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The Lawfare Podcast
Rational Security: The “I AM an Object Lesson” Edition
This week, Scott sat down with Senior Editors Kate Klonick and Eric Columbus to talk through the week’s big national security news stories, including:
- “An Un-Airing of Grievances.” Since the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, some supporters of his—including several figures within the Trump administration—have actively sought to have individuals who have said critical or purportedly insensitive things about Kirk removed from their jobs or otherwise punished. This arguably came to a head after Jimmy Kimmel Live! was pulled from the air following statements by FCC Chairman Brendan Carr suggesting networks might face additional regulatory scrutiny for not addressing alleged misinformation about Kirk’s killer he purportedly put forward. And while Kimmel is now back on the air, several major local affiliates are refusing to air his show. How do these efforts comport with the First Amendment? And what do they mean for freedom of speech regardless?
- “You Can’t Spell Appeasement Without App.” After months of negotiations—during which it has held off on enforcing a statutorily mandated ban—the Trump administration has announced that it has reached a deal with China regarding the disposition of the social media platform TikTok and its operation in the United States. But the public details of the deal have been few and far between, and much more remains to be worked out. How close to a deal are the parties in actuality? And does it address the national security concerns motivating Congress’s ban in the first place?
- “Playing with White House Money.” The Trump administration has been rocked by two major corruption-related stories in the past week. First, the Justice Department is reported to have closed an investigation into White House immigration czar Tom Homan, who reportedly accepted $50,000 from undercover FBI agents prior to joining the administration on the understanding that he would help the donors gain access to the incoming Trump administration. And second, new details suggest that the recent deal to permit chip sales to the UAE were tied up in a variety of major cryptocurrency deals that enriched both the Trump Organization and others in the Trump administration—only the latest in a long history of suspect cryptocurrency transactions by Trump-related businesses. How big a problem are these transactions? And what do they tell us about the state of corruption on the second Trump administration?
In object lessons, Eric marked the Jewish New Year with a novel recommendation: “To Rise Again at a Decent Hour,” by Joshua Ferris, a midlife-crisis tale woven through Judaism, baseball, and dentistry—two subjects close to his heart, and one that isn’t. Scott, meanwhile, is back on the D.C. concert circuit and wants you to join him at Union Stage on October 14 to see Katie Pruitt, whose rock-infused Americana sound he thinks deserves a bigger audience. Kate rounded things out with a little blue hippo—specifically the souvenir version of the famous Egyptian figurine better known as “William,” a reminder of a past mother-daughter trip to Paris that involved butchering French while scouring the Louvre.
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Lawfare Daily: ‘The Russian General Staff’ with Oscar Jonsson
46:31|Oscar Jonsson, author of the new book “The Russian General Staff,” and an associate senior lecturer at Swedish Defence University, joins Lawfare Contributing Editor Justin Sherman to discuss the origins and evolution of the Russian General Staff, its role in the early Putin system amid reforms and power consolidation, and the General Staff’s role (or lack thereof) in Russia’s initial invasion of Ukraine in 2014. They also discuss the General Staff’s nominal command of Russia’s military intelligence agency, the GRU; Russia’s full-scale 2022 war on Ukraine; Russia’s evolving lessons from the war and what the General Staff gets right and wrong about modern warfare; and the future of Russian military thought and planning.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.
Lawfare Archive: Congressional Oversight, Post-Trump
46:12|From August 18, 2023: Listeners of this podcast are probably familiar with Molly Reynolds’s work on Congress. She’s a Senior Fellow at Brookings and a Senior Editor at Lawfare—and she has a new report out at Brookings, with Naomi Maehr, on “How partisan and policy dynamics shape congressional oversight in the post-Trump era.” Molly and her team have collected an enormous amount of data over the years about how Congress conducts oversight, and the report is a thought-provoking overview of what the legislature got up to during the 117th Congress. Today on the show, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic talked with Molly about her report and what patterns she’s found in oversight from the 116th Congress through today. For fans of the Jan. 6 Committee’s work, they also discussed that committee’s investigation and what it does and doesn’t tell us about congressional investigations going forward.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.
Lawfare Daily: Anthropic’s Safety Mission vs. Public-Company Pressure
54:19|Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a senior editor at Lawfare, speaks with Roberto Tallarita, assistant professor at Harvard Law School, about Anthropic's recently filed s-1 and its experiment in corporate governance. They discuss its current status as a public benefit corporation, its decision to create and empower a body of financially disinterested trustees, and its current unique class structure. Drawing on Tallarita’s research on stakeholder governance and unequal voting rights, the two also discuss what would make a commitment to safety precautions durable even when in stark tension with profit.Tallarita lays out some of his thoughts on what could come next for Anthropic in his recent article “Profit and Mission in Anthropic’s IPO.” Frazier also has recently written an analysis of Anthropic’s post-IPO governance.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.
