Share
UnHerd with Freddie Sayers
Church leaders: vaccine passports are un-Christian
Over the weekend, over 1,200 church leaders from a range of denominations sent an open letter to the Prime Minister. It warned that vaccine passports raised serious ethical concerns and risked creating a ‘surveillance state’ that would ‘bring about the end of liberal democracy as we know it’.
Earlier today, we spoke to two of the original signatories Dr. William Philip, of the Tron church in Glasgow, and Dr. Jamie Franklin, who is curator of St. George in the meadow in Nottingham. Both offered a scathing assessment of the vaccine passport plan and explained why they could not support it:
'When you say that there is a possibility that the government may try and force us to exclude people from churches on the basis of whether or not they’ve had a certain medical treatment, that crosses a line for lots and lots of sincere people.' - JAMIE FRANKLIN
'It’s impossible theologically for the Christian church to close its doors to those who have been branded by society as socially undesirable. It is absolutely anathema to the Christian gospel. It would be like the Lord Jesus Christ standing up and saying, ‘Well come to me all you who labour and are heavy laden, except those of you who are sick, blind, tax collectors and sinners — you’ve got to produce your passport’' - WILLIAM PHILIP
On the failures of the church:
'Many of us have been frustrated, both in the church and in society, with what we see is a considerable lack of Christian Leadership over the last 12 months. We feel that senior church leaders across all denominations have given an imprimatur to the dictates of the government and of the secular, unelected technocrats who appear to be running things at the moment. People are extremely frustrated with this.I’m a curate at the bottom of the food chain. I’ve only been ordained for less than two years. But there’s such a dearth of leadership that I felt like it was necessary for me to do something' - JAMIE FRANKLIN
'A Christian would never argue that physical health and protection is the ultimate thing. A Christian must say that eternal health is infinitely more important…And this is the problem: the message of the church collapsed into one of merely health and safety in a temporal way. It has entirely omitted speaking about hope and salvation. That is a catastrophic failure of the institutional church' - WILLIAM PHILIP
On the church’s hypocrisy:
'The Church of England bishops had absolutely no problem with denouncing Brexit in a very enthusiastic manner. So there is a justification for this, but it’s just an inconsistent justification…we’re not a thermometer simply telling the temperature of the culture but we’re a thermostat. We’re supposed to have an influence on the culture, not simply to follow the culture' - JAMIE FRANKLIN
On unvaccinated churchgoers:
'The crucial issue as far as Christian churches are concerned is: am I supposed to say no to somebody who doesn’t want a vaccine? Someone who is in obedience to their conscience? And, as they see it, in obedience to the commander, Jesus Christ? Am I to say to them, ‘Well, then you cannot come into the church of Jesus Christ, your obedience to Jesus prevents you from coming into worship?' - WILLIAM PHILIP
'As ministers of the gospel, our message is to not stay at home and stay safe. It is that the only salvation is Christ — he’s the only one who can save us from death. So if people want to take a vaccine because it will protect them and they feel it’s right for them, that’s great. But as ministers of the gospel, our message is that ultimately Jesus is our Saviour, and not a vaccine or indeed any medical treatment' - JAMIE FRANKLIN
More episodes
View all episodes
Michael Tracey: In defence of Prince Andrew
45:05|UnHerd's Freddie Sayers talks to journalist Michael Tracey about the arrest of Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor and what Tracey describes as a "moral panic" surrounding the Epstein scandal. Tracey challenges the mainstream narrative, arguing that the case against the former Prince relies on fictionalised accounts and inconsistent testimony from the late Virginia Giuffre, and by examining recently surfaced FBI memos and the charges of misconduct in public office, suggests that the current constitutional crisis is driven more by mass hysteria and media credulity than by unassailable legal evidence.
Anton Jäger: The Far-Right's route to victory
01:03:25|UnHerd’s Jonny Ball meets historian, academic, and author Anton Jäger to discuss his new book ‘Hyperpolitics: Extreme Politicization without Political Consequences’, charting the pronounced shift in engagement and death of political institutions since the 1980s via analysis of movements like Brexit, BLM, and the rise of the far-Right.
Danish minister: Here's how we controlled immigration
20:39|UnHerd’s Freddie Sayers meets with former Danish Minister for Immigration and Integration, Kaare Dybvad Bek – fresh from his high-profile talk at the Policy Exchange - to explore how his centre-Left Social Democrats party successfully implemented hardline immigration policies to reduce asylum applications to their lowest in 40 years. He argues that by curbing uncontrolled migration, the Danish government has effectively neutralised the populist far-Right and maintained public trust in the welfare state, offering a blueprint for other European leaders - including Keir Starmer - on how to manage borders from a progressive, pro-labour perspective.
