strength. A lot of people would say they’re a producer or a writer. I would say I’m probably more so a writer-producer, if anything, and that’s why having people like X and Jerricho around are key because their strengths complement for where I lack.

So I think that’s been one thing is focus on the song. And the second thing is just the fact that it’s just our why behind why we do what we do is we’re here to serve. That’s our first thing as we’re in a service business. A friend of mine taught me that really early on when I moved to Nashville and that stuck with me. This really is a service business.

Chris: And when you say service, do you mean servicing the song, servicing the artist, servicing the label?

Seth: Yes. Yes. It’s really whoever is in front of us at any given moment, “How can I serve you?” whether that is the song or whether that’s the artist. The fact is that we are just here to enable and help facilitate artists to pursue their dreams and their careers. So any way that we can add value to what somebody’s doing, that’s our mantra.

We’re always here to serve first. We’re not coming into a room with any sense of ego or, “What can we get out of this situation?” but, “Hey, we’re here to serve and give and give and give and give” and it seems like it’s just been, for lack of a better term, the universe’s way of giving back to us. We come in with that mentality and it seems to be working okay.

Chris: is there a tangible example of that that you can think of off the top of your head? And if you need to leave names out, that’s fine but maybe something that really shows that service.

Seth: Yes. I would say honestly and this wasn’t some brand new concept that we came up with; it was really more something that I learned by seeing how some other peers and mentors in the business were doing, it is just the fact of they don’t quit until they are as just happy.

And that’s the same with us. We’ll go rounds and rounds and rounds and rounds and sometimes, actually, I had a conversation with a friend of mine about this and we always have to remind ourselves that Michael Jackson’s Thriller underwent 97 or so versions before they settled on the final.

Chris: 97?

Seth: Something like 97. I know it’s almost 100.

Chris: Wow. Good grief.

Seth: But I think that’s one very tangible thing. We’re not stopping until the artist, the label, the manager, and everybody is really, really pumped and signed off and proud to have their names on it.

Chris: I was actually talking to Jerricho about this a couple of days ago, this exact topic. Before you, as a producer, writer, a person who is a go-between, when do you get to the point where you say, you know there’s that saying that the customer is always right?

Seth: Yes.

Chris: Is there ever a point in time where you say, “Well, I understand that but my experience says that maybe we need to go down this path. And then maybe…”, how do you lead that into that conversation if that’s the case for you?

Seth: Sure. No, that’s a great question and it could very often be the case where I have – obviously, this is a very subjective business.

Chris: Absolutely.

Seth: And it’s not a business of what’s right and what’s wrong. It’s really a business of again, I’m putting my preferences, opinions, and even “expertise” aside sometimes to serve what an artist’s vision is because there’s a lot of the times that yes, it probably isn’t the first thing that I would do. That doesn’t mean it’s right or wrong. It just means that I’m helping draw out the best version of them.

You said like my expertise on what works and what doesn’t work, that’s been another thing that served us really well is I think we try go on with the mentality of, “Hey, there’s no black and white; there’s no rules; there’s not a ‘this works and this doesn’t work’.”

Granted, we do work in some pretty narrow radio-driven formats, and there are things, but here’s the thing. I mean, we always chase the artist’s dream all the way to the moon. Sometimes, I have to pull it back to the earth. We could very easily, in those situations, just like you said, point to the hardware on the wall and say, “Check the score.” I’ve heard some guys say that. I can never imagine personally us doing that.

Chris: True.

Seth: I think we’re literally probably the opposite of that to a fault.

Chris: Well, again, I think that that’s probably why you’re in demand and a pleasure to work with. Because there are a lot of people out there, there are a lot of producers or songwriters that people could go to, so the fact that they’re choosing you, it’s because you bring that unique personality to it that draws people to it.

For a producer that’s getting started out there or a songwriter as well, what’s a tip or two that you could point them to when you talk about service and trying to find the artist’s vision if you’re producing a project? What’s something that’s an applicable take-away that somebody could jump into right now?

Seth: Well, I would say if you’re trying to learn to get good at your craft of production or song writing or anything in the music business, learn to do that but even more so, learn to be a collaborator. I think there are a lot of really good songwriters that we know that shoot themselves in the foot; that they are the most talented people in the world.

But they’d probably be a lot more successful if they just spent a little more energy learning how to be collaborators rather than just saying, “Here’s the idea. Here’s the vibe. Take it or leave it.” I would say focus on that and that just takes a lot of humility, really.

