This Sustainable Life

How do you make sense of an entire society or nation violating its values? Consider Germany in the 1930s, in which a whole nation seemed to embrace Nazism.It's tempting to say they're all monsters, but how could over 50 million people change in a few years? Not genetics. They must have been no more or less human in 1940 as 1920.It's tempting to say that monsters took over and changed them. Many people thought so. At the end of World War II, a psychiatrist, Douglas Kelley, was sent to evaluate the highest level Nazis who had been captured and were to be tried in the Nuremberg trials. He believed that these leaders must have differed from most people. He wanted to find that difference in order to help prevent people with whatever traits he found from repeating what they did. He was deeply troubled to find no meaningful difference between them and normal results on his tests.Jack El-Hai told Kelley's story in his book The Nazi and the Psychiatrist, including interacting directly with Herman Göring, at one point the second highest ranking Nazi. In our conversation, Jack tells the highlights of his book. I discuss the relevance to polluting and depleting today, where everyone is contributing, violating our own values, but contributing to much more suffering and death than even the Holocaust.We also talk about the movie Nuremberg based on the book, including its stars, Russell Crowe and Rami Malek.Jack's home pageHis book page

As a great-grandmother, Beth probably wouldn't describe herself as an influencer, but what else do you call it when videos of her go viral and prompt people to follow her?Longtime podcast listeners may remember episode 754: (Aunt) Trish Ellis and (Niece) Evelyn Wallace, part 1: Not Even Cancer Holds Her Back. We mentioned Beth, Evelyn’s mom and Trish’s sister. All three of them took the workshop. Beth and Evelyn also took my leadership and initiative courses that I offered to workshop alumni.Beth's initiative project was to pick up litter daily, but not just pick it up. She was inspired by an initiative she'd seen to restore pride in a community. For example, I pick up litter, but I just do it to clean where I walk. Her goal was bigger: to restore and inspire pride in where she lives, Mérida, Mexico. She planned things like a sign to invite favorable attention, what to wear, when to go out, how to talk to people.She's been picking up litter since. Then last month, at an alumni online lunch, she shared that someone secretly recorded her, posted the video, and by then the video had been seen over 1 million times. Plus, attention was leading to people joining her movement, opportunity to work with government, and more. I posted about it on my blog: Secret video of Beth picking up litter goes viral in Mexico.I invited her to share here. Listen for what happens when you persist.Beth's community page: Yo ❤ Mérida limpia. ¿Y tú?My post on her, linking to her videos and some media coverage: Secret video of Beth picking up litter goes viral in Mexico

I met Stan in person at an event in Brooklyn. I had read Ministry for the Future a few years ago. He pointed out something I hadn't noticed since most people identify him as a science fiction writer. Ministry for the Future isn't exactly science fiction. He projects into the future, but he only includes plausible things---no flying cars or time travel.This practice invigorated my interest in his work. I also asked him how he handled water in New York 2140, since I knew it would have to be heavily polluted from sea level rise would flood landfills and cause their contents to disperse throughout the oceans. I enjoyed talking to him and invited him here.He has another identify besides as an author. He knows a lot about our environmental situation and attempts to address it. He's not an activist but more than an educator.I couldn't wait to engage with him on both identities. For him as an author, I found more to learn from him than I expected relevant to leadership, which I consider a performance art. As a writer, he has to create visions that readers accept and embrace. He has to express himself candidly but in a language the reader likes and feels engaged to continue. These points are relevant to leadership I asked him a bunch about the art and craft of writing from the perspective of someone wanting to improve his leadership.Naturally, we also talked about creativity regarding solutions.

Most environmentalists that I know of consider themselves progressive or liberal. They propose solutions that increase regulation and grow government, often in the style of the New Deal. Their role models are generally also progressive and liberal. They present conservatives as opponents, even enemies, sometimes evil. They consider them interested in themselves and profit, not caring who suffers for it.Over and over, they say about conservatives, "They don't care." Meanwhile, they pollute as much as anyone. They fund future extraction, companies that extract and pollute, their politicians, and lobbyists promoting more.I don't think they actually talk to conservatives. They project their preconceptions onto them and treat them as straw men.David Jenkins helps lead a conservative group that promotes stewardship. I suspect many environmentalists would consider the combination impossible, wondering if it's a front group.What do you expect? Could conservative values promote decreasing pollution, depletion, plunder, and misappropriating nature?Listen and find out.Conservatives for Responsible Stewardship's web page