Robby Soave on 'Epstein Derangement Syndrome'
32:10|UnHerd's Freddie Sayers talks with senior editor at Reason, Robby Soave, about the long-awaited release of the Epstein Files and the fallout following the disclosure. Has the dump of millions of unverified documents sparked a modern-day witch hunt, where gossip is mistaken for evidence and guilt by association replaces due process? They explore how both ends of the political spectrum have weaponised the files to smear opponents, the high cost of sacrificing privacy, and why the lone “no” vote in Congress may have been the most prescient voice of all.
Can Reform win in Manchester?
54:35|UnHerd’s Freddie Sayers explores the upcoming high-stakes by-election of Gorton and Denton with a deep dive into the constituency and its localised microcosm of global populist trends. He is joined by Professor of Political Science at the University of Manchester, Rob Ford, founder and editor of the Manchester Mill, Joshi Herrmann, and councillors Allan Hopwood (Reform) and Shahbaz Sarwar (Workers Party) to analyse whether the Labour stronghold will crumble under pressure from a surging Green Party or a high-profile Reform UK campaign led by Matt Goodwin within a new landscape of sectarian identity politics and deepening public frustration with the UK’s traditional two-party system.
Glenn Loury: Elon Musk’s apartheid politics
26:31|UnHerd's Freddie Sayers talks to eminent economist and social scientist Professor Glenn Loury about a troubling new shift in American discourse: the rise of Right-wing identity politics. Traditionally a critic of the woke Left, Loury turns his sights on the world’s wealthiest man, arguing that Elon Musk is making a "category mistake" by importing South African racial anxieties into the American context. By embracing white solidarity and racial essentialism, Loury argues, the Right is not defeating identity politics, but is instead adopting a politically destructive mirror image of the very ideology they claim to oppose.
John Bew: The Davos world is over
50:41|In this exclusive interview, UnHerd’s Freddie Sayers speaks with Professor John Bew - leading historian and chief foreign policy advisor to the last four UK Prime Ministers – about the friction caused by the Trump administration's push to acquire Greenland and the resulting panic within the Western alliance. Set against the backdrop of the 2026 Davos summit, the conversation confronts the 'break glass' moment facing Western leaders and explores the uncomfortable reality of our current era: Will the UK shift from economic dependency toward restoring its own national power to navigate a scary new era of ‘bully powers’? Is the Western alliance truly over, or can a nuanced and multi-layered approach preserve the core security frameworks that have defined the last 80 years? How should middle powers respond when the United States - the traditional guarantor of global norms - begins to operate under a pre-1945 logic of annexation and unilateral tariffs? And could a new Northern European alliance provide the necessary leverage to protect sovereign interests in an increasingly bipolar world?
The ICE debate: Sohrab Ahmari vs Jenin Younes
53:55|Freddie Sayers debates the killing of Renee Good by ICE Agent Jonathan Ross in Minneapolis with civil liberties attorney Jenin Younes and UnHerd’s US editor Sohrab Ahmari, examining the incident through the lens of the "Rashomon effect" where observers draw diametrically opposite conclusions from the same evidence. Was the shooting a catastrophic violation of civil liberties and potentially an illegal execution, or does the responsibility lie with Good for obstructing a lawful federal operation and “weaponising" her vehicle, a view echoed by the Trump administration's branding of the event as an act of domestic terrorism. The discussion concludes with YouGov’s David Montgomery, who reveals how the broader American public view the use of force, and what significant long-term political risks the incident may yield for the Republican project.
Why Trump will get Greenland
43:41|UnHerd’s Freddie Sayers speaks with author and Cambridge professor Helen Thompson, economist Pippa Malmgren, and Danish MEP Henrik Dahl about the Trump administration's escalating rhetoric and strategic moves to acquire Greenland. Covering the historical legal underpinnings of Danish sovereignty while analysing modern geopolitical drivers such as the Monroe Doctrine, Arctic militarisation, and the essential role of the region in a new space race for strategic security dominance, they explore how the Greenland situation is symptomatic of a profound breakdown in trust between Washington and Western Europe, with the administration increasingly viewing European leadership as obstructive political rivals in a shifting global order.