So just do some soul-searching and say, “Why am I in this in the first place? Am I in this because I’m trying to scratch some ego itch that I have or an insecurity or whatever?”

Chris: True.

Seth: So I would say that’s first and foremost because people look for collaborators. They’re not really looking, especially nowadays, for ultimatums.

Chris: Yes. That’s a really good point and it makes me think about when you were saying earlier that you were on the road, pretty hard core, for several years and it burned you out pretty badly. Was there a moment in that process that where you thought, “Okay. I’m a good writer. I produce stuff. This could be a path for me more so than being the artist on the road and the tour bus?”

Seth: Sure, or the tour van. We ended up in the bus on the very tail end of what we were doing and it’s ironic that yes, as soon as we got into a bus, I was already burned out. That’s kind of whatever you’ve been, shoot for it. It’s still like get on the road and hop a bus and be flying around and doing it that way. I think there was a really clear moment and that was in the beautiful, glorious state of Iowa. Every time we went through Iowa on tour, it seemed like something, the universe was just against us.

Chris: Sure.

Seth: Like God was saying, “Do not go to Iowa.”

Chris: “Just drive around the corner.”

Seth: “Drive around it.” So the last straw in Iowa, still probably story number three or four after having broken down there and stuck there in snowstorms and ice storms, all that other stuff, the last straw was we were on tour out there and it was, of course, snowing and sleeting and everything and the van, I think we were outside of Sioux City and we heard a giant bang and we looked around like “What in the world?” and then the van just grinds to a halt.

Chris: Oh, no.

Seth: We got out and it looked like somebody shot a cannonball through the bottom of the wall, like something literally blew up under it.

Chris: Wow.

Seth: So it was at that point that we had to call U-Haul, sit there in the cold for two and a half hours, and wait on them to show up. We finally got to the venue and in order to just stay and get home from that that weekend that we were doing it, to drive a U-Haul and run a rental car and drive all night, the choice was do we fix the van or do we just dump it and leave it there with the trailer and say, “Hasta la vista” because we owed money on it and that for me was like, I felt like it was God’s way of saying, “Hey, maybe it’s time to start focusing on something else.”

Chris: Sure.

Seth: We never went back for the van or the trailer.

Chris: Really?

Seth: Somebody’s still there with it.

Chris: Wow.

Seth: It was a tax write-off. That was the moment. And honestly, sometimes life does that where it just makes decisions for you and sometimes, that’s what we need and that’s what that was very clearly because I had been doing production and writing the whole time and was having some success at it and honestly, taking care of our family through that side of things, the financials of touring were not in our favor.

Chris: Sure.

Seth: But on the production and writing side, I already had some things rolling with these boys and some other projects as well, too. So it was a natural transition and a lot of people say, “You just make the leap of faith out and just switch.” But honestly for us, it wasn’t a leap of faith; for us it was a no-brainer.

It was, “Hey, I get to stay home with my wife” and we didn’t have kids at the time but we got to stay home, hang out, didn’t have to go get in the van and drive all night or a bus, and actually pay our bills with this. So for us, it was a bit of a no-brainer and that was definitely the situation that sparked it for us.

Chris: Oh, I think that’s a good transition that I’d love to hear. From somebody that’s been on many different sides of the music industry, being an artist and now producer, songwriter extraordinaire, is that process…

Seth: Extraordinaire, I don’t know about that.

Chris: Okay, then I’ll just that out loud. You don’t have to agree with it but I’ll say it for you; that I think that it makes sense to talk about you may have a sole passion in the music industry or whatever industry that you’re in but the fact that you had many different things going on, you didn’t have all your eggs on one basket, so to speak. Could you speak to that for those out there that are saying that, “You know what? I just want to be behind the boards. I just want to be in a bus and break down in the middle of Iowa like that’s my dream, that’s my passion?” Is there validity in having your eggs spread out or is there also validity in having all your eggs in one basket when you were chasing that dream?

Seth: I would say that I would go back to the proverb of chase two rabbits and you will catch neither. I think the moment that we made that decision to get off the road and focus on one thing was like a cannonball. It was like a spark for our career on the production and writing side.

Just, it was like, “Okay. Well, there’s no longer conflict of interest. There’s no longer making the decision of what do I focus my energy on? I only focus on one thing.”

Chris: Sure.

Seth: And it’s the Full Circle Music side so I’m a very big believer in being focused on one thing. I think in the financial industry, we hear a lot about diversify, diversify, diversify.

Chris: Sure.

Seth: And that is true, once you’ve achieved some success, to protect what you have.