Lawfare Live: Seduction, Intelligence Gathering, and the Allegations Against Nvidia CEO
26:05|On Monday, Nov. 9, at 3:30 p.m. ET, in light of explosive allegations about Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang, Lawfare Senior Editors Kate Klonick and Michael Feinberg sat down on Substack Live to discuss the role of seduction in intelligence gathering and how the public should think about the growing scandal.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.
Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, November 6
01:37:08|In a conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes will sit down with Senior Editors Molly Roberts, Roger Parloff, Anna Bower, and Eric Columbus to discuss the latest litigation over Trump administration policies. Topics include D.C. and Virginia’s suit to block construction of the triumphal arch, the Ahmed Soliman case, the politicization of the Justice Department, election litigation in California and Alaska, Trump’s defamation suit against the Wall Street Journal, and more.Find Lawfare’s litigation tracker here.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.
Lawfare Archive: Jed Purdy on Democratic Renewal
46:40|From November 17, 2022: American democracy might look healthier in light of last week's midterms, but there's still a lot of skepticism across the political spectrum about how it's doing. From the right, would-be authoritarians cast doubt on elections and on the very idea of liberal democracy. But even those who reject this authoritarian impulse are frequently uncomfortable with the messiness of democratic politics, instead preferring an anti-politics of technocratic decision-making.Jedediah Purdy, a law professor at Duke Law School, wants to defend democracy from its critics and its skeptics. In his new book, “Two Cheers for Politics: Why Democracy Is Flawed, Frightening—and Our Best Hope,” he argues that democratic renewal is both desirable and, most importantly, possible. Lawfare senior editor Alan Rozenshtein sat down with Jed to talk about the book, get his thoughts about the state of American democracy, and chart the path toward a healthier democratic future.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.
Lawfare Archive: Congressional Power and the Confirmation Process, with Mike Stern and Donald Sherman
44:52|From November 27, 2024: Molly Reynolds, Senior Fellow at Brookings and Senior Editor at Lawfare, sits down with Mike Stern, a lawyer specializing in congressional legal issues and former Senior Counsel to the U.S. House of Representatives, and Donald Sherman, Executive Director and Chief Counsel at CREW, to discuss the Senate confirmation process and expectations for congressional oversight in the 119th Congress. They discuss the tools available to the Senate now and after the start of the new Congress in January, legal questions related to President-elect Trump’s potential plans for recess appointments, and what issues related to congressional oversight to watch next year.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.
Lawfare Daily: The President’s Hand in Russia’s Covert Action
43:55|In this episode, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Lawfare Public Service Fellow Julia Curlee to discuss her new essay, “The Unhidden Hand.” The essay judges Russia’s 2016 election interference by the standards the intelligence profession uses for covert action.Covert operations usually pay off early and then fade. They discuss why this one did the opposite: It was exposed before the votes were counted, yet Moscow’s gains have grown over the decade since, largely because of the man Russia helped elect. They also cover the dismantling of U.S. defenses against foreign election interference, the purge of the analysts and investigators who exposed the operation, and what Congress could do to build election defenses that no president can switch off.For further reading, see:Julia Curlee, “The Unhidden Hand,” LawfareTo receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.
Rational Security: The “Riding the Blue Wave Special Election" Edition
01:26:30|This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Managing Editor Tyler McBrien and Senior Editor Eric Columbus; and Contributing Editor and Vice President of Research, Security and Defense at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs Ariane Tabatabai to talk through the week’s big international news stories, including:“The Subpoena Is Coming From Inside the House.” Democrats scored a historic victory in yesterday’s midterm elections, securing control of both the House and Senate by a healthy (but not filibuster-proof) margin that is widely seen as a direct rebuke of the Trump administration. How will a Democratic agenda impact President Trump’s policy agenda over his last two years in office? Which topics are likely to be the clearest targets of oversight and other measures? And how effective are these measures likely to be in pressuring him to change his tack?“Lame Duck and Cover.” The most significant issue in this week’s elections was undoubtedly President Trump’s decision to initiate the Iran War, and the subsequent impact it has had on the global economy. Yet Trump and his advisors have not been shy about their intent to escalate the war with Iran once again after the election, and have arguably already done so through a series of secret strikes that only became public the day of the midterm elections. What limits does a Democratic congress put on Trump’s war-fighting capabilities? And how much further will Trump be able to pursue the war now that he will no longer have a compliant Congress?“2028 Days Later.” With the midterms over, the race for 2028 is about to begin in earnest. Does this most recent election give any insight into which national security issues are likely to be a major concern in the next presidential race? And what do the dynamics of the midterms tell us about how those issues will shape – and be shaped by – the primaries and general election to follow?In object lessons, Tyler recommends the new album, "No Bad Memories," by The Avalanches. Ari is blown away by the set design and acting in the stage play, "Stranger Things: The First Shadow." Scott is listening to the new revival of the FiveThirtyEight Politics podcast, called "Still Counting." And Eric has discovered the classical music streaming service IDAGIO.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.