That this country has a region called Cancer Alley is beyond tragic. We know we're causing it, not just the companies operating the polluting refineries and other industrial plants. All of us who buy their products are funding them.I wondered if it was fair to call the region Cancer Alley. Is the evidence clear enough, even if not for a court to award damages?Peter DeCarlo is a researcher at Johns Hopkins who did original research and answered definitively: Yes. In our conversation, he described what motivated him to this research, the research, interacting with residents of Cancer Alley, how it affects him, physically and emotionally, and why he keeps going. It turns out his motivation started long before the research.The conversation returns at the end to some parts of his life at the beginning. I hope it motivates some to act out of the potential for life fulfillment.Peter's faculty page at Johns HopkinsThe video of Peter produced by podcast guest Maya Lilly: Justice for Saint James

John returns to describe his upcoming book The Art of the Steal: Trump and the Economic Hit Man Presidency, described as his best book of the Economic Hit Man series. I'm honored that he came to this podcast first.Longtime listeners and readers know how much of an impression Confessions of an Economic Hit Man made on me. Regular blog readers know from my descriptions of my upcoming book how much imperialism factors into it. John's book couldn't have come at a better time.Listen to this whole conversation. He starts by describing the new book, then puts it in context of how what he wrote about decades ago is happening more than ever, and by the US government on its own citizens. I think you'll feel as I do that I'd rather it weren't happening but since it is, I'd rather know than not know.I say to listen to the whole episode, especially if you're listening around the date I publish (July 3, 2026) because none of what he says or writes is complaining. He shares how everything he says and writes is to restore American ideals like liberty, freedom, equality, democracy, and national security. He states it better than I can.John's home pageHis page on his new book The Art of the Steal: Trump and the Economic Hit Man PresidencyHis blog

I'd seen the "1% for the Planet" logo many times and figured it was an organization that helped, but I didn't think of how. The businessman in me wondered, shouldn't companies just lower prices 1% and let people donate what they want? Does one percent make much difference?Kate was passing through New York so we got to meet in person. In this recording, she answers these questions and more. She describes the organization more comprehensively, but briefly, 1% for the Planet organizes other organizations, some to donate, others to receive, and vets them.What interested me most was their long-term goal, which is cultural change, which fits with mine.Kate didn't found the organization, but as CEO has scaled the network to 110 countries and 65 industries, driving close to $1 billion in certified giving. She also shares her personal background that motivates her, which also interested me, since from the start of the conversation, her leadership experience and style emerge. Anyone who knows me knows I consider effective leadership one of the most important needs in reducing pollution and depletion.Kate's home page1% for the Planet

It turns out Steven's readers split into two camps with little overlap. I figure most listeners belong to the War of Art camp. If you haven't read the book and want to live a better life, I recommend it, in the top few percent of recommendations. It's powerful, engaging, memorable, and short.The other camp reads his fiction books. His latest is The Arcadian, which stands alone but connects with his last book A Man at Arms. I read both and now belong to both camps, proudly. One goal of this conversation is to entice listeners to join both Pressfield camps too.This podcast is about leadership applied to sustainability, not just personal leadership and art. Just because I like his books doesn't mean his fiction is relevant to this podcast. I found one part delivered a powerful gut punch that I found relevant to our lives.Blog readers will have seen my post about that part after reading The Arcadian Wounded Warriors, by Steven Pressfield, and Ourselves. That part describes what happens to people when we are induced to violate our values. Steven and I talked about that section. He described it as the core of the book.The situation warriors face and must deal with is more concentrated than we do, but their ways of handling it are similar to how we do, despite our violations being more diffuse. We would help ourselves handle our lives by facing that we are violating our values, even if, like the warriors, society rewards us for it. Only by facing it can we resolve it. In our case, we can change our culture to stop corrupting us.We can learn a lot from Steven. Not many people sell millions of books. Many followers is a top sign of leadership.Steven's home pageHis booksHis weekly blogMy recent blog post about The Arcadian, about the section of the book we talked about it: Wounded Warriors, by Steven Pressfield, and Ourselves

This podcast is about leadership first and foremost, applied to sustainability. Most of the time when people hear or read "sustainability," that concept overrides everything else. They forget or don't notice else, but here, in this podcast it comes second. If you haven't developed the social and emotional skills to lead based on intrinsic motivation, if you try to convince, cajole, coerce, or seek compliance, you'll probably influence people to resist and oppose you and what you're promoting.I see Eric's book, How to Know Your Self (note the two words: "your" and "self") is a book on self awareness based on an interactive course on self awareness. I've never heard an experience leader suggest that lower self awareness helps and I've heard plenty say it does.Since we all pollute and deplete, which hurts people, we know we're violating our values, which tends to evoke emotions we don't like. We hide them from ourselves. We lower our self awareness. We could use tools to increase our self awareness.Eric's book delivers. We talk about how the book came to be, his course, how it differs from regular classes, and what people get out of it. I hope you listen, read the book, use it to increase your self awareness, and use that increase to lead yourself and others more effectively.Eric's home pageEric's page for How to Know Your SelfEric's faculty page at the University of ChicagoEric's podcast: Knowing