Chris: Right.

Seth: When you’re in the beginning stages and growing and growing and growing, it’s really, “Put all of your eggs in one basket and watch that basket really carefully.” That’s what I’m leaning towards.

Chris: Yes, that makes sense. So watch that basket carefully and then when you get to the point where that’s on autopilot or that it’s running itself, whatever it is, then maybe you can move on to something else.

Seth: Yes. And even then, I don’t know that there is ever truly an autopilot. There’s some degree of yes, we can maybe take some time off and stuff will still happen and what not but I think no matter what the case is, if you’re focusing on one thing, that means it’s one thing that you’re not focusing on. You’re taking away from the other side of things.

Chris: Yes.

Seth: Honestly, there’s always going to be a little bit of trade-off there.

Chris: Right.

Seth: I think honestly, well, there’s a really good book. Actually, I would recommend it to all the listeners out there. It’s Gary Keller’s The ONE Thing. And we recently went through it and it was really good for me on focus.

Chris: Absolutely.

Seth: And that applies to people in music or investing or anything in life, to be honest. I’m very big on focus.

Chris: That’s great. Do you miss it? Do you miss the road? Do you miss being an artist?

Seth: Not for one second.

Chris: No?

Seth: Every time I see a bus drive by or a van or a trailer, I’m just like, “Oh, thank God that I’m not on it.” I start sweating for the people inside it.

Chris: Oh, man. Okay, you got some sort of a response to some PTSD or something from being on the road, huh?

Seth: Well, I’m making it sound really bad but honestly, I mean, there is a lot of great things. And probably the biggest thing for me was I met my wife through it. So had I not done it, I wouldn’t have known her and we wouldn’t be where are today.

So the universe definitely has its way of circling things back around and then we’re just part of how God used, and I think He used it honestly to our favor on even what we’re doing right now because we’re able to relate with artists in a different way than somebody who’s never been on the road.

Chris: It sure is.

Seth: We have first-hand experience to say, “Okay. I know. I know what you’re going through. I know how hard you’re working every night. I know what it is to play these songs every night and go to the radio tours” because we’ve done that and we’ve been there.

Chris: True.

Seth: So it helps us relate in a different way.

Chris: Other than just that experience of just being in the trenches for years and doing it and then transitioning to what you’re doing now with the producing and song writing or song writing and producing, what kind of education did you have behind you when you started?

Seth: A high school diploma.

Chris: Okay.

Seth: Where I grew up in Ohio, we had a thing called post-secondary education where you could take college classes in high school. And I did probably 12 credit hours of that so that was the extent of my education.

Chris: Oh, wow. Okay.

Seth: And YouTube really wasn’t even a thing now and that is a big part of education nowadays. You can learn to do anything you want on the internet.

Chris: Sure.

Seth: That really wasn’t as much of a thing that was available. People weren’t creating these tutorials and videos of how to do stuff; it was really just diving in and watching other people work.

Chris: So really from the music business standpoint, your life experiences was your classroom.

Seth: Exactly. Yes. But that’s not to discount – I would say that’s my classroom but the other part of that is just watching other professionals and what can I learn from them. And part of our servant mentality is walking into a room saying, “Hey, what can I learn?” not “What can I teach?”

A lot of people graduated from college nowadays that we find, because we have an internship program, and we have some great interns. But we’ve also sensed a little bit of a mentality and I don’t know, it’s just been in the past few years of maybe it is an entitlement thing where people think they’re going to graduate and get hired as a producer or a songwriter and get a job, a publishing deal or whatever it is.

That’s really not the way it works. You have to come into a room and show that, “Hey, I’m here to serve and I’m here to add value.” And only then do things start opening up for you.

Chris: Yes, that makes sense. So I guess the palm on the wall is great. But if it doesn’t have the experience behind it then it doesn’t speak too much.

Seth: Yes, and the heart behind it to serve. I mean, I think nowadays, this is so important. You just have to be going into a room, “How can I add value? How can I add value?” and not “What can I get out of this situation?”

Chris: Sure. What would you say to somebody who’s sitting in a music score right now or doing a production licensing or whatever that would look like that’s in the thick of it, that’s listening because they want to graduate in a few months and come in Nashville and be on the Seth Mosley plan?

Seth: Yes. No, I mean, we have, me and Jerricho, have these discussions all the time with our interns saying, “Okay. It’s really all about why am I doing what I’m doing?”

Chris: Sure.

