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This Sustainable Life
380: Matthew Stevenson, part 1: Why Befriend a White Nationalist?
Matthew is friends with the guy who built the white nationalist online community, Stormfront. He is also an observant orthodox Jew. You may have heard about him because the pair made headlines and appeared on the Daily Show and shows like that.
Matthew and Derek Black made headlines because Matthew invited Derek to Shabat dinner in college. They became friends. Derek eventually disavowed his earlier beliefs, in large part because of their friendship.
In our conversation, Matthew shares his side of the story. Most interviews featured Derek, which will get more ratings, but I find Matthew's initiative in leading by engaging more inspiring, especially for those of us not raised as white nationalists. I compare how the mainstream approaches people they disagree with---"punch a Nazi" or saying the others don't care---with Matthew's approach. I don't think people realize Matthew's effectiveness.
I could try to describe it, but Matthew has lived it, in particular in a situation with as diametrically opposed views you can imagine. Rarely do I find myself speechless to add to what the guest said. All I can say is I learned more than I expected and I expected to learn a lot.
I expect to listen to this episode many times over the years. I'll keep in touch with Matthew too and bring him back. What I'm trying to work on in leading people I disagree with, he's done for longer with more personal at stake.
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826. 826: Jo Nemeth, part 1: Living without money frees her to do what she loves
48:28||Ep. 826Can you imagine living without money? Humans lived without money for 250,000 years, so it's not necessary for life. Money seems like an invention on par with the big ones, like fire, the wheel, writing, and language.Right off the bat, Jo shares how her life before choosing to live without money was stressful, with less freedom or free time. If you thought having more money would give you more freedom, more free time, and less stress, her experiencing the opposite may prompt you to consider the basics of human interaction. What does it mean about our lifestyles, values, and beliefs that having zero of our culture promotes having more of actually giving us what we want?In earning a doctorate in experimental science, maybe the most fundamental thing I learned is that no matter what I expect or want, nature is always right. If my theory predicts one thing but nature does something different, nature is right and my theory is wrong. Jo's experience suggests something wrong at the heart of economic theory.Anyway, you'll hear how she learned of the possibility of living without money and acted on it. You'll also hear our mutual appreciation and admiration of our living without things society teaches us we can't live without. We're not extreme. More like we're conservative and loving.Jo's page: Jolowimpact Moneyless Low Impact Living825. 825: Ryan Mandelbaum, part 2: Rising to the challenge of random acts of friendliness
27:19||Ep. 825Ryan shares his experience approaching people to share in his joy. The task is not easy anywhere, least of all the Bronx, where he doesn't live but was visiting.Do people in the big city want to hear why some guy is walking around looking at trees and the sky? They wouldn't know he was bird watching until he told them. Do you think they'd welcome him or consider some guy with big binoculars too odd?I don't think I'll spoil anything by giving away that the several conversations he initiated went well because the issue is how they went well and how it led him to feel and act the next day and after.Aren't we all looking for ways to talk about the environment and sustainability that bring joy, affect people, and result in them expressing gratitude?Ryan's home page824. 824: Dr. Rob Reed, part 2: Learning to love leading effectively
41:39||Ep. 824Rob starts by sharing his experience from leadership coaching in the context of a hospital with people in intensive care as well as their families. Situations are often emotionally intense. Treating just facts doesn't work, or can work against you. It can be "terribly ineffective" (not unique to medicine).He recounts learning to lead through emotional awareness, using social and emotional skills he developed through practice in our coaching. He connects with people meaningfully: patients, their families, the other members of his team, everyone.He talks about not telling people what to do but to listen and act with empathy and compassion, that he's developing through deliberate practice.Maybe the most heartfelt part of our conversation comes at the end where he speaks about his longtime vision and dreams for being a doctor. As much as he wanted to care for patients and their families, now he sees how much the skills of leadership enable him to help far more people by leading others to care more effectively.823. 823: Mark Mills, part 5: We’ll Never Have an Energy Transition
01:06:42||Ep. 823Reading Mark's recent piece We’ll Never Have an Energy Transition in Manhattan Institute's City Journal prompted me to write my recent post, When they say “transition fuel,” they mean “more polluting and depleting,” not less pollution or depletion.Read them both and you'll see he inspired what I wrote and he wrote a lot more, with more research and editing. I recommend reading it and listening to his podcast episode there, but I'd start with this one. In our conversation, you'll hear more details and back story.The core idea of his piece: Every fuel we’ve ever used, we still use, and more than ever. If you think that by ramping up solar and wind that in any way that new energy availability will decrease our use of old energy, you’re dreaming. More likely you’re lying to yourself.That idea is hard for people to swallow if they think humanity's best hope for survival is what they call "clean," "green," or "renewable" energy and learn that those sources aren't clean, green, or renewable. It matters to do the numbers. Mark does.For the record, I come to different strategies than Mark, but I agree with his starting point in the article. I don't think we should start from denying the numbers.Mark's home pageHis recent article in City Journal that prompted me to invite him back: We’ll Never Have an Energy TransitionHis appearance on the City Journal podcast on that piece: Green Energy Fallacies822. 822: Ryan Mandelbaum, part 1: Wildlife Is Everywhere, Including (especially) NYC (and where you live)