Seth: Because we never want to put off the vibe that, “Hey, don’t go to college; that you’re not going to get anywhere with it.” That’s not what we’re saying at all. It’s more so, “Hey, if you’re going to college, how do you use that to further and get closer to where you want to be?”

Chris: Absolutely.

Seth: And really, it’s all what you make of it. It’s all what you put into it; who are meeting; who are you serving; what kind of experiences are you getting out of it; what are you learning. So I would say if you really feel strongly that you’re using that as something to get closer to where you’re going, keep on and finish strong.

Chris: That’s great. Yes.

Seth: But I would also say on a more down to earth, realistic, because we’re definitely a realist over here, on a realistic note that don’t think that just because you do graduate and get that diploma that it’s going to mean that you’re going to get hired right away.

Chris: Sure.

Seth: Maybe that’s one in a hundred or one in a thousand situations. But you’re going to get hired because of who you are and what dynamic you add to a room. If you have a diploma, maybe that’s icing on the cake but that’s definitely not what we look for in a company or in a student or somebody to hire.

Chris: So just to nail it down, what are you looking for when you’re reaching out to find either an intern or the next employee? So for someone out there that’s like, “Oh, okay. I get what stuff he’s saying but maybe what are a few things that I need to be working on to make sure that by the time I’m ready to strike, I’m ready to go?”

Seth: Well, I think and not to keep saying the same thing and be a broken record, but we look for servant hearts. That’s the first and foremost thing. Second thing is yes, I mean, there’s got to be some raw talent there. And again, that’s all subjective, too.

Chris: Sure.

Seth: But we have to at least really dig and connect on a creative level. Otherwise, it’s not going to work that way. And the third thing would just be work ethic and enthusiasm for it because it’s not a business that really lets you have typical 9am – 5pm, most weekends off.

I mean, we try really hard at Full Circle to have a pretty normal semblance of a normal life for me and for the guys that work with us because I think that’s important for balance. But that’s definitely on the beginning, maybe not the norm.

Chris: Yes.

Seth: It’s a little more the exception. So I would say just you got to know what you want to do and have the work ethic, have the enthusiasm to stay up all night and grind it out until you get good because it really is about that 10,000 hours and putting that in. And if even that, I’ mean, I’m still feeling like as we cross our 10,000-hour threshold like man, I’m still learning everyday and I feel like if you’re not, you’re just getting further and further behind.

Chris: Sure. Seth, this is great, man. In one of the opening episodes of this podcast, we both sat down and talked that we wanted to really hear from other industry professionals and their heart and their desire and their expertise so that can be something that others can grow from.

But I’m grateful that you’re willing to sit down with us today and give your heart and I know that you’re going to be giving that a lot because you’re going to be sitting at the microphone everytime.

But to hear from you and to see where you’ve come from and where you’re going and I think the biggest take-away is the fact that you said when you walk into a room, you think, “How can I serve?” Or, “What can I give not what can I get?” so to speak.

Seth: Yes.

Chris: I think that’s huge.

Seth: Yes.

Chris: And so I appreciate that. But is there anything else you’d like to leave the audience with as we step away here?

Seth: I mean, I would say, the other big thing is yes, serve but it’s also, it’s a kind of piggyback on what we were saying earlier. If I could put any title behind it, it’s no plan B. I think the people who have a fallback plan are going to do that fallback plan.

Chris: Absolutely.

Seth: At some point, you got a wife and kids and you got to do what’s responsible for them especially when you’re on the frontend. If you’re single or young or married or whatever, you just grind it on, figure out how to make it work.

Another friend of mine who’s in the industry who’s been in it for a long time, that was his advice in his panel, to a bunch of Belmont, probably 200 Belmont song writing students.

He had them raise their hand and say, “Hey, who has a plan B?” Probably 75% of the room put their hands up. And he said, “Okay. Get out now.” And he wasn’t saying that to be mean. He was just saying, “Hey, that’s the reality.” If you have a plan B, you’re going to do the plan B.

Chris: Yes, sure.

Seth: Honestly, I didn’t know growing up or in high school what else besides music I would do. It was just the only thing that I felt like I knew how to do and the only thing that drove me and get me happiness and satisfaction. Obviously, as life progresses, you develop those things. But honestly, not having a plan B is the best thing in the world for you because you’re going to figure out how to make it work because you have to.

Chris: That’s great. Seth, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it.

Seth: Yes.

Chris: Hey, we hoped you’ve enjoyed this episode and will join us again soon on the Full Circle Music Show, The Why of the Music Hits.

Check us out at fullcirclemusic.org/podcast.

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