56:05||Ep. 822This recording went far beyond my usual preference for recording with guests in person when I can.We met in Prospect Park on one of the peak birding days of the year. Tons of people were out with powerful binoculars and cameras. You'll hear lots of birds chirping in th background and even people who knew Ryan coming up to talk to him.Nature is everywhere. We can enjoy it where we are when we want.You'll pick up how much fun we were having, wonder we were experiencing, and community we were connecting with. Nature makes such experiences happen.Have fun listening to us in nature watching and listening to birds and birders. Keep in mind: the point is only superficially birds and birders, as important as they are. The point is that you can access nature and create moments. It doesn't hurt to have an expert who wrote the book on local wildlife, but it's not necessary. As I mention in the recording, if you plan to visit New York City and want to explore, I'd recommend Wild NYC over nearly any guidebook.Ryan's home page, which links to his book Wild NYC: Experience the Amazing Nature in and around New York City821. 821: Rob Reed MD, part 1: Learning leadership transforms your life and work
01:01:02||Ep. 821Rob is one of my coaching clients. I asked him to be a guest here since many people perceive leadership and learning it as different than I mean. His work in medicine may not be at the center of sustainability, but I work in leadership, which I apply to sustainability. Listen to this episode to learn what changes to your life you can expect when you take my workshops. Listen to him for the full picture, but I think you'll hear profound and enduring personal growth, professional growth, improved relationships with spouse, children, and coworkers, promotion, security, connecting with your passions and realizing them, and more.It seems an overwhelming majority of people I talk to who haven't explicitly learned leadership associate leadership with the opposite of what I mean when I talk about leadership. They think of it as imposing authority, manipulating, convincing, telling people what to do, and the like.My definition of leadership is helping people do what they already want but haven't figured out how. Rob shares how he is learning and improving his leadership. People in sustainability can learn a lot from his fast and significant learning.820. 820: Andy Samuel CBE: From worry before the workshop to Fun and Community during and after
56:26||Ep. 820Are you thinking about acting more but concerned about feeling guilty or judged that you aren't doing enough? If so, you'll love this conversation. I feel honored to work with people with Andy's background and community, which you'll hear about in our conversation.Despite his working with prime ministers and across Europe and the world, and acting in many ways already in his life, he was also worried about feeling judged or guilty.As he learned more about the Workshop, especially listening to Lorna's episodes before and after she took the workshop, he went for it. The nerves he started with faded before the first session ended, as you'll hear.You'll also hear that instead, he ended up fun. Try to count how many times he says the word in the conversation. He shares about the rewards (also the work). One big benefit: He lives in a home he's rewilding, already surrounded by nature, but the workshop led him to appreciate more.As much as he appreciated nature more, it sounds like the people and community that came with the workshop created as much value as the other changes. Maybe also the connections what he learned helped him create and deepen outside the workshop.Make sure you listen to the end. Andy shares the most in the last 10 to 15 minutes. Hearing people share things like he did makes all the time, effort, and other resources creating the workshop worth it.When you're ready to join, here's the link.Andy's personal pageLorna's episodes that led him to expect not guilt but fun819. 819: A Course in Sustainability Leadership: 6: Our Brighter Future
11:44||Ep. 819This last recording in the series brings together the opportunities. We can't fix all the world's problems or to go back in time and change history. We can't change that people are already dying by the tens of millions annually from environmental problems, a number projected to increase by factors of ten or more.But we can do the best we can. The best we can is all we ever could do. Even if our culture weren't creating all these environmental problems, conflict would always exist. Restoring lost value to our culture that would restore stewardship would keep us from having to hurt innocent people, contributing to this suffering, just to live.Doing the best we can replaces despair, helplessness, hopelessness, anxiety, and all the internal conflict resulting from giving up on our values with meaning, purpose, love, and passion. People say action is the antidote to those things, but not just any action. The action must be effective, as part of a plan that leads to meaningful results.This series shows what action will work for you in the moment and for humanity in the long run, leading to global cultural change, restoring basic human values we've jettisoned in a fool's trade for what we think of as comfort and convenience but has become satisfying short-term, meaningless craving.This summary shows what you can do, on a different scale than avoiding straws. It means taking leadership roles to bring others with us. It's hard work that will take years, but you will love it. You will grow and you will help others around you grow, as well as your whole nation and species to grow from timidity and hoping for the best to restoring values of love, stewardship, family, community, and more.To follow up:The videos of this courseMy book, Sustainability SimplifiedThe Workshop and community818. 818: A Course in Sustainability Leadership: 5: The Celebrity Opportunities
30:37||Ep. 818Look up "Greatest of All Time" on Wikipedia and you'll find Muhammad Ali. This lesson shares how he went from being just the heavyweight champion of the world to the greatest of all time, transcending sport to becoming a statesman.Business people say "culture eats strategy for breakfast," and our culture, while paying lip service to sustainability, promotes and rewards polluting, depleting behavior. Celebrities play a major role in setting culture. When I tell people, "Taylor Swift is probably in an airplane right now," they know what I mean. No one disputes because even if she isn't flying literally that moment, she flies plenty.Yet billions of people want leadership. They want to follow people living by their values.This lesson shares the potential legacy available to any celebrity in an area of global demand that can last centuries to millennia. Those doing performative, ineffective things won't reach it, but that constraint doesn't mean celebrities have to act perfect.They don't have to act perfect.They only have to show they are doing their best.But they have to act genuinely and authentically, allowing their vulnerabilities to show.The Spodek Method enables them to automatically, which is why so many of my podcast guests return for multiple episodes.To follow up:The videos of this courseMy book, Sustainability SimplifiedThe Workshop and community